<p>Whoa there mini. For those of us who are not CEO's of major companies, salaries have not been increasing rapidly. Tuition increases of 5-7% seem common.</p>
<p>Tuition increases of 5-7% seem common.</p>
<p>If you check income and asset statistics with the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census, you will see that income/assets of those in the top 5% of the population (roughly $160k income annually and above) have risen slightly faster than tuition increases over the past 15 years. </p>
<p>"So did state school tuitions rise out of need or just because they could because privates were doing so?"</p>
<p>Mostly, I THINK, because of lack of state support, coupled with the fact that, unlike university research, undergraduate education is a real loser and financial sinkhole. The prestige private universities (as opposed to the LACs) figured that out a long time ago.</p>
<p>zagat:</p>
<p>"But if your EFC is more than $50K, you're making serious money and a look at priorities is probably in order." OR you've saved money.</p>
<p>calmom, thanks for the info that the EFC includes expectations of BORROWING. I am naive and did not know. I do hate the idea of borrowing, but now I better understand the number. </p>
<p>I am learning alot from this process. Thanks to all of you for helping me, and I am really embarassed that I am so naive. For one thing I would <em>never</em> have expected that I would be considered upper middle class. I will go to a bar and hear music if the cover is $6, but balk at $10. My house was $80K. Though I went to college, my partner did not. We have very little savings or retirement, having only had "real" jobs for the last decade. I feel like I am struggling, but clearly I am doing well compared to some others. MY EFC is 42K, my income is 110K. It just seems like the FAFSA really expects a lot of debt.</p>
<p>onetimeparent, the decision must be different for each family and child. I would not look at merely the cost, but at the career your child plans to go into, what careers in that field pay, the likelihood that your child will remain in that field or move into a more lucrative one and how much debt the child wants to carry into adulthood. It doesn't makes sense to go into hock if your child wants to go into a low-paying career, where it would be nearly impossible to pay off the loans in say a 5 year period. Is your child willing to take on that kind of debt? Are you? Are you willing for your child to move back home after college to pay off the debt? I believe college debts should be paid off first, before one takes on any further obligations, marries, etc. Otherwise it's hanging over their heads for much of their career-building adult lives.</p>
<p>Other factors. If you pay that much for an education will your child definitely graduate college? If not, the earning power may be limited. Is there a cheaper college that offers a similar education? Does your child need to go to a private school? Some students need more nurturing, smaller classes, closer relationships with profs, more mentoring. Those students should go to a more expensive school where they can get that kind of attention. If your child can thrive at a larger state school, I'd say, these are your options. Go to a school I can afford and graduate without debt. Go to a school I can't afford, and graduate with debt. If the child can't function at that type of school (literally would not be able to do well and graduate) then I would feel a stronger obligation to pay for the more expensive school.</p>
<p>"If your child can thrive at a larger state school, I'd say, these are your options."</p>
<p>Unfortunately, not all States have quality universities with suitable programs. OOS tuition payments can be high enough to make one think twice about that option.</p>
<p>Late to the discussion, but nonetheless:</p>
<p>We strangers can't answer a question like this. There are too many factors only you know. And these things will vary with your child and the range of schools being considered.</p>
<p>Think about the following:</p>
<p>A state U is cheaper, of course, but not $40K per year cheaper. Do the math, and in some states the difference is more like 20K, and can be even less with financial aid.</p>
<p>State Us typically have much larger classes, more TAs, more scheduling difficulties. It can even be tough for some kids to finish in four years, depending on major. (so even less cost difference...) Whether this matters depends on the kid. </p>
<p>Some majors can actually be better at State Us. Again, depends on the kid, and the state!</p>
<p>State Us are frequently more diverse socioeconomically (but less so than in my college days!), and certainly w/r/t the kind of students attending. This can be good or bad, depending, again, on your kid! Is he easily distracted by peers? Does she thrive having a broad range of friends? Only you know...</p>
