<p>I was lamenting the fact that the college application circus has made it difficult for my sons to just be boys. My sister did NOTHING in the way of ECs, played no instruments, didn't even have a 4.0 and she went to Berkeley, Harvard and Princeton. No she says there is NO WAY she would get past the first cut.</p>
<p>When did all this craziness start? </p>
<p>How did you spend your afterschool days and summers? How do you feel about the pressure on kids to do so much and work so hard at such a young age? </p>
<p>I admit it really bothers me and I wonder if they won't be burned out before they are 40.</p>
<p>There were very few EC’s available at my school - we had 3 sports, a few service clubs. I worked 20 hours a week my last 2 years of high school to pay for college. My son does nothing now except attend an occasional Boy Scout activity. I worry about where he will end up because of it, but it is his choice.</p>
<p>I remember well making sure I had the proper distribution of my activities throughout HS. I had an academic one, yearbook; athletic one, swimming; and community service, Candy Striping. Proper distribution of academic courses, AP’s, good awards, Honor Society. And that was almost 40 years ago. Maybe not as extensive then, but paid attention to it. And I did not try for HPYS. </p>
<p>I actually paid less attention to that with my own. I think it was more important for them to focus on something that was a major interest to them and show a commitment to it than to “distribute” their activities in some pre-determined scatter. We also let them develop what they were interested in on their own. But they were not going for HPYS either. They did end up where they wanted to be though.</p>
<p>I remember worrying in my application to Stanford that I didn’t have much extracurricular stuff. And I didn’t, and then dean Fred Hargadon, who interviewed me, said as much. It didn’t seem to matter; I was admitted anyway. I very much doubt I would have gotten in today.</p>
<p>One of our D’s teachers speaks of this generation as ‘mortgaging their childhood.’ Yeah, too true.</p>
<p>Because my parents were always in the process of getting a divorce and I didn’t want to be stuck at home babysitting multiple siblings I joined every club possible and studied my butt off so I could go to school for free! Pressure? Yes! Did it pay off? Yes!</p>
<p>Ds are multiple sport “scholar athletes” with just enough community service. Most of their pressure is from academics.</p>
<p>I ask the same question as the OP, when did this craziness start? My DS is in his jr yr of hs and all he hears from us is “keep your grades up” and “get that short list started.” The kid’s afraid he’s being pushed out of the nest too soon And my DD, who’s the opposite, is two yrs younger and spends every waking moment studying, practicing her sport and loves it. Her honors math is so involved, the teacher allows them to stay late to study (last night it was 9:00 and there were at least 8 of them.) And Me? I’m like a yo-yo having to deal w/two very different children!</p>
<p>In the halcyon 1960s and early 70s, I spent summers swimming, playing sandlot baseball and board games, or occasionally on the water with my Dad. As I entered my teens, we spent more time hanging out in garage bands, cruising around in cars, at make-out parties, drinking beer or smoking pot. Most of us also had after school jobs such as washing dishes in the local hospital.</p>
<p>Maybe my HS GPA was about 3.5 overall, with an upward trend. I was involved in a couple of school activities, but nothing that interfered with the make-out parties or pot smoking. I applied to 3 famous, prestigious universities and was accepted by one of them with a lot of financial aid. </p>
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<p>The current competitiveness has much to do with demographic factors, including the “echo boom”, increased college attendance by women and minorities, and the fact that we forgot how to build famous colleges after, like, 1892. All the extracurricular and “hooks” baloney has had a complicated history. It first evolved out of elaborate strategies many decades ago to try to keep high-scoring Jewish kids out of Ivy League colleges, after standardized testing appeared on the scene, threatening to make everything too simple, objective, and fair. </p>
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<p>We resisted it. When my 2nd child was in 7th grade at our rural public middle school, they had him take the SATs as part of a university talent search. I don’t remember the exact scores but they were high (>550 V >700 M). My fatherly instinct was to ship him off to Nerd Camp immediately. Mom put her foot down. He wound up spending every summer through high school in “outward bound” type activities, first as a camper then as a counselor. </p>
<p>He’s has had an excellent high school experience, not at all without pressure, but has his own mind about what assignments and activities are worth spending any amount of time on. He probably will attend an excellent (but not super famous) Liberal Arts College located in a very nice setting with good opportunities for outdoor recreation.</p>
<p>I think there is indeed an increase in the amount of things that one must do now to get into top colleges. But there is a GREAT exaggerration about this. You don’t need to spend your HS career being in 10 ECs etc. etc. etc.</p>
<p>However, you do have to actively participate in a few ECs which will, hopefully, make you a better person. </p>
<p>I think some reasons for this is globalization. There is more competition now for jobs and etc. You have to have a good education to compete in the market. Since more people are going to college, colleges can be more selective.</p>
<p>Back in the 1970’s, people went to colleges/universities that they’d heard of. Or in rare instances (like mine) places that had bought their names from the College Board after the PSAT or SAT, or from the folks who run the ACT after the kids took the ACT. It was a much more regional market.</p>
