<p>H and I are proud decal displayers (is that a word?). Prestige has nothing to do with it. Our kids ran far away from home for college, contrary to most kids around here who stay in state. I'm trying to educate the locals, one car passing at a time. One decal is a known rah-rah big-name school, the other, a top-notch LAC that gets the "huh?" look. I don't sport my S's law school sticker cuz I don't want damage done to the car. :o</p>
<p>ctnjpamom,</p>
<p>Well, I am smart and capable. :) But before this could ever be proved through my performance 'on the job,' it was always reasonably easy for me to get an interview, get a chance, get the benefit of the doubt-- and I attribute that ease to my college's good reputation. </p>
<p>Granted, as EK points out, not everyone (especially on west coast) has heard of Brown or Smith, but I began my working life in New York, where the name was generally very well known and did indeed open many doors. That was my experience. I wasn't trying to be cocky-- just reporting that the prestige of a place is not irrelevant, it does pay some dividends. </p>
<p>That said, I did not pick my school for the prestige at all. I came from the west coast and very few people were aware of Brown in California in the 1970s. I picked it because I wanted the open curriculum and I really liked the people I had met who were associated with the school. I picked it for fit.</p>
<p>The "prestige" schools on my D's list are also not generally well known in our area as they are all small Liberal Arts Colleges on the opposite coast. I view them as prestigious because they have high academic standards and long histories of excellence. I guess prestige is pretty much in the eye of the beholder.</p>
<p>SBmom, I didn't think you were being cocky, just factually descriptive. My school was in the HYPM group and, fair or not, I always got the interview, and if I got the interview, I was always offered the job over other applicants; and this extended into volunteer work and many other areas, even social. I do not fault the people who treated me this way; they weren't being arrogant snobs, assuming that only HYPM etc. people were smart - but they did respond and it opened many, many doors. Still does.</p>
<p>I am not saying it's right and in fact, I VERY rarely say where I went to school (and I have no decals, sweatshirts etc), but once it gets out, there is no denying that I was looked at in a different way. It wasn't the "name" - it was the assumption that someone who not only could get in but <em>graduate</em> must have had <em>something</em> going for them. That said, i know a lot of jerks who went to my school and a lot of very fine people who never went to college at all.</p>
<p>Thanks nedad. </p>
<p>I agree with your second point as well. One of my closest friends never went to college at all-- and she is incredibly smart and capable. I mentored her and brought her into my company and everyone is thrilled with her. </p>
<p>I don't have a decal or sweatshirt either. I also rarely mention my college in "real life;" on CC it is relevant to the discussion, so I am more forward with the info.</p>
<p><<i always="" got="" the="" interview,="" and="" if="" i="" was="" offered="" job="" over="" other="" applicants;="" this="" extended="" into="" volunteer="" work="" many="" areas,="" even="" social.="" do="" not="" fault="" people="" who="" treated="" me="" way;="" they="" weren't="" being="" arrogant="" snobs,="" assuming="" that="" only="" hypm="" etc.="" were="" smart="" -="" but="" did="" respond="" it="" opened="" many,="" doors.="" still="" does.="">></i></p><i always="" got="" the="" interview,="" and="" if="" i="" was="" offered="" job="" over="" other="" applicants;="" this="" extended="" into="" volunteer="" work="" many="" areas,="" even="" social.="" do="" not="" fault="" people="" who="" treated="" me="" way;="" they="" weren't="" being="" arrogant="" snobs,="" assuming="" that="" only="" hypm="" etc.="" were="" smart="" -="" but="" did="" respond="" it="" opened="" many,="" doors.="" still="" does.="">
<p>Well, if this is true, does it ever bother you that doors were not opened for you, the accomplished person, the nice person, the smart person - only for you, the ivy graduate? The "social" comment really freaks me out - just the thought of someone wanting to be my friend, much less partner or spouse b/c of where I went to college is disturbing.</p>
<p>Anyway, I guess I have always had more respect for people who open their own doors. Maybe that sounds too harsh, could be a reflection of my age and growing up as the child of Depression-era parents. The whole entitlement thing is so far off my radar that I have no capacity to understand it.</p>
</i>
<p>
[quote]
My school was in the HYPM group and, fair or not, I always got the interview, and if I got the interview, I was always offered the job over other applicants
[/quote]
That was my experience too, with the Princeton line on my resume. I am OK with wanting that for my daughter.</p>
<p>What I want for my daughter I can always make my peace with. The status-seeking that I am trying to break is when I, as a mother, am looking for personal status because I take credit for my D getting into a prestige school. And this is a confession, I struggle. But thinking about this thread this morning, I remembered SBMom also saying: </p>
<p>
[quote]
If she was deferred at Harvard she will surely have many excellent choices.
