<p>AP stats is a viable alternative to the Calc. My liberal arts kids did that one, my math focus one did the calc. All had good results in getting into the colleges they wanted.</p>
<p>I see this problem a lot with lopsided boys–they’ll take AP science and math courses, but take regular English and history courses.</p>
<p>That’s a good idea about the Stats - I’ll mention it to her. I take it that it’s easier than AP Calc. ?</p>
<p>"I see this problem a lot with lopsided boys–they’ll take AP science and math courses, but take regular English and history courses. "</p>
<p>(how do I quote someone?) Yes, well that would be my 9th grade son! I haven’t even started posting about him yet. At this point, I’m just hoping he’s college bound - period.</p>
<p>It was our experience that big state universities were much more numbers-driven (probably due to the sheer number of applicants) and really focused on UNWEIGHTED GPAs, so students who took harder classes but only got Bs were actually at a disadvantage versus students who took easier courses and got As. It seemed that the more selective private schools were the ones that looked more closely at the supposed rigor of the student’s high school schedule and how many AP classes were taken.</p>
<p>So for UM, perhaps your daughter would be best served by taking the classes she will do well in (“regular” science classes and AP Stats).</p>
<p>
And a majority of those are athletes, minorities, or have something else going for them. A 3.6 is NOT competitive for Umich. My son’s girlfriend had a 4.0 and worried about getting in.</p>
<p>Another recommendation is apply early. Very early. Like in September.</p>
<p>“And a majority of those are athletes, minorities, or have something else going for them”</p>
<p>Yes, we know. Unfortunately, it’s extra hard for a middle-class white girl from the burbs to get in. Now the 3.6 she’s getting is her Cumulative GPA, this year it’s closer to 3.75 and I just read that U of M only really care about sophmore and junior year gpa’s. Not sure if that’s true but if it is, that would help. She kind of bombed out on several of her finals last year and didn’t do as well as she hoped for. </p>
<p>I guess, it’s her call whether she wants to step up her game and actually be competive for MI. She gives everything 90-100% effort, but I pointed out to her if she has MI in mind, then she’d better give it 110%!</p>
<p>Honestly though, I have to wonder if she wants to be a teacher - does MI, State, Grand Valley etc. really matter?</p>
<p>Umich calculates her GPA like this: take only academic classes during sophomore and junior year. No pluses or minuses. That’s her Umich GPA. </p>
<p>Honestly? I don’t think it much matters where she graduates from to be a teacher. Keep Oakland University in mind too. But if she wants to go to UMich for whatever reason, then encourage her to try. It certainly can’t do any harm.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be so narrowly focused on just UM. She will likely apply to different schools, each with their own perspective about this. I recommend she take a few AP courses in areas of strength, and regular or honors level classes where she is not as strong. Taking a challenging course load does not mean you have to take every AP class the school offers. </p>
<p>Many schools say they look for a rigorous course load, and I think that’s true. However, that’s not judged simply by the number of AP classes. It’s also judged by the type of classes selected. In other words, 4 years of core subjects versus basket weaving and oragami, etc. If she sticks with a nice college prep core with a few AP classes in the mix, and gets good grades, she should be fine. It’s a big mistake to ruin her GPA trying to impress adcoms, who, despite what they say, can really be unforgiving if a student only achieves mediocre results, even in the toughest classes. I have seen kids miss out on scholarships getting lower grades in tougher classes, that were not their areas of strength, versus kids with higher grades in similar, but non AP classes. </p>
<p>Unless, the student just loved the subject matter, I wouldn’t advise anyone to take an AP class where there was a significant chance of finishing with less than a B. And unless they demonstrated some prior ability to handle it, I also wouldn’t advise them to load up on a bunch of AP classes at once. Some people can handle that - good for them. Others, are taking a big and unnecessary gamble. It’s not worth the anxiety and misery, and if the grades don’t pan out, the purpose of doing it in the first place will also completely backfire. </p>
<p>Students shouldn’t just thow themselves into such situations before they really take a good personal inventory of their interests and abilities. Sometimes students blindly listen to the adcoms at their own peril.</p>
<p>3bm103- thank you for the information. My husband is actually hoping for her to go to Oakland since we live in the area and she could live at home and ride her bike there. But she’s absolutely determined to get away from us! </p>
<p>FLVADAD - thank you for the good advice. I really agree with all that you say.</p>
<p>To add to this thread, how about taking no fun classes, things you’re interested in (choir, orchestra, etc.) to get a higher GPA. Because those classes water them down.</p>
<p>“I believe that the University of Michigan admits students to specific majors, so the applicants are likely to be compared with students in the same or similar fields.”</p>
<p>That’s absolutely false. </p>
<p>UMich no longer recalculates GPAs, they take what the high school sends them (they started that this year). I don’t know if that helps but take that for what it’s worth.</p>
<p>Coffeelover - For perspective, the only science AP I’ve ever taken is AP Computer Science. I took four years of band as a non-music major/minor–qualified for All-State, which was my primary motivation, but did not submit a supplemental CD–and also had zero history APs (had the chance to take one but I hate US history). Results: rejected from Yale, accepted to Swarthmore. I think tippy-top private LACs are willing to look at course rigor holistically (I did get the “most rigorous” designation, but at my school that is given solely on # of APs and disregards breadth).</p>
<p>In your case, UM is a clear and excellent choice AND is known for being numbers-focused.</p>
