They don't have a clue

Colleges and Universities A-Z Merchant Marine Academy - Kings Point
1

<p>KP10 just sent this article to me. </p>

<p>The people in San Francisco don't have a clue as to the real benefit of the JROTC programs. </p>

<p>And I can not imagine that the banishment of this program could possibly pay for 9 full time teachers given that the salaries of the instructors of a JRTOC program are paid in part by the USG. </p>

<p>The program at my son's former school SAVES kids and puts them on the right track. I can not thank "commander" and "chief" of his program enough for the mentoring they did to help KP10 achieve his goals. </p>

<p><a href="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/15/BAG2HMD46B1.DTL%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/15/BAG2HMD46B1.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

2

<p>I so agree with you. There were kids in my sons JROTC that really needed that discipline and regimental training. I would go so far as to say, without it some of them might have been lost in High School and not have achived their various goals. Very few went into the military, but many went on to ROTC programs at colleges as well as to military colleges/academys. This is a disgrace in SFO. There were numerous commentaries on Fox News last night including one group who said they wanted rotc out because the kids are too young to have the influence of the military around...however the schools are still allowed to have clubs for gay/homosexual students..I guess that influence is ok at any age...hmmmm.</p>

3

<p>100% agreement. They just used these kids in a sad political game. Whats next? Attack the Boy Souts? The whole thing is rather silly. Hope the parents out there are throwing fits & causing a stir. I would be first in line if my kid were involved.</p>

4

<p>In banning JROTC, the San Francisco Board of Education’s claim that its decision is about “peace” is nothing but a mask. Behind that mask is a snarling hatred for people. Once unmasked, this crowd would like you to believe their hatred extends no further than ideas and principles, such as their opposition to patriotism, orderly thinking, and character building. Yet they can barely contain their revulsion of those young men and women who enjoy standing in ranks, wearing look-alike uniforms, striving for goals such as ribbons, ranks and awards, and thinking about their purpose in life instead of having the left-wing crowd tell them what they should believe. These so-called liberals typically claim to be all about “choice” and “rights” for young people with the parents and other stakeholders excluded, but those concerns are convenient lies. This group has run rough shod over these young people who voluntarily chose to join JROTC. The peace crowd would like us to believe that young people would not have chosen JROTC if they hadn’t been recruited, another falsehood. In fact, anyone who claims to be an educator knows that young people feel very strongly about joining and belonging to certain groups as a critical component of the process of matching their gifts and abilities with opportunities and their life goals. That choice and that sense of belonging have been viciously denied to JROTC young people. And one more thing. This liberal crowd typically claims to be about “tolerance” and “diversity” of ideas, but this turns out to be another fib. While claiming, “We need to teach a curriculum of peace,” this cabal reserves their greatest hatred for young people who love peace and conclude that service in uniform is their way to support peace. Such a definition of “peace” will no longer be tolerated in the San Francisco curriculum.</p>

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<p>This is truly mind boggling.</p>

<p>LFWB went to a DC public school where there was a JROTC program. While he wasn;t part of it. It served to be what Scouts was for kids whowouldn't otherwise have an outlet to a disciplined community based organization. </p>

<p>JROTC programs are vital, especially in inner city schools. </p>

<p>The SF Council vote is about as short sighted as anything I have ever seen.</p>

6

<p>You said, "This liberal crowd typically claims to be about “tolerance” and “diversity” of ideas, but this turns out to be another fib"</p>

<p>And I agree. This is the first thing I thought when I read this article and this comes from a person who would be considered "left" in a group of military folk. :) </p>

<p>I can not express my disappointment in those who obviously pay lip service to diversity and tolerance. When a group that doesn't fit their idea of the principles they allegedly uphold they are as ready as any other group to fight them to a point of extinction. </p>

<p>I am not certain what happens in other JROTC programs but in my son's school there is no heavy recruitment to the program any more than any other extra curricular or elective activity. And the leaders of his program made a point to gaurd the students from unwanted recruitment from recruitment officers. The rate of students that actually went into the military from this program when my son started was similar to the rest of the student population. I would speculate that it was higher in his class and this next class because there just happened to be a high level of interest toward a military carreer in these two classes, it had nothing to do with indoctrination. </p>

<p>The young people in KP10's group were so supportive of each other in so many positive ways. When they came to our home or when I see them now at town, they just seem like family. They would do anything to help the other and seriously they kept each other out of harms way by working on positive things together. </p>

