Things prospies should consider

Colleges and Universities A-Z Grinnell College
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<p>OPs post caused me to reflect on some experiences D2 had at her first school.</p>

<p>When you are screening colleges, there are good points and bad points of all of them. And you have to guess at how bad you will feel about the bad points, and how good the good points will actually be for you. When you get there, the reality of those experiences may be a bit different than what you thought, even if you read about them. Because reading and your own experience with them, are different things.</p>

<p>“Regarding the town, people do really need to research their schools before attending.”</p>

<p>My guess is that OP did research this aspect, but got mixed messages, indicating this issue may be less important than he’s found it to be so far. For example,he could have read posts on this very thread. Like "45 mins to the west is desmoines and 45 mins to the east is iowa city for more stuff to do. " and the others. And came away with the notion that the situation there was not so much what he in fact has found it to be, for him, so far.</p>

<p>" re the scheduling issue: One of the obvious drawbacks to any LAC that keeps classes small, is that freshman aren’t always going to get the classes they want, when they want them"</p>

<p>I agree.</p>

<p>"The scheduling problem seems to be with students in all colleges "</p>

<p>Yes, but the private university I’m most familiar with offers numerous sections of many classes, and offers these classes every semester or at least every year, not every other year. Therefore the odds that you will get a particular desired class, at some point, are greater, IMO. D1 had intractable conflicts at her LAC caused by there being only a single section of two particular classes that met at the same time, the only semester either class would be offered that she could take them. This sort of thing is less likely if multiple sections of each class was offered,and they were offered every semester. Plus, with so many additional courses offered there may be closer substitutes available if you do get shut out. So IMO this is a bigger issue for LACs. I’ve heard some cash-strapped public Us also have big problems with courses scheduling. But it certainly hasn’t been a huge deal at D2s private U. Perhaps this is something to check into on a case-by-case basis.</p>

<p>This aspect was not something we researched during our prior college searches, because nobody brought it up. I bet a lot of people overlook it. So it’s good OP mentioned it, because it is a legitimate point to investigate IMO.</p>

<p>The odd “hate-looney”, and someone causing the cops to be called in, can perhaps happen on any campus. depending on local laws. But if these things are, in fact, happening on this campus, then it is not merely a theoretical possibility there but is actually happening, which can be considered IMO. Not that this is the prevailing campus attitude, but if you are the one who gets busted because of this outlier person,who may still be out there,that may be a problem. </p>

<p>Schools, and local laws, vary evidently on how likely external law enforcement will become involved in pot incidents. Something bad like this happened to a friend’s kid on another campus, and as a result my wife was repeatedly embarrassing my son by asking about these policies on our college tours. Policies, and laws, differ, and this could be important. It would not shock me if my kid smoked pot some time while in college, and I for one would not want him to possibly get a record for that. YMMV.</p>

<p>[I’m reminded of the Steely Dan song about such incident years ago at Bard College, My Old School, people do not necessarily take these things lightly].</p>

<p>Having said all the above, the fact is OP has only been there one semester, and may have a different relative evaluation of things after three semesters.</p>

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<p>Disclaimer: I visited Grinnell for two days last year as part of an admissions-paid fly-out program. A good friend of mine is currently attending and loves it.</p>

<p>

Actually, I would warn prospies not to put too much stock in what they observe in any single visit. My senior year, I visited Grinnell with high expectations and sat in on an intro linguistics class. I’m pretty sure that I, a visiting high school student, talked the most of anyone in the 20+ person class. The professor would ask a question and there would be silence. It was pretty disappointing, but I reminded myself that one class, one day, is hardly representative of an institution.</p>

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<p>well, my S is the one who I said that about, and he currently attends and is loving it. No disappointments in classroom experiences. Your point is a good one, though, because if he had had the experience you did on the admitted student visit, he probably would not have picked Grinnell. </p>

<p>I met someone from the East Coast at orientation whose son picked Grinnell over an Ivy and another better known New England LAC because he had the best classroom visit of any school and he felt like the students there were “his kind of people.” (which were the exact same words my son used in talking about the school). I have no idea who that person was, so I just hope that he is happy in his choice! </p>

<p>I guess you really just have to take a chance anytime you pick a school.</p>

<p>Keilexandra, don’t know how often you come back to Grinnell forum, but you might be interested to know that they are hiring a linguistics professor! This will beef up the concentration considerably.</p>

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<p>^Wow, that’s great! When I visited Grinnell, the intro ling professor–who is tenured in computer science–told me honestly that he was making a third request for an additional linguistics line, and if that request was denied, he didn’t foresee a very rosy future for linguistics at Grinnell. So I’m very happy that they have chosen to support linguistics; in comparison, Williams fired their lone linguistics professor last year (denied tenure).</p>