[/quote]
It dawned on me that what I was really confessing to was that when my D was deferred I lost some of the pride I have felt in her for her academic and other achievements. And that is unforgiveable to me. So thank you SBMom, because I actually feel better, I remember, I am proud of her for where she is now, and a deferral from Harvard is an honor. Once I get that out of the way I also can focus on the key point - all of us are more than where we went to school.</p>
<p>Hmmm, College Confidential as the antibiotic for decal fever. Not what I expected.</p>
<p>ctnjpamom,</p>
<p>How is it not 'opening your own doors' if you've gained admission to an excellent school and graduated from it? </p>
<p>"Ivy Graduate" implies accomplished & smart (and "nice" or "not nice' comes across rather rapidly in person.)</p>
<p>I think nedad was refering to 'social' advantages in a larger way, like in networking & meeting people via alumni connections, not that people choose to be your friend or date you because of your college.</p>
<p>On the topic of "nice": your tone is not very nice-- you seem to begrudge people the advantages that they may experience because they have attended a prestigious school.</p>
<p>I agree that entitlement is obnoxious-- but so is implying that Ivy Grads don't earn their way in through intelligence, drive, and hard work. The number of kids who coast in on family connections and don't deserve to be at these schools is minuscule. (Yes, being able to pay the tuition does favor some kids from well-off families, but this is the case at any private school.) The reputation of the school would not be sustained for very long if the grads didn't live up it.</p>
<p>Many deserving disadvantaged kids get major scholarships at these institutions. Should these 'bootstrap' kids not be able to reap the rewards of respect and esteem that are asociated with their school's name?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The "social" comment really freaks me out - just the thought of someone wanting to be my friend, much less partner or spouse b/c of where I went to college is disturbing.
[/quote]
Note that I never said that I made friends, or got my spouse, because of my degree. I have friends from all walks of life, from high school dropouts to ...well, go as far as you like. By social situations, I meant in the nonbusiness world - i.e. getting on certain volunteer boards, chairing certain committees, etc. These were most CERTAINLY not SIMPLY because of the degree - I had to have had the proven track record, which I did.</p>
<p>SBmom - thanks, you were right about what I meant by "social."</p>
<p>
[quote]
Maybe that sounds too harsh, could be a reflection of my age and growing up as the child of Depression-era parents. The whole entitlement thing is so far off my radar that I have no capacity to understand it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My parents came over on the boat to Ellis Island, grew up in the 30s, and never went to college. I earned my way into the Ivy League, and I did the work through two graduate degrees with no help from anyone, and no money other than what I earned or finagled for myself.</p>
<p>You presume way too much about what you imagine is "entitlement."</p>
<p>Uh, does any one else besides us do this?--Our kids wear the shirts and such of schools that no one in their immediate family attends/attended (specifically, they have Harvard, MIT and University of Iowa shirts they wear--hubby likes to pick these things up on business trips). Are we committing a serious faux pas here? Also had a St. Olaf decal in the window for several months. It was one of the schools S was thinking about, but ended up somewhere else. And I kind of would like a where the h** is Grinnell shirt, myself. (I really like the school and want one of my kids to go there--I have three more chances). . .</p>
<p>My favorite tee shirt was Haverford's: "We haven't heard of you either." :)</p>
<p>SBmom--Now I want one of those too!</p>
