the Virginia legislature's stupid new anti-achievement rule

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
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<p>My friend got blocked out from enrolling this semester because of some stupid new rule introduced by the Virginia legislature saying that anyone who takes more than 125% of the graduation credit limit (i.e. 150/120) will have to pay 300 dollars an hour per credit hour (in-state) or 1000 dollars per credit hour (out of state). Of course, she balked at such a fee.</p>

<p>This is stupid-- and disproportionately affects Jefferson Scholars, Echols Scholars as well as regular students like me who overload regularly (I'm not sure if my AP + transfer credits count, because with them I have 146 credits just for three years, and 107 otherwise, not counting last semester which I am medically withdrawn for). I'm OOS and from a low-income family.</p>

<p>Yet UVA has done nothing to fight against this rather obscure rule, which seems to have been enacted by anti-scholastic legislators, perhaps out of jealousy? They didn't tell me this rule at first-year Orientation! This seems patently unfair.</p>

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<p>Guess you never got blocked from a class because it was full before you had your turn to register. While I appreciate you wanting to maximize the full value of the extraordinary opportunity you were given when you were admitted to UVa from OOS, the legislation was put into place to ensure classes are available for students WHO NEED THE CLASSES TO GRADUATE ON TIME. That is a major problem at a number of other Virginia state schools.</p>

<p>As I recall from your prior postings (under numerous screen names) over the past several years, you have chosen to stay in Charlottesville summers as well as over-loading during regular semesters. Congratulations on your industriousness, but perhaps you should just graduate from undergrad and move on to grad school (at the accelerated tuitions . . .).</p>

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<p>You have 146 credits and still can not graduate? You should have planned better. You had 39 credits going into college. Some body paid already to educate you to get those 39 credits. How much free/reduce cost education do you think you deserve while you make up your mind what you want to do with your life. There is no reason why you shouldn’t be out of college this May. </p>

<p>My dd would have had 39 credits going to our Flagship but went to an LAC and only got 24 credits instead. I hound her to finish up early. No need to be a professional undergrad student.</p>

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<p>This is not a new rule. I had a friend who graduated early in 2009 specifically to avoid this. [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/studentaccounts/news.html]News/Announcements[/url”&gt;http://www.virginia.edu/studentaccounts/news.html]News/Announcements[/url</a>]</p>

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<p>This rule was designed with a good intent. Too many students (particularly in-state students) were using the 5 or 6 year plan to stretch out their time in college. They were consuming seats that were needed for younger and more motivated students. That is also why UVa has a rule that you cannot get a second bachelors degree from UVa.</p>

<p>The Governor is pushing a plan to increase the number of graduates of public universities in the state. Part of that plan is making it easier for people to graduate in less than 4 years, which UVa has endorsed.</p>

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<p>I agree w/ Charlieschm. UVa doesn’t want students to take forever to graduate. Who wants to extend high school beyond 4 years if you don’t have to? So, why should college be any different if you can help it.</p>

<p>Plus, UVa is now pushing its 3+1 Program whereby motivated students w/ a lot credits can get a bachelors and masters in 4 years.</p>

<p>[3+1</a> Degree Option, Executive Vice President & Provost, University of Virginia](<a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/provost/3+1/]3+1”>http://www.virginia.edu/provost/3+1/)</p>

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<p>This is silly. I should not be penalised simply because I had AP credits in World History, English Literature, Economics, Physics, took advanced French courses dual-enrollment, while in high school etc. but simply chose to be a biochemistry major. </p>

<p>For one I’m a biochemistry major – regardless of the credits you have, you need all four years, I am an 80s series student and you have no idea what the course sequence is like. AP chemistry credit (which I didn’t have, because I hated chemistry coming into this school but loved it when I took courses here) doesn’t substitute for the understanding gained in the 80s series general chem courses. The sequence is Gen I - Orgo I, Orgo II, Gen II; Biochem I, Biochem II, P-Chem I, P-Chem II. This is eight semesters, or four years, not counting the fact that there are concurrent lab courses. Having two full lab courses in one semester is a bad idea. I am using my other credits to major and minor in physics and biology (haven’t decided which goes where). </p>

