Without knowing your financial circumstances it is hard to ascertain whether schools will be what you personally deem expensive or affordable. Financial need if that is your case could be a significant portion of the money you receive at Miami, NYU, USC, etc. if admitted. Additionally, merit will typically be a piece of the package to meet that need and note in most instances will not sit in top to lower your family contribution.
Generally at Berklee the top kids coming in get the money and the top performers will get the best enesembles and opportunities. Would seem for a kid not getting merit and also not getting top opportunities (if those both occur) Berklee wouldnât be the same experience as the kid who is in the spotlight thereâŠ
@compmom, so well said. I like the way you emphasized the evolution of the decision process (that continues to evolve!). My eldest D had an incredible experience at Vassar, and I agree that multi-faceted singers and certain instrumentalists can thrive in a liberal arts environment. I remember now that my youngest didnât really decide on a conservatory until right before senior year. And he ultimately chose a very diverse program.
And @ClarinetDad16, Iâve heard (not that I necessarily agree!) some folks say here in the Boston area that, if you donât get any merit money at Berklee, you shouldnât go. That the merit award is predictive of the experience youâll have.
@compmom agree with Drummergirl. Very well said. And youâre right, I shouldnât sway her. Honestly even if I wanted to I donât think I could. She is very headstrong and will do what she thinks she needs to do. Ultimately, she wants to write and perform her own music. I think this summer at Berklee will be a great opportunity for her to learn, spread her wings and figure it out. Donât get me wrong, she loves jazz voice. But she hadnât planned really seriously to pursue it as a major until we visited Frost. I think professors can sway kids more than anyone else and I do think it could be a great fit for her to do that and minor in CAM if she is admitted there and decides on UM as her choice.
As for financial âaidâ, we wonât get a dime. I mentioned before that we have already been down that road with my son currently in college. We filled out FAFSA and were basically told we should be paying the full amount for him (which we are). Maybe itâs different for more expensive schools? Is that the case does anyone know? I have been going through this process thinking that merit aid (not a strategy but a reality) will be our only option for her to attend one of these schools. The bottom line is, we have a nice chunk of money saved for both kids for college but no where near enough to foot the bill for 65K/year for D. ANd student loans are not an option. I will not have her graduate with a BM and student debt. That makes zero sense to me financially. I know people do it, we just are not willing. So either merit aid happens or she has to adjust her college goals. My feeling is, if she is good enough to make it professionally, she will get merit aid. If she doesn;t get any, then maybe a music career isnât in the cards.
Yes I totally agree with you @drummergirl. I think we will know more in August after D auditions at the end of the 5 week. If she isnât offered any $$ then she can decide to perhaps audition again in the fall and see if she gets some. If not, Berklee is most certainly off the list.
@SpartanDrew, I think youâre striking a great balance between encouragement and realism! Just want to add that merit awards, or the lack of, arenât always an indication of potential etc. As you see on this site, some programs (many stand-alone conservatories) are not known to give much at all. We found the awards varied significantly. So donât take what I said about Berklee and apply it to every school.
thanks @drummergirl. I agree with you. D does not plan to apply to a conservatory. And I know what you mean because as I understand it, NYU doesnât give really ANY merit aid whatsoever and Frost apparently gives merit to anyone accepted there. We will just have to balance all of that decision wise once we cross that path and get more information.
Itâs kind of nice in that we will have some of our first information as early as August once D auditions at Berklee. They announce the scholarship winners right away at the âBlowout Concertâ at the end of the program.
My D was stuck bx âgenresâ as well. We did the following:
She pursued her interest in MT/acting. She researched schools, practiced etc. She wanted to âperformâ not study music (which was wrong-headed but she was young).
I told her that I thought she should audition at a couple of VP programsâŠbased on what her music teachers were saying. When she sang MT and Art Songs it was obvious to me where her talent was.
Her desire to audition for MT/acting limited where she could audition for VP. So we went forward following her MT/acting lead with me slipping a few VP inâŠsince I was PAYING for it all.
But in the end, since she insisted on programs where she could do some theater and MT (even just taking classes), I think she ended up in the right VP program. During grad school, she has made more money and been hired more consistently in theater (as her voice is STILL developingâŠannoying). She was just offered a job yesterday (!) for next year with a theater that does community outreach that is full timeâŠand will allow her to start auditioning for opera program next fall. But she has a job starting Sept!!! and 2 summer festivals.