<p><<you presume="" way="" too="" much="" about="" what="" you="" imagine="" is="" "entitlement."="">></you></p>
<p>I think entitlement pops up when you are given preference for jobs, "social" opportunities, etc. I didn't imagine it; I did however take your word that it occurs.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>By social situations, I meant in the nonbusiness world - i.e. getting on certain volunteer boards, chairing certain committees>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I guess I got confused then because you had already referred to volunteer opportunities. "I was always offered the job over other applicants; and this extended into volunteer work and many other areas, even social." </p>
<p><<my parents="" came="" over="" on="" the="" boat="" to="" ellis="" island,="" grew="" up="" in="" 30s,="" and="" never="" went="" college.="" i="" earned="" my="" way="" into="" ivy="" league,="" did="" work="" through="" two="" graduate="" degrees="" with="" no="" help="" from="" anyone,="" money="" other="" than="" what="" or="" finagled="" for="" myself.="">></my></p>
<p>But doesn't it occur to you that maybe that's what opens doors, that it is your own hard work and accomplishment, not the ivy degree? Maybe I am not being clear enough. And maybe it's none of my business. But, are children of ivy grads given that idea - that it is the ivy degree, not their own hard work and accomplishment, that will open doors for them?</p>
<p><<"Ivy Graduate" implies accomplished & smart >></p>
<p>Maybe. It can also imply a whole lot of other things, depending on who is doing the implying. </p>
<p><<on the="" topic="" of="" "nice":="" your="" tone="" is="" not="" very="" nice--="" you="" seem="" to="" begrudge="" people="" advantages="" that="" they="" may="" experience="" because="" have="" attended="" a="" prestigious="" school.="">></on></p>
<p>Do you feel entitled to advantages because you attended a "prestigious" school?</p>
<p>Sorry ctnjpamom, re:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess I got confused then because you had already referred to volunteer opportunities. "I was always offered the job over other applicants; and this extended into volunteer work and many other areas, even social."
[/quote]
I was totally babbling and not making myself clear. I've been partly on and off CC all day because I am dealing with a family disaster...my widowed mother fell and had surgery yesterday, and there are a billion and one problems about where she can go after the hospital, the insurance, etc. I am using CC as self-medication....sitting by the phone and waiting for insurance companies, doctors, social workers, physician assistants etc to call me back...and doing it all long distance. She's 87 and the drugs are making her paranoid and delusional. Sigh.</p>
<p>So yes, I wasn't clear at all. I meant, as I said, various forms of social networking (for boards, charity events etc), not for friends or spouses. Sorry.</p>
<p><<my widowed="" mother="" fell="" and="" had="" surgery="" yesterday,="" there="" are="" a="" billion="" one="" problems="" about="" where="" she="" can="" go="" after="" the="" hospital,="" insurance,="" etc.="" i="" am="" using="" cc="" as="" self-medication="">></my></p>
<p>I hope your mother recovers well and I hope I didn't add to your stress.</p>
<p>No, no, ctnjpamom, and I hope I did not imply that you did. I suspect it is the beginning of the end, though....</p>
<p>I DO, BTW, totally understand your point about the children of Ivy grads. And I have seen many rich, privileged kids who, as the saying goes, "were born on third base and patted themselves on the back for having hit a triple!"</p>
<p>CTnjpamom - the above post is from nedad, IMed to me...apparently his family problems are worse than he thought....I expect some very bad news from him tonight....</p>
<p>Nedad, I am sorry to read about your problems. Wishing you the best.</p>
<p>Nedad:</p>
<p>I can well understand discussing college admissions as a way of coping with such a very difficult situation. My best wishes and sympathy.</p>