<p>You need all four years. There’s no such thing as graduating early if you’re a Biochemistry major.</p>

<p>However, since I have the time I chose to take courses in other things – including my interests in linguistics and materials science and so forth. I should not be penalised for this, though I need to graduate with a biochemistry degree. Biochemistry is my life, you don’t understand.</p>

<p>I haven’t spent my time ****ing around sampling everything, if that is what you are implying. At least exploratory coursework done in high school should not be included in the legislative credit limit! I did all that coursework in Maine. I didn’t go to TJ. The Virginia state contributed zilch to my high school career.</p>

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<p>I’m not Echols. I have experienced plenty of that, believe me. The Chair of Psychology Freeman wanted to block me from attending a psycholinguistics class (despite the fact I had the necessary background) simply because I was a third-year at the time. Why does the system penalise people for advancing early?</p>

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<p>Taking more than 150 credits in eight semesters is not motivation?? So why can’t this rule apply to people who have taken more than eight semesters at UVA?</p>

<p>I was hospitalised (in UVA Hospital’s Five-East unit) twice in my fall semester. I’d be graduating this year if I could help it. For now, the system counts me as only having completed six full-time semesters anyway.</p>

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<p>I’m intrigued how one student was able to graduate from UVa in 1 year w/ a double major, and then became a graduate student his 2nd year.</p>

<p>[U-Va.'s&lt;/a&gt; One-Year Wonder](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/19/AR2006091901779.html?nav=rss_print/asection]U-Va.'s”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/19/AR2006091901779.html?nav=rss_print/asection)</p>

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<p>So why does this rule apply to people who have yet to complete their eighth semester? This is the case of my friend. </p>

<p>Suppose you’re a fairly moderate case and you come in with 15 transfer credits from TJHSST or dual enrollment, and no AP credit. You take the following course sequence:</p>

<p>17 + 22 + 19 + 19 + 17 + 17 + 17 + 17</p>

<p>This is eight semesters, and you only overloaded for three semesters – for the other semesters you simply maximised the amount of credits you took without overloading (17). This is already, 145 credits. Now add in the 15 transfer credits and boom! 160.</p>

<p>This penalises academic productivity for no reason. More than that, it is an anti-Jeffersonian rule.</p>

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<p>Did you even read the link I posted, AP and dual enrollment doesn’t count.</p>

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<p>Oh goody, I guess I don’t have to die then. If I couldn’t my complete biochemistry degree, I couldn’t envision myself spending my entire life forced into some other hateful, drudgery-filled field.</p>

<p>Still, you only need an average of 18.75 credits per semester to break this limit without any precedent credit. This is not a lot, particularly if you’re double majoring within eight semesters, and if you’re a student who can do 22/semester. I do not think this is a “reasonable” rule.</p>

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<p>Many, many schools charge extra if you exceed a preset hour limit in a semester. Other schools’ tuitions are based on class hours. There are simply not enough teachers/classrooms, etc. at UVa for students to take six or seven classes a semester. If you want to take more than your fair share of classes, you have to pay for them. As others have pointed out, that is not a new policy at UVa.</p>

<p>Then again, I do recall you extolling the benefits of “all you can eat” buffets earlier in your career in C’ville . . . .</p>

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<p>Yet, this goes against the culture promoted by the administration when it confers Echols/Rodman/Jefferson Scholar status.</p>

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<p>Most professors in fact, would be overjoyed at their newfound popularity. Brain capacity per semester is the rate-limiting factor for why 15 credits/semester is the norm. But there should be no penalty for being more talented or hardworking than this preset rate, so long as numbers of semesters are not dragged out.</p>

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<p>What does this have to do with anything? And certainly, they are more competitive and cheaper than dining halls, which still seems to be a popular option for students for some reason.</p>

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<p>Yes, that’s why the spanish department stopped offering a minor, because of brain capacity.</p>