<p>Final note: Folks like you (and my spouse and I, too) do get treated rather unfairly by the fin aid system. The guy who worked his whole life in a state job with great benefits and retirement plan has those bennies ignored in fin aid calculations. Those of us who must provide for ourselves get every penny counted. Not fair, IMHO.</p>
<p>onetimeparent:
With $110K income, you are over the median income of 90% of households in the country. In 2004 the median household income was a whopping $44,389. </p>
<p>Gives you some idea of the very small percentage that can readily afford the $40K+ schools for their kids...</p>
<p>We really need to know more. Is your kid a shy violet (better off in a smaller LAC.) Any chance at merit aid? (If your kid gets a $10,000 scholarship at a small LAC costing total of $35,000, your cost is $25,000, the difference between it and big-state U may only be only $5,000 a year. And if it takes your kid 5 years to graduate from big state U, as opposed to 4 years at little LAC - the total cost difference is zero.)</p>
<p>Weenie, yes, I am <em>astounded</em> that I am earning more than 90% of other people. Astounded. </p>
<p>I do not feel like I am living a "well-off" life. It is amazing to me. I feel lucky to have a job. I feel I am contributing to society and paying my share of taxes. I give to charitable causes that I feel need help. I manage to pay my bills. Somehow. I have a part-time job in addition to my regular job.</p>
<p>Where I am in my life, in my part of the US, it doesn't feel like I am in a better position than 90% of my fellow worker bees. That's what I meant when I said I was learning alot from this discussion. I am not whining, I am prepared to "drop out of the middle class" when I retire--not a great option, but I realize that with my lack of planning that may be my only option!</p>
<p>This whole college thing is surreal. I think at one point a college education was equivalent to the cost of a moderate car. No longer so!</p>
<p>edad, doesn't each state have at least one excellent public school? The west coast states do.</p>
<p>And many East coast states do not, eg. MA. Okay, maybe. But not excellent, not at all like Berkeley or UCLA, or Mich, or UWisc-Madison.</p>
<p>I was thinking about New England. I maybe wrong, and would be glad to here others' theories, but until well into the 20th century New England was populated primarily by the working class--factory workers, farmers, fishermen. The elites who sent their children to Harvard and Yale had no interest in spending for public colleges.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am <em>astounded</em> that I am earning more than 90% of other people. Astounded. I do not feel like I am living a "well-off" life. It is amazing to me. I feel lucky to have a job.
[/quote]
Please don't take offense, but I am astounded that an individual with one child could be earning $110K annually and not feel extremely comfortable, especially with the lifestyle you describe (avoiding expensive nights out, etc.). I have never earned more than about $75K annually, my usual income is very close to median ($45-$55K - I'm self-employed so it can fluctuate) -- and I live in the very expensive SF bay area.... and I feel "comfortable"... or at least "manageable". I mean, I also have a very frugal lifestyle, but I have all the basic comforts of a middle-class lifestyle: a small home in the burbs, 2 cars, etc. If I had to pay full cost for the state u on my own, I could pull it off (with loans, of course) -- and I'll be paying slightly less than that for a private college with need-based aid. </p>
<p>So I'm wondering where the money goes when someone with a frugal lifestlye earns $110K. Taxes? Private schooling? Paying off old consumer debt? Medical bills? </p>
<p>I don't mean to attack you or be intrusive -- so please don't feel obligated to answer or explain yourself.... it's just that I have little fantasies about what I would do if I earned $100K a year, and right now the fantasy involves being able to fly out to visit my daughter in NY a couple of times a year. (On my current income, she will be going out on her own for college in the fall -- it's a one-way ticket on Jet Blue for her, an extra roundtrip airfare +the cost of a hotel room in Manhattan if I go). I guess I am lucky that I am good health and don't have any extraordinary or unusual expenses... but if I can do it, I just don't see what's so impossible for someone who earns more than twice as much as me. Yes - it does require taking on debt or delaying retirement or making some other adjustments.... but I don't remember ever thinking that putting 2 kids through college was going to be cheap or easy. </p>