<p>Nowadays, the market is nationwide. Which means that the really talented kids that 30 or 40 years ago headed straight to their state Us or regional LACs are all knocking on the door of the same “top” schools. Which of course makes those same “top” schools look ever more intriguing because wow if you can get in you must be some kind of super human to have overcome the admissions odds, and who doesn’t want to be a super human, or the parent of a super human, or the principal of a school that has produced a super human?</p>
<p>The best EC is community service and volunteer work; these activities opened doors for my D. Most were free with the exception of a Habitat for Humanity trip that required a donation upfront, which my D and her friends earned with a car wash. </p>
<p>I personally find lists of clubs to be vaue and never know what it entailed. As opposed to “300 hours volunteering at Head Start” or “100 hours tutoring at the middle school.”</p>
<p>When I was in high school in the 1970s, we didn’t hear much about college in our very average public high school. Only about half the class went to college, and of those, the vast majority headed to community colleges or mediocre state teachers colleges such as Slippery Rock or IUP. The rest went to one of the major state universities, and a handful to the sorts of private colleges that many CC parents regard as “safeties.” Out of 800 students, maybe half a dozen went to Ivy League or other elite private schools. </p>
<p>If you coasted through high school 20-30 years ago with above average but not outstanding grades and minimal ECs, but still attended HYP or another coveted university, you no doubt came from a privileged, educated family, or were blessed to attend a rigorous high school with teachers and guidance counselors who could push you along. The rest of us could probably have benefitted from a little more pressure. I don’t think that there’s too much craziness today, apart from the high-achieving parents who insist that their child’s future will be ruined if he doesn’t get into one of the CC top universities. The truth is that most colleges in this country are not particularly selective, and still admit most of their applicants.</p>
<p>We were a class of in excess of 800 students where a lot of kids didn’t go to college. If you went away to college anywhere (as opposed to the “junior college” or the local commuter college) you were hot stuff. I knew exactly two people who went to private schools. A lot of us probably could have gotten into “better” schools than we attended, but we didn’t know about them, plus cost was a huge issue.</p>
<p>I did lots of ECs - school newspaper, theatre, orchestra, oral interp…now you’d be forced to focus on one or two of those. I had never heard of AP classes. You had no control over whether you were in an “honors” class - you were put there or not. Honors classes got no extra weight in the GPA. With a few exceptions, high school classes were easy easy easy. We had so much time to devote to ECs because we weren’t spending much time on homework.</p>
<p>We were the peak of the baby boom. Totally open campus. Few required courses. I think that more than anything we were warehoused…they had to do something with us, but needed to have as few of us on campus at any given time as possible. No study halls, but lots of free first and last periods.</p>
<p>Early 70’s high school here. What, me worry? My whole childhood was spent in a suburban haze and I was outside during pretty much all of my free time. Moms would yell for their kids at dinner time and we’d rush in, eat, and rush back out again. I never participated in a single EC or sport and went to the State U 8 miles down the road (having applied to it and the local CC).</p>
<p>My kids, on the other hand, never left the house unless we were right there with them or they were with someone we trusted. And this is in small town America! So, naturally, their time became more regimented and we had to find things for them to do in a more structured, guided way. In the end, they chose their own interests and if they were ever uptight, it was because they placed an expectation on themselves.</p>
<p>I don’t think the competition for colleges created any of this - I think the paranoia of modern life created the “new” kid and that fed into the competition of collegiate admissions. Sadly, I don’t think we can go home again.</p>
<p>We have not pressed S2 on the EC front. He has two main HS ECs and one outside EC (plus community service). He is a musician in a very demanding band, where one must continually practice, and a starting varsity athlete with inhumane practice schedules. He also is an assistant martial arts instructor (he has 3 black belts, and has won international competitions). He did attend a University summer program as well as sports camps and music camps. All his idea. He has received pressure from others trying to be helpful to add an academic EC and start a club to show leadership etc. We have simply said no. He is having a good time in high school and we like it that way. If he gets in he does, if he doesn’t he doesn’t. The kid will be fine wherever he ends up.</p>
<p>Perhaps my own experience colors our approach. I did not have a single EC, a GPA that was much less than good, and happily began at a community college. Ended up with a fellowship at a top private for grad school, a successful career in and outside the academy, and have almost never been asked where I went to undergrad school.</p>
<p>I’m 23, so I have the perspective of the generation that you are worried will be burned out. And I don’t think it’s as bad as a lot of the parents seem to.</p>