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<p>S1 had one of his best class visits at Grinnell - an African American Lit class. Said both the prof and the students were hyper-engaged.</p>

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<p>“Anger at perceived hypocrisy in the administration” was an unfortunate, real situation in my experience. Seemed like the people I liked on the staff soon left because of poor management, and that contributed to my frustrations in areas of student life. The academics were quite strong.</p>

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<p>I thought my kid posted this, but when I asked him, he said he hadn’t. He agrees 100% with the OP and finds Grinnell quite disappointing. He is giving it one more semester and plans to fill out transfer apps in the fall for spring 2012. OP, you are not alone in your impressions; it seems like lots of Grinnell kids feel the way you do, and the administration seems determined to make matters worse and to silence any criticism rather than respond to students.</p>

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<p>I just wanted to clarify my criticism of the scheduling because it seems like several people are misunderstanding. I totally understand that at any small school, people won’t get all the classes they want. That’s legit. That can even be good if it encourages one to take classes one would otherwise not take. </p>

<p>What’s not legit is the way classes are scheduled. Many classes meet in a bizarre way at different times each day. For example, a section of Calculus met at 9 am one day, 3:45 another day, and 11 am another day. This makes it needlessly hard to design a schedule.</p>

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<p>Any new admits visit Grinnell to see if Dan’s experience is general? I’m going next week. Of all the things Dan wrote, the one I’m most concerned about is scheduling. I’m a serious student, and I can deal with a lot of different social environments, but I would be miserable and feeling that I am wasting my money if I can’t get into most of the classes or sections I want to. I did check the registrar’s site at Grinnell and found that a lot of the classes for spring 2011 were full or overenrolled – the minus sign means that, I think. Any thoughts on that?</p>

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<p>My son, a senior, has never complained about odd scheduling and has gotten into most classes he wanted. He’s a history major.</p>

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<p>As a parent, I take this “anger” at the administration with a grain of salt. The students at Grinnell love to speak out on whatever bothers them, it seems to me. I would imagine the self-governance system also creates a feeling that what the students say should go, but the reality is, they are still part of an institution and they don’t hold all the power…Everything that I’ve seen about the school tells me they’re willing to listen and adjust when the student response is very strong on something. </p>

<p>When I read the student newspaper (and the wonderful satirical one), I see that students like to talk about what bothers them, and that’s great!! The newspaper used to have a column called “Rants” where the students could complain about anything, but they don’t any more. Don’t know why. I do have to say, I was very disappointed by a student article that lashed out at the Counseling Dept for a policy regarding canceled visits when a psychiatrist comes on campus. I called the administration to get the facts, and it was not at all the way the students presented it on the opinion page. But, even in this case, the cancellation policy was modified in response to reaction. </p>

<p>As the parent of a first-year, I can’t address the scheduling issue. My suggestion for curiousitydog would be to contact the registrar’s office and see what someone there has to say. My son has so many different courses he wants to take, that having conflicts might help his decision-making I guess!</p>

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<p>actually, now that I think of it, the link to the story on the counseling services was originally posted by the OP. It got me so upset reading it, particularly with the heading that OP put on it, that i called the school to verify and learned that this depiction was very inaccurate.</p>

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<p>sorry, posted again by mistake</p>

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<p>Sdoncc didn’t really address my criticism; she just discounted it because she believes that “students at Grinnell love to speak out on whatever bothers them, it seems to me [and she] would imagine the self-governance system also creates a feeling that what the students say should go, but the reality is, they are still part of an institution and they don’t hold all the power.” </p>

<p>That’s not legit. She also writes about how I posted a link to an editorial in the college newspaper which she claims was inaccurate because she claims a college official told her it wasn’t true. I guess it’s up to the reader to decide whether the college newspaper or her recollection of a conversation is more accurate. I’m not sure what it has to do with this thread.</p>

<p>I think it’s up to the reader to decide if my criticisms are important. If you feel that having a class that meets a different time each day is not an unnecessary burden on your schedule, then that’s totally fine with me. But I think you should really consider my actual post and not the weird straw-man argument others have posted.</p>

<p>As I said before "I totally understand that at any small school, people won’t get all the classes they want. That’s legit. That can even be good if it encourages one to take classes one would otherwise not take.</p>

<p>What’s not legit is the way classes are scheduled. Many classes meet in a bizarre way at different times each day."</p>

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<p>I normally only post about people’s specific arguments without addressing their motivations and how they might affect their views, but because sdoncc feels it’s necessary to post that she believes my views should be taken with a grain of salt because she believes “the self-governance system also creates a feeling that what the students say should go,” I will briefly mention my view of what motivates her.</p>