<p>I went on one weekend field trip with the program as a chaperone and it was a very interesting observation in teens learning to lead ( a bit of organized chaos). But out of that experience the young people learned a tremendous amount about themselves, working with others and what they are capable of and what they needed to develop. </p>

<p>I can not imagine that a parent would rather there kid be elsewhere than on this fieldtrip out in the country learning basic leadership with a group of adults that allowed them to determine their own outcome in the confines of a safe environment. </p>

<p>I will always be grateful to the NJROTC program and the two people that lead it at my son's school.</p>

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<p>My Mid made a good point today when we were talking about this issue. He said (some of it I can't repeat) that he felt so rotten bad for those kids who had this opportunity taken away because some were kids that didn't make the varsity football team, they didn't make the cheerleading squad & JROTC gave them a place to excel & belong. He felt most sorry for the kids that maybe didn't have such good family lives. Those kids became part of a group that looked out for each other. He was just sick to hear about this. Said he was gonna write a nasty letter to somebody. Is looking into who it should be addressed to. I said, "Go boy!".</p>

8

<p>i think one of the issues that is behind the facade of trying to get the JROTC groups banned is the feminization of today's young men. don't get me wrong, we need a feminine perspective in life, but in all honesty, that's not what little boys are created for. (i know there are also girls in the ROTC programs, but the majority of those involved in such activities are males). in my opinion, boys were created to be wild, go out and get dirty, learn to shoot a gun, be tough. think about it. all the superheros we loved as kids-- were they wuss bags? not in the least. i think of characters like Batman, and Superman, and GI Joe. there's a reason little boys look up to these kind of characters. this is not about being a testosterone driven macho man, it's about retaining what has made men into men for all of history. by not allowing these young kids to learn how to respect others more than themselves, courage in the face of danger and adversity, how to push their own limits and see what they're really made of, and give them room to explore the world around them, they're effectively killing the drive that pushes young men to see who they are.
in my own case, i was not given much of a chance to do those kinds of things, such as JROTC, even though i always wanted to. and for the media to say that kids are being forced to go into these programs or led blindly into something that will get them "Stuck in Iraq" that's total crap. i'm still a plebe, so i know that i don't know a whole lot about how things with the whole military life work, but i will say that no one forced me into this. in fact, most discouraged it. however i could not let myself settle for average. i can say that while i had some emotional support from family, i didn't have anyone hold my hand through the process. i know i'm not the only one that has wanted to fight for my country since i was 11 years old.
and about the teaching peace thing, and using reason to solve your differences with people, that all sounds well and good, but without war there can be no peace, and you can only reason with reasonable people. hence the reason fighting has to be done. unreasonable people don't understand. you have to do what you have to do to get your point across. if violence is all they understand, then speak their language.
i say San Fran should just shut up and go back to whining about how we're killing off the north canadian whistling mosquito or something, but leave kids out of it. they're not puppets.</p>

9

<p>Okay Jamzmom, here are several communications options for the Jamz to write his letter: </p>

<p>San Francisco Chronicle Staff Writer E-mail Jill Tucker at <a href="mailto:jtucker@sfchronicle.com">jtucker@sfchronicle.com</a></p>

<p>San Francisco Chronicle Letters to the Editor should be addressed to <a href="mailto:letters@sfchronicle.com">letters@sfchronicle.com</a>. Due to space considerations, only letters of less than 250 words will be considered for publication. Please provide your name and telephone number along with your letter. You will be called if your letter is being considered for publication. </p>

<p>Web Log on the decision: <a href="http://www.webloggin.com/jrotc-program-killed-by-san-francisco-board-of-education/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.webloggin.com/jrotc-program-killed-by-san-francisco-board-of-education/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>San Francisco Board of Education Members Contact Information:
Mr. Norman Yee
President
e-mail: <a href="mailto:yeen@sfusd.edu">yeen@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Ms. Sarah Lipson
Vice President
e-mail: <a href="mailto:slipson@sfusd.edu">slipson@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Mr. Eddie Y. Chin, J.D.
e-mail: <a href="mailto:echin@sfusd.edu">echin@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Dr. Dan Kelly
e-mail: <a href="mailto:dkelly@sfusd.edu">dkelly@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Mr. Eric Mar, Esq.
e-mail: <a href="mailto:emar@sfusd.edu">emar@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Mr. Mark Sanchez
e-mail: <a href="mailto:msanche@sfusd.edu">msanche@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Ms. Jill Wynns
e-mail: <a href="mailto:jwynns@sfusd.edu">jwynns@sfusd.edu</a></p>