<p>I didn’t have a 4.0. I did plenty of ECs, but they were ones that I enjoyed, and I dropped ones that I didn’t like even if they were supposedly good application-boosters. I spent a lot of time (it was effectively a part-time job) minding my baby brother, 12 and a half years younger than I, while my mom went through law school. I sat around talking to my sister, reading, and listening to music during my spare time. I did take a very rigorous curriculum - I was something of a legend in my high school and even got featured in the city paper - but I didn’t feel terribly pressured by it - I took those classes because I didn’t want to be bored in school.</p>
<p>I spent my summers at my dad’s house, swimming and diving on a low-pressure, low-performance, high-fun summer league team (I was mediocre even by their standards), volunteering as a springboard diving judge in the little kids’ divisions, lounging around reading books, running 45 miles/week to stay in shape for cross-country, and going out to play team trivia with my dad’s friends. Very lazy (except for the running), very pleasant summers. :)</p>
<p>In short, my childhood was active - I did a lot of things - but pleasant, not overly regimented, and not terribly pressured, with plenty of time left over for just being lazy.</p>
<p>I got into six of the US News Top 20, seven schools total (out of ten applications). I ended up at MIT. Most of the people I met there had similarly active-but-not-excessively-structured backgrounds.</p>
<p>That’s a great commentary, Highlandmom, thanks for sharing!</p>
<p>I think there’s a dramatic difference in the college application process since I went to college. Like many of you, I cruised through HS in the mid-70s with above average grades, great SATs, National Merit Scholarship, one main EC and a few others. I ended up with a full ride at a very good private school now considered to be a safety.</p>
<p>My son is much smarter, more rigorous academics, more ECs, great SATs…got a great scholarship but rejected at his top two schools. He should have been a walk-on at both schools and would definitely have been a walk-on when I was a senior. But then is not now. </p>
<p>I am dismayed at the posts that I read on these forums about kids who have no free time and have spent all their HS careers doing what they needed to do to get into the colleges they or their parents want. Looking back, I’m glad my son had a chance to enjoy school, band, debate, friends, video games, family time and vacations, pick-up games of football and a million hours of television. He’ll be a happy and successful adult with a degree from a great state school in the field of his choosing and be a well-rounded individual (remember that term from our college application experiences?) and a great citizen. </p>
<p>I remember how mad I was at my father who would not allow me to get a job in high school, because he said I needed to enjoy the one time in my life that I wouldn’t have to work until I was old and retired. I’m still working and I’m glad I had that time to enjoy life. My son has had the same experience, and that probably hurt him on his college apps. How ironic and sad.</p>
<p>There was no pressure to have EC’s back in the old days of my high school years. I took a few AP classes, was a voracious reader over summer, played an instrument for fun, and had no idea I was suppose to study for that SAT thing. Needless to say, my SAT score was awful. Still, I went on to community college and eventually I ended up with a Ph.D. in a research field. (I did study for my GRE and ended up with a Fellowship, Scholarship, and a couple of Assistantships plus a tuition waiver for grad school. I guess I was the posterchild for high school underachiever.) </p>
<p>I am constantly trying to find a balance for my children. I want to keep them busy so they don’t have time for alcohol or drugs, but I want them to have time to themselves, too. Both need community service hours to get our state’s free-ride-to-state-school scholarship, so both have been involved with community service all through high school. We actually got started with community service early on just on principle, but upped the hours in high school. </p>
<p>I mostly want my kids to enjoy their childhoods and have plenty of time for dreaming and imagination and pursuing their own interests. Through the years they have played various sports and musical instruments and attended science camps, boy and girl scout camps, and summer camps. I encouraged them to try all sorts of different things to help them find their true passions. </p>
<p>I didn’t push to have every moment filled with EC’s because I wanted to make sure they knew what to do with leisure time. S makes my reading habits look lame. D likes to draw. I wanted to make sure they had plenty of time to pursue their pleasures and just relax. </p>
<p>I see so many of their friends doing multiple EC’s and wonder about burn out. S is always worried he isn’t doing enough, but he ended up as a NMF and will be attending a great OOS school with full ride so all worked out in the end. D pushes herself harder than S, but she is happy so I let her go. I do think today’s students may be pushed too hard. Afterall, when will they ever be children again?</p>
<p>My S2 did ECs he wanted to do – mainly sports and music. He had no “academic” ECs. He did a minimum of community service.</p>
<p>He took his schoolwork seriously but I can count on one hand the nights he stayed up past 10:00 PM to study or do homework.</p>
<p>He had about 10 hours of tutoring for the SATs.</p>
<p>He got into his first-choice Ivy.</p>
<p>I think the kids who are killing themselves with studying and the appropriate variety of ECs are trying to hard to be something they’re not. I don’t think it’s necessary to Do It All.</p>
Most of their pressure is from academics.</p>
And my DD, who’s the opposite, is two yrs younger and spends every waking moment studying, practicing her sport and loves it. Her honors math is so involved, the teacher allows them to stay late to study (last night it was 9:00 and there were at least 8 of them.) And Me? I’m like a yo-yo having to deal w/two very different children!</p>