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<p>The buffet comment referred to wanting a lot, but not willing to pay for it. </p>

<p>I really don’t want to be too mean here, but aren’t you at UVa by virtue of Access UVa or some other substantial financial aid? If I recall that correctly, I have to say your coming on this board every semester you have been at the school complaining about things from our state government, to the city housing officials, to the students at UVa. etc., etc., etc., has really worn thin. </p>

<p>There are literally thousands of students each year who have not received the privilege you have of attending UVa – maybe for almost free. Yet you somehow think it is appropriate to bite the hand that feeds you at every turn. Good luck to you in the future, but I’ll bet you never have it this good again. </p>

<p>And, I hope when you are finally out in the working world of biochemistry, with your world-class education from UVa, you will remember to “pay it forward” with an annual gift back to UVa.</p>

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<p>I’m not the one currently affected by the rule. Try my friend from TJHSST, who has held senior leadership positions on two very large organisations, has taught for the Governor’s School twice (for French), attended the competitive Sciences Po (one of the Grandes Ecoles) on exchange (generally UVA most students on exchange to France are sent to Lyon), and her father is a doctor, though not a very rich one.</p>

<p>Another friend affected was the president of a very large and prominent cultural organisation for two years (the second year being a de-facto leadership), came in through NovaCC and graduated and is now doing research in Japan fully-funded Fulbright scholarship. I suppose you think she isn’t eligible to complain too? </p>

<p>Oh I haven’t talked about the Echols scholars!</p>

<p>This rule affects all forms of scholarship and all walks of life.</p>

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<p>oh believe me I will. if I am blessed with the opportunity, I would be one of AccessUVA’s most prolific donors, though I am not counting any chickens yet.</p>

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<p>Every rule can have unintended consequences. However, when I attended UVa many years ago, there were way too many students who didn’t want to leave. They would change majors so they never had enough credits for a degree.</p>

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<p>I want to present the other side of this argument to you.</p>

<p>I came in with 17 AP credits, 9 credits from a community college, 12 credits from Villanova (math I took dual enrollment), and 4 credits from a credentialing program to teach Hebrew, which meant I came in with 42 credits. (those wouldn’t have counted towards my limit).</p>

<p>I only needed 8 math classes for my major, and I took two elective grad classes as well. I took a large number of electives, such as fiction writing, an entire language beyond what I needed for the language requirement, astronomy and computer science courses, etc. These were all beyond gen ed requirements because I clearly got most of those done with my incoming credits.</p>

<p>I finished all of my required classes, including my major, by my 3rd year. If I had wanted to stay, I would have repeated what I did, which is to get a master’s. I was enrolled in the 5 year teacher ed program, which meant I got to stay for 5 years, which was fantastic. I had 126 credits by the end of my 8th semester. I took a large number of classes pass/fail, and would have audited if professors would have been more welcoming to that over pass/fail. My last semester, I went to every lecture of a class without being enrolled (the prof was OK with this). There are ways around that credit rule. Auditing is the best one.</p>

<p>I also chose to spend a good amount of my time working 2 jobs, because I was staying a 5th year, and because I liked both of my jobs, and being involved (a trait you seem to value), socializing, etc.</p>

<p>I considered doing a double major with computer science, but because of the inevitable 4+ year time schedule and conflicts I could see happening with the ed program, I decided to do math instead. Every choice comes at the expense of others. My choice has really worked out for me and I have never regretted it. My friend graduated early and got a masters and it worked out well for her. Your choice to stay all 8 semesters and do biochem will work out for you, but it comes at the expense of your money or taking your electives under audit. Just make your choices work for you, because the law is not going to change while you are attending UVa and you need to just make things come out the best for you… Even if you decide to pursue political activism against this you still need to be realistic that the law is in place and you will need to plan to make it work for you, because that is how the real world works (outside of college). You need to work with the situation you are given and make it come out the best for you at the moment while working to change it in the future for others if possible.</p>

<p>I don’t usually respond to your threads but I just wanted to supply the facts and give the other side of your argument to this one.</p>