What bothers me about this is that it puts forth a premise that Asians-American high school students, whose families come from many different countries many different generations ago, have families in many different socioeconomic status groups, live in many different parts of the country, etc., etc. are a monolithic group that consider themselves to be Asians first, students/future scientists or writers or engineers or teachers or doctors or nurses or whatever/musicians or athletes or debaters or whatever/goth or preppy or hippy or whatever. Just like every other American kid entering senior year of high school. Each Asian-American high school student, just like every other American high school student, has this opportunity during senior year to apply to college. Why shouldn’t the kid with Indian/Chinese/Bangladeshi/Taiwanese/Korean ancestry be treated just like the kid with Irish/Italian/Russian/English/Spanish/whatever acestry and why shouldn’t they apply to tippiest-top schools if they have tippiest-top transcripts and test scores? Why shouldn’t they expect to be thought of as indivuduals, just like every other studet?
Had a thought: the people in the best position to disclose at least some of the data that people are talking about is the common app people since it’s essentially a centralized app service for many of the top colleges and the schools want to be common app compatible because it increases their apps.
For example AMCAS (the centralized application service run by the AAMC for medical schools) routinely puts out data on med school applicants/matriculants: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/ similarly, the NRMP which oversees ERAS (the centralized application service for residents) also puts out data: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
None of the individual medical schools/residency programs release the type of stats that AAMC and NRMP release.
EDIT: Should point out that residency admissions is very unlike college admissions because students receive only one acceptance via the match. At least with medical school it’s more like college where students often get accepted to multiple schools and then choose one to attend.
I agree with you, @oldmom4896, but clearly there is a group of them who feel they are being discriminated against. So how do they effectively prove that thesis and/or combat such a practice, aside from sue the Harvards of the world?
A lot of high-stats, white kids with stellar resumes (but lacking the desirable hooks) feel similarly too, BTW. But since they’re in the “majority,” they may be more willing to accept the reality that there are just way too many applicants for each available seat. Or not. A lot of them complain on decision day too.
Part of the question is whether Asian Americans are being discriminated against or whether it’s a matter of Asian Americans as a whole applying in droves to the same majors at the same universities in disproportionate numbers. IOW, does an Asian American painter and field hockey captain from Iowa face the same difficulty as an Asian American math whiz, spelling bee champ violinist from the Bay area? I don’t know the answer but I think this whole issue is more complex than I’ve seen suggested at times.
I agree with @oldmom4896!
Also, I would point out to @LucieTheLakie (love your pic btw) that the article I linked to earlier seems to suggest that “this group who feels they are being discriminated against” is actually being catalyzed and organized by a man named Edward Blum.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/edward-blum-finally-got-his-victory
Whether you agree with his agenda or not, I believe it is important to understand by which means he is trying to achieve his agenda. In the case of Asian-Americans and holistic admissions he is actively recruiting Asian-Americans through websites. Even James Chen, who someone sited as teaching Asians to downplay their Asian-ness, has said it took a “white guy” (Blum) to start this case. Follow the money and question the (his) motive. Then make your own conclusion.
My point: I feel this attack on holistic college admissions is being manufactured. Like @0br0123 I value diversity and being exposed to different opinions…even here on CC. 
Honestly if it was up to me it would be illegal to ask for somebodies race on a college application. (Or any application for that matter)
@0br0123 It’s not about diversity. If the color of a persons skin has even the slightest factor in them getting or not getting admitted then the process is racist.
racist:
adjective
Having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
I don’t think admissions is racist. Perhaps there’s a better word to describe it.
Personally what I think the Ivy League should do is set an Ivy League Eligibility requirement.
1)An Applicant must have a 3.7 or higher Unweighted GPA (On a 4.0 scale).
2)An applicant must submit a standardized test score at or above the 90th percentile for that test.
That might only eliminate a handful of applicants anyways, but it would at least appease some people.
@dsi411 If all else is equal between two applicants, but the race of one applicant makes them a stronger applicant than the other, then as far as the admissions process is concerned one race is superior to another.
30 on the ACT and 2000 on the SAT are in the 97th percentile.
Well, when they send out a survey, some of you will have your ideas ready, for how Harvard should be doing things.
Anyone go over Harvard629’s links? Several had asked for some insight.