<p>Please let us know what he decides and what he hears back.</p>

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<p>Jamzmom, I almost forgot---here's how to get your Letter to the Editor published:</p>

<p>What is a Letter to the Editor?
Letters to the editor most often discuss a recent event/issue covered by a publication, radio station, or TV program.</p>

<p>They are your chance to "sound-off" to your community about issues in the news. They are widely read—so you can make a difference.</p>

<p>Elements / Hints
It is much easier to publish a letter to the editor than it is to place an op-ed or get a story written by a reporter.</p>

<p>Your letter has the best chance of being published if it is a reaction to a story in the paper. Respond as quickly as you can.</p>

<p>Read the letters page—you will learn how to develop an effective letter-writing style, and you will be able to see if someone has already written on your issue.</p>

<p>Keep it short and concise—150-200 words. The paper will take the liberty to shorten your letter to suit its format; the more it has to cut, the less control you have of what gets printed. Lead with your most important information. Edit yourself--write and rewrite.</p>

<p>Focus on one main point and make a compelling case. Be "witty" without lapsing into sarcasm or clichés.</p>

<p>Write in short paragraphs, with no more than three sentences per paragraph.</p>

<p>Don’t write too often. Once every three months is about as often as you should write.</p>

<p>Avoid personal attacks.</p>

<p>Put your full name, address and phone number at the top of the page and sign the letter at the bottom. You must include a phone number for verification purposes.</p>

<p>Follow up to see if the letter was received.</p>

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<p>KP10's NJROTC group was near 50% female.</p>

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<p>wow- just for the record - is2day is my son...and reading his post made me realize that he really does get it.....how impressive</p>

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<p>I am not suggesting that all the people who choose the military path are this way but it sounds like your son as my son felt a calling to it at a very young age. And I say calling because there is no other word to describe the draw and determination KP10 has to be a military officer. Your son as mine was voicing this determination already at a very young age. </p>

<p>I think kids go into NJROTC for many reasons. But I really doubt that the JROTC programs are being exploited as a recruitment tool in the schools. </p>

<p>Kids "called" to going in are going to go in. Those that are going into the military because they percieve that it is the only viable career option for them are highly unlikely to be interested in JROTC because to them going into the military is just a job, not a calling.</p>

<p>JRH, I am also impressed that your son sees and expresses realistically a balance in his life of an appreciation for the feminine without loosing the masculine side of his self. He is right, guys need these things and usually more so than most young ladies. I have two boys and sometimes I don't get a lot of what they do, but I can see that some of the things they need to do just because they are guys. </p>

<p>I remember when KP10 wanted to get into hunting, I did not get it at all. But I was encouraged by my husband to take him and observe a "youth" hunting event that he went on. It was the first time he went hunting and I observed him shoot one of the two pheasants. The guy that was his mentor said that as soon as he downed the first bird he stood a bit taller and said, "Dinner on the table tonight". And you know, he did walk taller and squarer after that hunt. I came away realizing that although you can get all the meat you want in a styrofoam package at the super market, it does not satisfy the need he and many guys have to provide for the family in this manner. There are mnay things that are "just guy things".</p>

<p>Val</p>

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<p>is2day gets it JRH. He does indeed. </p>

<p>I'm copying all the goodies to the Jamz email. Thanks a bunch for the info.</p>

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<p>The debate over JROTC at secondary schools in San Francisco is primarily a BUDGET ISSUE, with a dash of politics thrown in to cover up the fact that SFUSD has to make miracles happen for over 60,000 students on a shoestring budget! </p>

<p>“The school district and the military share the $1.6 million annual cost of the program, with the military paying $586,000, or half the salaries of 15 instructors--all of whom are retired military personnel. The district pays the other half of salaries and $394,000 in benefits. A budget analysis found that the district could hire nine teachers with the money the district now spends on JROTC -- enough to cover the gym and elective courses for the 1,600 students should the program be eliminated. </p>