SoâŠmaybe she knew something about herself as an artistâŠIâm glad I didnât look at it as an either/or (not that I had a choice with her fiercely âadvocatingâ for herself under my roof - honestly I gave in to keep the peace).
I would let her look at BOTH. You will LEARN A TON over the next 12 months. If she has a true desire to composeâŠI wouldnât shut it downâŠlet the audition process or a teacher do that for you. My D finally decided to do VP based on one teacher reaching out to her and then some long discussion with her private and high school music teachers. Also seeing the other students auditioning and strengths and weaknesses really were informative.
I hope this helps!
Oh man @bridgenail am I ever walking in your shoes right now! GREAT GREAT advice and thank you! For sure my intention is definitely not an âeither/orâ rather letâs find a place for both. Berklee and Frost both fit the bill for that. I would never have her go somewhere for just jazz voice without songwriting as well (hence why conservatories are off the table unless thereâs one out there with songwriting that Iâm unaware of).
Right not I feel her talent lies more in jazz voice since she has had several national recognition feathers in her cap and really nothing so far for any of her songs. And yes, she is young and thinks she knows everything at the moment. Keeping the peace is also a challenge with a moody, artsy, headstrong teenager. ACK!
I am confused by your saying she is not applying to conservatories. I think of Berklee and Frost as conservatories-? Music schools, conservatories, BM programs, all the same to me!
Every kid is different. I know young classical composers who actually prefer a BA program at a college, because they want a few years to work more on their own to develop their âvoiceâ and early on do not want the pressure to produce. This doesnât mean not working with a teacher, and having venues and resources for performances are important, but for some, a BM is constricting for their artistic development.
There is a tendency in our culture to professionalize talent as soon as possible. A kid writes well, and they look at writing programs; a kid writes some music, and they look at music programs, a kid loves to dance and they look at BFAâs. This works really well for some, and for others, it is premature or there is another way.
Last post on this and always grateful not to offend when I write something a little off track:)
@compmom offend??? Not at all unless Iâm misunderstanding something LOL. Just great perspectives and advice as far as I can tell. Maybe iâm getting the true nature of a âconservatoryâ wrong but I didnât think places like Frost or Thornton or NYU were considered conservatories since they are part of a liberal arts University. Again, I am new in this process and learning.
I honestly thought that conservatories were more for classical and jazz and not for songwriting or contemporary music. Does anyone on this thread know? Maybe itâs just semanticsâŠBerklee did merge with Boston Conservatory so maybe that does make it more of one now.
from the site: âBerklee is the premiere music college and performing arts conservatoryâ
The labels vary from conservatory (Oberlin Conservatory for instance, is part of a college) to music school (often in larger universities, as in Bienen, Mason Gross, Jacobs etc.). And then there are freestanding conservatories: Berklee is one, as is NEC in Boston. Berklee calls itself âBerklee College of Musicâ but anywhere you look, the subtitle is âconservatory.â
Berklee and NEC are part of a consortium and students can take classes at Northeastern for instance, so if you look at that area, which is no larger than a typical college campus, these schools also offer liberal arts, but not in the same institution.
All of these are BM programs, and that is the thing that distinguishes them from liberal arts colleges and universities that have BAâs in music (or music opportunities outside of class). You know the drill: 2/3-3/4 classes in music in a BM program, focus on lessons, practice, rehearsals, and performance. More of an applied music environment. A BA is often more academic, with 1/4-1/3 classes in music (sometimes 1.2). The school day is different too: college students have a class or two each day then study outside of class. Conservatory students are very busy all day doing music one way or the other.
I know very talented musicians who didnât even major in music and are in grad school for music now. And probably many more do BMâs and go on to perform or do more school.
Just hoping to clarify terms!!
ps schools for contemporary that get mentioned on here include Berklee, Frost, Belmont, UC Denver a few othersâŠthe more traditional conservatories often have jazz, like NEC or Oberlin and others- so I would wonder if songwriting is most easily found in contemporary programs versus jazz. I donât know myself. And I would also check the curricula at a few artsy liberal arts colleges for songwriting courses.