<p>I think that people get a lot of their identity from the organizations they are affiliated with. This can be good and cause people to be happy and work hard to make their organizations better. But it can also be bad and cause people to avoid seeing flaws because they view criticism of an organization they identify with as criticism of themselves. The fact that her son goes to Grinnell must make up a large part of sdoncc’s identity because of the amount of time she spends discussing it on college confidential as she has over 1100 posts. I believe that the views of people who identify so much with an organization that they spend much of their time discussing it online should be taken with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if this sounds mean-spirited. I don’t intend it to seem that way. I regret that this thread degenerated into conversation about whose views should be “taken with a grain of salt” (aka whose views are unimportant). I believe that this sort of conversation where a person is criticized, rather than their ideas is dangerous because it leads to others not engaging with views that upset them.</p>

<p>Anyway, I hope from now on all posters can avoid ad-hominem attacks on each-other and stick to discussing the perspectives discussed here.</p>

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<p>I will be the first to tell you that I have an unhealhy obsession with this forum! And, you really are probably correct in your assessment of me. Bravo! </p>

<p>But, first, I said I could not address the scheduling issue.</p>

<p>I’m linking the previous thread here to show what I’m talking about in terms of how some attacks on the administration are made. As a parent, I took what you said very seriously by virtue of the thread title and what was written about in the paper, so seriously that this was the first thing I’ve ever read about on CC or in the S&B that warranted me contacting the administration about anything.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/grinnell-college/1083204-grinnell-bans-students-counseling-services-after-missing-one-appointment.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/grinnell-college/1083204-grinnell-bans-students-counseling-services-after-missing-one-appointment.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I agree about not making this ad hominen. </p>

<p>But, there are many things that go on Grinnell’s campus that students engage in discussion about and battle the administration about, and I never said that’s bad – in fact, I think it’s good – and there are many decisions the administration makes that are not good – but just because that has happened, I do take exception with the argument that the administration is “bad” or “unresponsive.” </p>

<p>MY answer anyway about Grinnell students complaining was meant as a way to give prospies a feel for what I perceive as a personality trait, I guess you could call it, of the student body. And again, I dont’ mean it as a bad trait: I think it’s an example of a student body that loves to speak its mind, and right whatever wrongs it sees!</p>

<p>So, yes, here I am on CC again. But, really, this is my problem, not yours. (And believe me, I’m not the only one on this forum with WAY too many posts and there are many threads that pop up about our ridiculous obsession).</p>

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<p>btw, when I read the article linked above, the opinion that the administration “lied” to the students about off-campus availability really supports what I’m saying, IMO. No one lied. They made a mistake in figuring out how many students would be on campus that semester, and had rescinded some off-campus living approvals. Was this a good thing to do when students had already made plans? Probably not. But if a student believes that the school “lied”, then I guess they will feel that the administration is bad and unresponsive.</p>

<p>Students were right to feel upset at this whole situation with off-campus living, but I guess the administration was caught in a bad situation with the need to fill dorms, and made students unhappy by backtracking. </p>

<p>Look, Dan, you gave this thread the heading of “things prospies should consider.” I consider it an obligation to present another take if I see it differently.</p>

<p>And now, I will REALLY try to get off the computer so I’m not late for where I’m supposed to be. </p>

<p>I remember when I first started looking on forums (not college, but another subject) for information, I thought these people were such losers when I saw how many times they posted. Well, I’ve become one of those people, and like I said, I"m the first to admit it! Dan, you’ll be happy to know that my face turned bright red when I saw what you said about me.</p>

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<p>Well I take “anger at the administration” with a 50lb bag of road salt. </p>

<p>People, please see what an incredible opportunity for an education that you have. Everything that is good in a college education is there for you for the asking. </p>

<p>Hey, I’d run the company where I work a lot differently if I was in charge, but I’m not. Just work within the (generous) parameters and take advantage of this incredible education that so many young people would give their eye teeth for.</p>

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<p>I want to add that I did address Dan’s criticism of the scheduling by saying I didn’t know and that curiousitydog should ask the registrar. So far in two semesters at the school, my son’s classes all meet at the same time each day they are scheduled. I think readers of this forum should check the facts for themselves. I don’t know how many classes meet on such an irregular schedule as Dan suggests, and this is definitely something a prospie should look into. </p>

<p>And here I am again on the forum. What can I say? It’s like potato chips for some. I keep thinking about going back for just one more…</p>

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<p>SDonCC: Don’t stop posting. As the parent of an admitted prospect, I’ve found your active interest (and that of others) to be very helpful. Thank you.</p>