<p>FindAplace made a good point. You should ask your GC how they will fill out the form regarding difficulty of class schedule. (most demanding, above average, average or below average).</p>
<p>You are correct that there is no consensus in this. We’ve only been through this once so far, but I believe that besides being told repeatedly that strength of schedule was really really important, I think many colleges look at the GPA first.</p>
<p>Close friend with kids at really competitive NJ high school kept very close track as her oldest was coming up to senior year of hs. This is a community where everyone knew everyone’s stats and where they were applying. In looking carefully at where kids from their school got in, she concluded the strength of schedule was not nearly as important as they’d been led to believe.</p>
<p>OP
Didn’t read all replies<br>
Here’s my 2 cents…</p>
<p>There are kids at our students school with higher GPAs who have only taken the regular courses, and few honors,and some even are in the top 10% because they have A+ in classes whereas Bs in Honors are wieghted lowers…</p>
<p>that said</p>
<p>I would advise taking Honors/AP is the classes that are her passion and regular in classes that aren’t —
For example due to heavy hw and sports issues in our house–our student takes AP in Chem, Calc, foreign language and English and regular history as our student does not have time for extra stuff and generally hates the “boring” history but loves Physics for example…</p>
<p>so if its a matter of time, interest and ability I think having a great grade in a regular xyz class is better than your student taking a wide variety of APs and hating them…</p>
<p>fwiw our student makes As and Bs in the APs and we were at one of the best schools in the country last yr and the AdCom said that a B in an AP is better than the A in the regular every day.</p>
<p>Hope that helps…good luck choosing whats best for your student and family ;o)</p>
<p>QK makes the point that I was going to make - UMich just changed the way they look at GPA. My son was waitlisted last year and went the AP route - 9 APs with a 3.5 unweighted gpa. Unfortunately he had a 3.95 freshman year which was thrown out under the old system so his UMich recalculted gpa was much lower than 3.5 which put him out of range (he was also OOS which is tougher). With the new system he may have had a chance! His sister had similar stats but not such a disparity with freshman grades and was accepted at UMich 3 years ago. </p>
<p>[Office</a> of Undergraduate Admissions: GPA Recalculation FAQs](<a href=“http://www.admissions.umich.edu/gpa/]Office”>http://www.admissions.umich.edu/gpa/)</p>
<p>From my experience with two AP kids (9 and 10 AP classes), I think 4 APs with better grades is much more marketable. Getting the “most rigourous” checkmark at my kids school required 7 AP/IBs or IB diploma and most of the class got that designation - you should ask how your school determines it. We are now back in Michigan and my youngest will probably only take 2-3 APs but is making all As. As much as the schools tell kids to take challenging classes I think it’s foolish to take classes in subjects you dont even like. Take classes that reflect your interests AND challenge you as much as the school offers. Build a theme of coursework that leads to your intended major (if you have an idea of what that might be!)</p>
<p>OP, as someone who got deferred from UM this year w/ a 3.73, I would strongly recommend you telling your daughter not to take those AP classes I she doesn’t think she can get at least an A- (Which, as others have pointed out, no longer counts as an A).</p>
<p>I spoke with my reviewing counselor on the phone after I found out I got deferred; she told me that though I had clearly taken one of the most rigorous schedules possible for anyone, “an accepted student typically has more As than you do.” She suggested that I should have taken less difficult classes, since my test scores, recs, ec’s, etc. were all more than good enough to get me admitted.</p>
<p>Bottom line: if UM is your daughter’s first choice, take the easier class. Best of luck to you both.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the comments made about UMich and APs. According to their latest published common data set, the MOST weighted criteria for admission is class rigor. That’s more than GPA or scores (both of which are rated as important). <a href=“http://sitemaker.umich.edu/obpinfo/files/umaa_cds2010.pdf[/url]”>http://sitemaker.umich.edu/obpinfo/files/umaa_cds2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>^Comments thus far have been mostly anecdotal or based on Michigan’s old point system, which emphasizes GPA over rigor. Neither of those sources are particularly reliable, but neither is what the college “reports” as the most important criteria–who’s going to know any different, and what determines importance anyway?</p>
<p>Not to play devil’s advocate or anything… but what if your D decides she doesn’t want to be a music teacher? Or wants to be a teacher but not music? Or wants to work as an entertainment lawyer making deals for record companies? Or wants an MBA with an eye towards managing a performing arts complex?</p>
<p>I think it’s great to have a kid with focus. And I think it’s great when that focus suggests a college which excites the kid. But the number of 50 year olds who end up doing what they thought they’d be doing junior year of HS is a surprisingly small one. Does anyone reading this thread make a living doing what they told their parents they wanted to do when they were 16 or 17?</p>
<p>I surely do not.</p>
<p>So understanding that this is a college admissions board- I still think the advice to guide your HS kid to challenge herself (within reason), to work hard (within reason) and to keep her eyes and options open is the right course of action. AP Stats is a fine substitute for AP Calc; taking no math at all is bad advice. Taking a mix of “most rigorous” and “less rigorous” is a fine option if indeed your D is challenged and working herself hard- watering down her schedule for the sake of preserving the GPA sounds like bad advice to me.</p>
<p>And whether she becomes a music teacher or not, she will thank you down the road for encouraging her to do her best and challenge herself, whatever the grade or GPA.</p>