<p>Earlier, Mayor Gavin Newsom weighed in on the debate, chastising the board for the effort to eliminate JROTC. "The move sends the wrong message," he said. "It's important for the city not to be identified with disrespecting the sacrifice of men and women in uniform."<br>
-San Francisco Chronicle</p>

<p>The mayor wants the program, the parents and students want JROTC, the teachers want JROTC, but the school district CAN’T AFFORD JROTC!</p>

<p>In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that blaming the ‘peaceniks” for the demise of JROTC in San Francisco is a convenient smokescreen for our Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger (currently AWOL from the Austrian Army by the way), who slashed the education budget in California by billions, but at the same time expects the school districts throughout the state to meet the federal mandates of No Child Left Behind and get our students (of whom 30 percent are English Language Learners whose parents aren’t even literate in Spanish) up to speed. Wake up people. One out of two children born in California in 2006 is Hispanic. Out of a population of 33 million statewide, that’s a lot of English Language Learners who end up costing school districts much more to educate than native speakers. SFUSD and the mayor of San Francisco, Gavin Newsom, want to keep the JROTC program, but they just can’t afford it if it doesn’t raise test scores. </p>

<p>If the residents of the San Francisco are so anti-military, why do the local universities, including Stanford, California Maritime Academy (CMA), UC Berkeley, and UC Davis have one of the oldest (founded in 1926 by Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz) and most vibrant NROTC units in the nation?</p>

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<p>NAMOM, Welcome to our corner of college confidential. </p>

<p>Apparently you have some insider understanding of the politics and the challenges faced by the city of San Francisco. </p>

<p>The article my son shared with me however also says that the decision was loudly applauded by opponents of the JROTC program as well as this quote: </p>

<p>"We don't want the military ruining our civilian institutions," said Sandra Schwartz of the American Friends Service Committee, an organization actively opposing JROTC nationwide. "In a healthy democracy ... you contain the military. You must contain the military."</p>

<p>It seems like there is a mixed bag of politics and concerns going on here. </p>

<p>I agree that there must be balance in understanding this and than you for the counterpoint. </p>

<p>Your point of question on the SF residents being supportive to ROTC is also a consideration. I am not certain how the funding on those programs impact the residents of California, much less SF. There may not be any correlation between resident acceptance of the program and the programs if it does not have any impact on their pocketbooks. </p>

<p>Once again thanks for the counterpoint. I will remain disappointed to see another JROTC program shut down whether due to funding our popular political sentiment.</p>

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<p>Imagine you are a high school principal and your job performance and school ranking is determined by standards-based tests given at the end of each school year. Also, you have a limited budget and the calculus of the master schedule is vexing to say the least. You need to hire teachers who can raise test scores, help the students pass the California high school exit exam (students start taking it in 10th grade because many have trouble passing it after three attempts), AP tests, other benchmark tests, and teach more than one subject, e.g., chemistry and physical education. As much as you believe in the JROTC program, a military instructor only teaches a couple sections of the class and you may have to pay them benefits, which may exceed their salary. Unfortunately, highly specialized instructors may be a luxury that many school districts can’t afford these days.</p>

<p>Personally, I’m a huge fan of JROTC and would like to see it expanded to every secondary school in California, including middle school. Every fall I invite one of the Navy ROTC units to my school. They drill for the entire school and come to my class afterwards to answer questions about the program. Later in the year when my students meet with the high school counselors some sign up for JROTC. I think JROTC is a lifesaver for many students even if they don’t enlist after graduation. </p>

<p>The anti-military sentiment is ‘spin’ in this case. The real reason the program is being cut is that there is no direct correlation between JROTC and higher test scores, and the instructors only teach one subject.</p>

18

<p>That makes sense, but they will be hiring gym teachers/electives teachers. The electives may have an impact on test scores, but gym teachers will not. Not only that, but they are cutting out 6 teaching possitions. JROTC manages to fit in multiple disciplines. I would argue that it is more cost effective (especially since the government picks up 1/3 of the bill). I do not know the ins-and-outs of the system, so if you can correct my understanding, please do.</p>

19

<p>I imagine the California High School exam is like our WASL and that is another whole aspect of this problem that is merit of discussion on another thread or board. </p>

<p>Sometimes we put way to much into testing and not enough into teaching.</p>

20

<p>The hypocrisy behind this is almost as bad as those PETA people how will throw paint on old rich women with fur coats but won't take my suggestions to go to a biker bar and harass all the people wearing leather jackets.</p>