Admissions should be about the individual, always. I thought this is what “holistic” was-- allowing for an individual whose profile is lopsided, does not fit a mold, etc. to be offered admission.
Some day, I too have a dream: we will be judged by the nature of our character, as the Rev. Martin Luther King had said. Not today, but we can dream.
Meanwhile I remind myself when I hear talk of “Asians” and “Jews” and whatevers, that it depends which Asian and which Jewish student or whatever. Numbers tell something, other factors tell something else, and then the holistic process allows discernment for whatever that is used.
@RHSClassof16 if only you knew how ridiculous you sound
@0br0123 Ditto.
And who the pulled the idea of affirmative action tying race and socioeconomic status together from their butt? No matter how much money you have, life as a black Person is hard as HELL. Sure , blacks have it easier than others in the college admissions process, but who has it easier in life?
And if you hate AA so much then don’t apply to any schools or even better- write your essay on how much you hate AA.
You think you’re smarter than the top 20 schools in the US right?
I HAVE to reach for the Ivy league because if I apply for a top job and I went to a state school, I’m just another potentially unsuccessful black kid in the eyes of job recruiters/ intervieweinterviewers.
They don’t really have it easier when it comes to the elites. They still have to be academically able- no college wants to bring people in who can’ t thrive. And that means, the record and the full app are reviewed same as for any other kid.
What you don’t realize (and some of you can’t accept,) is that these URMs are also working hard to get into a good college match. They can take APs too, you know, get a little internship experience, play in the orchestra. And from the nature of their LoRs, you can see the teachers are setting expectations, same as at other schools.
Plus these kids have school leadership, are out in their communities taking on challenges, and can offer the right perspective in their apps. Not all, just as not all the other kids are so compelling. So not all get an admit. Don’t assume.
And don’t come back about scores; these are rising, including AP.
Some examples of disadvantages URMs face that are unrelated to income:
-Two students applying to the same position from the same school could be perceived differently based on the implied race of the name
http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html
“The authors find that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants with African-American-sounding names.”
-Maybe certain teachers grade black students’ papers more harshly (without even knowing they are doing so).
http://abovethelaw.com/2014/04/proof-that-typos-are-racist/
“A new study shows that when law firm partners read identical memos, the partners who believed the author was white were much more forgiving than the partners who thought the author was black.”
-Students at the same school could receive different punishments for the same offense based on their race.
http://lawyerscom.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Not-Measuring-up_-The-State-of-School-Discipline-in-Massachusetts.pdf
“White students received in-school suspensions about as often as they received out-of-school suspensions for the ‘non-violent, non-criminal, non-drug’ incidents described above. However, both Latino and Black students received out-of-school suspensions almost twice as often as they received in-school suspensions for these more
minor incidents.
These disparities cannot be explained by the suggestion that students of color misbehaved more often than their White peers, thus deserving increasingly harsher punishments. Looking only at students disciplined at least once for ‘non-violent, non-criminal, non-drug’ incidents, White students who received any discipline were repeatedly punished at a rate (2.4 punishments per student) similar to Black students and Latino students (each 2.5 punishments per student).”
Although initially meant for a good purpose, I believe that considering race to be a factor in admissions is a broken system. The fact is, the majority of those who are in place to take advantage of the system are not those who this system was created for. Race does not determine one’s “fit” for an elite school, nor does eye color, height, weight etc. When considering @iwannabe_Brown 's point that “Students at the same school could receive different punishments for the same offense based on their race,” I believe you could also prove that those with different eye color, height, or weight receive different punishments as well.
More often than not, those who apply to top schools are top students, hard workers, and live in good neighborhoods. If an URM with these traits and ORM with these traits both apply to a top level school, why then is the URM entitled to an advantage? Because of their race? At that point you my as well give students an advantage for being the right height, weight, or having the right eye color.
If you made the argument that URMs have lower incomes than ORMs, or that URMs live in neighborhoods where college isn’t the next step in life, then you could possibly justify an advantage. But most of the URMs applying to top schools today are not surrounded by a bad neighborhood or facing an income deficit. Those who live well and live in good neighborhoods can unfairly claim an advantage by simply being a URM.
I don’t believe race should be a factor in admissions. Simply put, that kind of system leaves too much space for URM applicants to claim an advantage even if they live a life similar to their ORM peers.