<p>I mean, I've just spent this afternoon snacking on sushi (the California rolls that the supermarket sells in the deli section for around $6) -- and it sure doesn't feel like poverty to me. Both my kids spent time living abroad - my son in rural Thailand, and my daughter in Russia - and came home feeling that it was almost obscene the way we live, in terms of what we take for granted such as the size of our home and number of computers and tv sets we have inside it. (No wonder people in other countries think Americans are all rich). </p>
<p>I've done the math, and at least for a small family, every +$1 in earnings is an increase of 44 cents for the EFC -- obviously there is a tax bite, too -- but even if the family only keeps 20 cents on the dollar, that's 20% more discretionary money that they have -- so as far as I can tell, the $110K earner comes out at least $12K ahead of the $50K earner on the financial aid formulation.</p>
<p>Yes - I do wish that it could be easier, though I am also mindful of the fact that public education costs can be very reasonable for a student who is willing to live at home. My son's tuition at a CSU next year will be $3000 annually, which is far less than the amount I paid annually for his pre-school. We do have choices.</p>
<p>MrsP: No. Actually relatively few States have even a single U which would be considered excellent.</p>
<p>I can think of a lot of places where $110K would not "feel" like a lot of $-Boston, NY, DC--all places where the tax burden is high and so is cost of living (housing, both heating AND cooling expenses, etc.)
That being said onetime, I think you are falling prey to a kind of emotional blackmail that is part and parcel of the branding and marketing of higher education.<br>
I hightly recommend this article: <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/articles/051010crat_atlarge%5B/url%5D">http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/articles/051010crat_atlarge</a>
to give you a sense of perspective about things.</p>
<p>The Digmedia-How-Much-Can-I-Comfortably-Afford-Rule-of-Thumb: Unless you are burdoned by huge debts, have a California-style mortgage payment, or have large medical expenses, you should be able to squeeze out 1% of your annual income per month for college expenses without having to borrow or dip into savings. If you have college savings, add to that number one-third* of your *college savings<a href="not%20retirement">/i</a>. For example, if you have $14,400 in college savings, that would be $4800 per year or $400 per month. So for $110K, the salary component equates to $1100 per month, or 13,200 per year. Lets assume you have the $14K+ in savings, so that would be another $4800 or a total of $18,000 per year.</p>
<p>This is a very rough guide, but what I used to figure out what I could "afford." $18K will cover the cost at most state schools (tuition plus room and board).</p>
<p>So in your example, you might want to talk with your kid and say, "I can afford $20,000 per year (rounding up). Our EFC is too high to expect any financial aid, but some merit aid is possible at some schools. If you choose a school that will cost more that $20,000 per year, plus whatever merit aid you can get, we may not be able to come up with the difference, unless you can help cover the gap with summer jobs or work on campus."</p>
<hr>
<p>*yes, I know that at one-third per year, that's not enough to cover four years, but I'm assuming that some of that will be replenished as possible.</p>
<p>Mombot, thanks for posting that link. Great article.</p>
<p>You could do what my parents did and agree to pay only the price of a state school education (we'll see if they can pull it off). Trust me, that creates an incentive for your child to look for merit aid. </p>
<p>As for the retirement money...I'm still in high school, but from everything I've heard, I'd rather take on the debt myself now than leave my parents to eat cat food when they're 80 (as I think my mom once put it) because they spent their retirement money on me.</p>
<p>"Actually relatively few States have even a single U which would be considered excellent."</p>
<p>But I'm not convinced (though I stand ready) that, for the vast majority of students, if you had the extra $100k to spend over and above the cost of the state university (but no more than that) that the "high-priced spread" is a better value than the "non-excellent one plus the educational opportunities that this $100k could purchase". </p>
<p>$100k can buy an awful lot educationally speaking beyond the 120 weeks or so (that's all it amounts to) one spends inside the confines of our august houses of higher learning.</p>