<p>if you look closely at admit rates at public or private, the numbers to ivys are not that different. private school my child goes to sends one or two to ivy a year. most of the publics send the same but a few more many go because of sports. going to private is not to get into an ivy but to give your child either the religious background you support or the security that you want. most know that the private school is not an auto to an ivy. you can't fake IQ or make 1600s if you don't have the ability. and many think that going to a private can actually hurt your chances with an ivy because it makes you seem too sheltered or not in the real world.</p>
<p>I know a number of graduates of elite private prep schools, and I do think that it is a huge advantage in admissions. I do not have objective data, but my personal observation. I am not referring to public magnets, but elite private prep schools (you know, the $30,000/year+ variety of high school).</p>
<p>
[quote]
The reason is that selective colleges take only a few students from each school. A student with a 2200 SAT score is not going to stand out at a high school with several 2300s, but will be at the top of Yale's list in a school that has only one or two seniors who score over 2100. (The top score is now 2400.)
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imo, it all depends. If your not so competitive HS is in a region/state, where they have several competitive HSs, then chances are the top college adcoms don't not even look at your school. But if its in a region/state all with similar level, then the claim may be true.</p>
<p>The following excerpts from previous posts sum up my own view, based on similar experiences and observations as that of JHS.</p>
<p>"On the other hand, if one is choosing to attend a highly selective HS for the extraordinary opportunities it offers, and the ability to be with a critical mass of peers, then there is no contest. And, I will posit, that those opportunities and the friendly competition may take a student far, far beyond what he/she could have achieved at the local HS."</p>
<p>"If one goes to a selective HS, the highly selective colleges are far more likely to know about that school, what kinds of kids attend the selective program, and <em>how those accepted students from that school will fare at their college.</em> To me, that's the key distinguishing point."</p>
<p>"...there are few, if any students, at any of the great schools who could switch to a merely good school and effortlessly claim the top slot, and the really standout students at any of the schools would stand out at any of the others. If anything, the admissions advantage at the elite schools is seen not at the top of the class, but more towards the middle."</p>
<p>So, the 3 key points, overlooked by merely a "bottom line" view, are:</p>
<p>(1) Intellectual preparation for college, and secondarily for careers (not to mention the intrinsic, stand-alone benefits of a great high school education) is superior, as a whole, at an excellent ("competitive") private school, assuming the advantage of that environment is maximized by the student. Additionally, those advantages may not be obvious initially, but will tend to stand out clearly as the student matures.</p>
<p>(2) Extraordinary students will stand out anywhere, showing <em>qualitatively</em> different attributes than their peers, whether those peers are at competitive privates with high GPA clusters, or whether those peers are at humbler institutions.</p>
<p>(3) The advantage of a competitive private for the student in the 3.2 - 3.7 range is generally underestimated. This range of students tend to get passed over at "unknown" schools, but noticed by at least some outstanding, selective colleges. If your goal is to attend a highly selective college & you are not HYP-competitive, your best chance of a great PRIVATE education is to enroll in an excellent, visible private high school.</p>
<p>(However, obviously great educations are abundant in many public colleges and some less visible privates.)</p>
<p>I lied that there were only 3 points.;). </p>
<p>Point 4, also not to be underestimated:</p>
<p>(4) Intellectual growth, & therefore preparation for college performance (not to mention acceptance), is maximized in intellectually rich, challenging environments. Again, the rare student will "over-achieve" anywhere; whereas the 3.2 - 3.7 student (at the least) will tend to achieve immeasurably more cognitive growth at a great private WITH CHALLENGING PEERS than at a more ability-diverse public. (Sorry, can't access italics here.)</p>
<p>"I would be really surprised if you could convincingly support the proposition that Harvard is accepting kids from normal suburban high schools who are measurably inferior to students not accepted from Thomas Jefferson."</p>
<p>As for Harvard and the like, this is probably correct. But I do wonder what effect relative GPA and class rank have on schools that are a notch below or lower. If you are jockeying for USNWR positioning (and let's be honest, they all are), a higher GPA or class rank looks pretty attractive, especially if the SAT/ACT falls into an adequate range.</p>
<p>I'm in Texas so the argument about we could be in the top 10% if we went to another school comes up all the time. However, I haven't seen any parents actually moving to other schools or districts because of this. (I have seen parents moving to other schools so their child could get more time on sports teams though.) My D attends a good private school where 100% of students are college-bound. However, very few of the students want to leave the town or the state so I am hoping the fact that she does want to leave the state will work to her advantage with college decisions. My younger son goes to a public school which I would consider the second best school in the district. I saw too many kids attending the wealthiest, highest-rating school who couldn't deal with the social and academic pressures falling into problems with alcohol, drugs, older boyfriends, etc. As far as sports, fine arts and other activities the "second-best" school is great and my son seems to be blossoming in the friendly caring environment. Finding a "good fit" high school for the kids was more important to me I guess than worrying about what school will get them into the best college. It will be interesting to see if they have any regrets about it when they get their college decisions next year and in three years.</p>
<p>I love epiphany's summary, but want to adapt it to apply to great, competitive PUBLIC schools as well.</p>
<p>W/re point (1): There are great high school educations available at some public schools, too. Depending on a student's individual characteristics, he or she may have a better shot at taking advantage of opportunities at a specific public vs. a specific private school.</p>
<p>W/re point (3): In general, I agree with this. However, I would note that part of the reason for this is that the elite private schools drive their students in this direction. At my kids' public school, most of the "B" students simply didn't think in terms of selective colleges, and pointed at second- and third-tier in-state public colleges. The few whose background and sophistication led them to apply to the types of colleges, especially excellent but less well-known LACs, that are popular with the private school kids, were generally pretty successful at getting admitted and getting appropriate aid. (I'm talking here about schools like Macalaster, Hamilton, Beloit, Lawrence, Bates, Ursinus.) But the drive had to come from them. One of the private-school advantages for this type of student is that the spirit of the place carries them in this direction whether they want it or not.</p>
<p>(4) Again, many public schools provide a rich, challenging environment with challenging peers. There may well be important differences, and trade-offs in both directions. But private schools do not have exclusivity on challenging educations.</p>
<p>I agree with those who have posted that college placement record is not the most important factor in deciding whether to go to a particular high school, but realistically it is a factor. I don't have the data to assess the validity of the article's thesis on a nationwide basis, but I would question it in the context of the top NYC private schools. My son applied to several of them last year, and in each case, the school was able to provide full college placement data to applicants. At the school my son is now attending, we saw data from the graduating class of 2006 and literally over half the class went on to Ivy League schools (one more than 50% to be precise). Many of the remaining 50% went on to other colleges that are generally grouped with the "most selective." The concentration of students going to Ivy League schools actually concerned me a bit - I would have been more comfortable with a broader distribution - but there's no doubt that it was impressive.</p>
<p>With all of that said, my son is now enjoying an absolutely terrific education and is not thinking about college at all (and hopefully won't before junior year).</p>