OK thank you! I really had no idea honestly! I know D wants to spend 90% of her time studying music so a BM is her first choice. That being said, I know she would love to take a writing class and continue French in college as well. Plus, I think I mentioned earlier, Frost has a partnership with Royal Academy of Music in London which would be a dream of an opportunity for her for Study Abroad. I know Berklee has study abroad opportunities as well but not sure if RAM is one of them.
@compmom, @drummergirl and everyone else are saying ALL the right things!!! I can very much feel for the place you are at right now, as we were in a very similar place at this time last year. A few thoughts:
1.) SO MUCH GROWTH will occur in just the next few months, and with her summer program coming up your D will very likely at least begin to focus her goals. Some well timed successes (or failures, for that matter) can really help with this. In my Dâs case, she also found, during a summer program before Senior year, that lifestyle issues were a part of her decision making process; which people can you hang with for extended periods of time, what do you want your professional work life to look like some day, etc.
2.) If you can find a few professionals who actually DO what your daughter thinks she wants to do (soâŠsongwriting-but the RIGHT kind? maybe mixed with performing?), pick their brains for their recommendations of how they would study/train if they were entering college now. Use all those competition connections to find these people!
3.) Look at the whole picture. UG may be a terminal degree for your D, or maybe not. I donât know with Jazz or Songwriting. But it seems to me that a place where she can get excellent and solid theory, composition, creative writing skills would be a good thing (a fine LAC program with a big music focus would seem indicated). OR, alternatively, perhaps a more stand alone conservatory type of school where she can be very closely mentored by someone who is very good at training (so choosing the program primarily for access to this mentor).
4.) Thereâs no harm in finding a few schools of different types to apply to (you should be sure your D would actually be willing to go to all of them, LOL). This helps to diversify your options. You may find during the visit/audition process that she really loves places she didnât expect to love, and isnât super keen on schools she thought would be an excellent fit on paper. And, frankly, there is a business aspect to the admissions/money piece. At all our Dâs schools they asked where else she was auditioning, and to the professional it was likely clear that she had done her research (Undergraduate performance opportunities were a big deal to her). I DO think this has some effect upon awards amounts sometimes, if they really want you.
All the best! Hang in there! Just do all your research and let her fly⊠with a lot of help from you, sheâll find her place.
The Royal Academy has composition, jazz and vocal (classical) but most likely nothing in the realm of songwriting. I donât really know, just guessing.
Berklee has a program in Spain https://www.berklee.edu/berklee-study-abroad
Summer programs are often a way to study abroad 
Crossposted with dramasopranomomâs excellent post. She knows the field and is very knowledgeable and insightful. I think the point about applying to a number of options is a good one: they donât have to decide until 4/30/18! Many changes can happen in the next year
Thank you @dramasopranomom! All such great info from everyone! @compmom I did study abroad in London and it was the best time in my college life. D has been there with me and very much wants to study there during college. Given that jazz voice is what would determine that I think itâs another plus in the column for jazz as a major for her.
My daughter sounds very much like yours @SpartanDrew . She is a jazz/blues-pop singer/songwriter. She found out over the years that she would get a different response from musicians based upon whether or not she introduced herself as a jazz/blues singer vs pop singer. This annoyed her a lot because she is a very serious and dedicated musician and didnât like that she wasnât taken seriously if she labeled herself as pop. For whatever reason, it is what it is. Fortunately, her sound is jazzy and bluesy so not a big deal, just doesnât view herself as those specific genres and doesnât want to be pigeonholed there.
She attended Berkleeâs 5 week and loved it. There were quite a few students there who acted like it was summer camp, but my daughter was able to find her peeps (other students as serious as she). They audition on the first or second day for class/ensemble placement and are placed by ability. Regarding scholarships, there are only so many scholarships they give out during the summer program, so if your daughter auditions for them during the program and doesnât get one, she should still audition in the fall, if she still is interested in Berklee.
Good luck!!!
Thank you @aMomWithHope!! My D will absolutely audition again if she doesnât get one in August. She did a shorter Stage Performance workshop last summer at Berklee and loved it. She is rooming with a friend she met there last summer for the 5 week this summer.
Is your D a rising senior or younger? Where is she considering for college?
There are many ways to study in London, or anywhere else (abroad) for that matter. I donât think that is a persuasive reason to major in jazz voice, per se. Good luck with the summer and with the fall too!!
She starts Berklee in the fall with a music scholarship.