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<p>Actually relatively few States have even a single U which would be considered excellent.<<</p>
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<p>Maybe excellent (a la Berkeley) is a tall order, a lot of states have a state school that would be perfectlyfine--and, in fact, a lot of smart kids in the state go to the state schools. I'm thinking of U of O in Oregon, U of W in Washington, U of Utah in Salt Lake City, U of Arizona, as examples. I am less familiar with New England schools, though.</p>
<p>E, I don't want to get into an argument about specific schools. Of your list I am only familar with 2. One I consider a dog and the other sort of a hidden gem. For any of the 4 you listed, you would need to wonder if the OOS costs of $25-30k are worthwhile.</p>
<p>And again, it depends on the department within a school. Many schools that are considered ho-hum overall might have some "hidden gem" departments that are highly ranked. For example, Ohio university (I think it's now 109 or something in the USNWR rankings; 52nd in publics), has an excellent department in The Scripps School of Journalism - ranked in the top 10 journalism schools.</p>
<p>It's funny - my own mother can't figure out why spouse and I are spending the money we are on college for our D. Different families value education differently. </p>
<p>Regarding how much one can afford at what income level (like the 1% rule above), until you know more than you ever will about a family, how can you jump to any conclusion? A family could be helping an elderly parent, paying off medical bills, etc. etc. We don't know.</p>
<p>"It's funny - my own mother can't figure out why spouse and I are spending the money we are on college for our D. Different families value education differently."</p>
<p>That doesn't necessarily follow. Different families may value different colleges, and colleges v. other educational opportunities (including graduate or professional schools) differently.</p>
<p>Someone should do a study on who the people are that pay for top dollar educations when it is a big sacrifice. Are they those who have elite educations themselves? Are they those who don't have elite educations and believe they would have done better with one? Who are the people who make $100K/yr and have saved enough to pay for an ivy education?</p>
<p>wow, i have learned a lot from this discussion!
thank you thank you</p>
<p>I was so nervous about posting something to the forum. </p>
<p>Partly, as I said before, because I am poor at planning and at finances, and I knew I was exposing myself to ridicule, but the comments have been helpful and the discussions and resources were productive. I hope that this has helped others besides me.</p>
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<p>For any of the 4 you listed, you would need to wonder if the OOS costs of $25-30k are worthwhile.<<</p>
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<p>For out of state kids, the extra costs would not be worth it. The issue for me is whether smart in state kids could get a decent education at a good price at their state schools--for the states I listed, I believe so.</p>
<p>I am most familiar with Utah, since that is where I went to high school and college. With 2 exceptions (Baylor, USNA), all of the smart kids from my high school class went to either U of U or BYU (neither ranked particularly high in any ranking, although certain departments may be). Many went on to get MDs, PhDs, JDs, MBAs, etc. at more prestigious universities.</p>
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<p>Who are the people who make $100K/yr and have saved enough to pay for an ivy education?<<</p>
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<p>Now this is a good question. What motivates such people? </p>
<p>H and I went to the same middling (in terms of selectivity) large university. I went to a small super-selective law school and he went to a large state U for his PhD. </p>
<p>I found the small size of the law school made for a really nice learning environment. We decided that if our kids wanted to have that sort of experience on the undergrad level, we'd try to accommodate. Thus we saved (and are still saving) $$--to give our kids choice. </p>
<p>What motivates us? Education has always been important to H and me.</p>
<p>We met at a large state u. My parents didn't see the value of private education, but after college I met people who had attended smaller (usually private) schools. I loved college, but their experiences were much different from mine, and better, I'd say. These schools were generally not ivies or anything close -- they were small regional colleges that stressed community and alumni ties. Those grads felt like they were truly a part of a tradition; I felt like a number, although I made good friends and received a good education.</p>
<p>We wanted to offer that choice to our kids, and started saving for college when the older one was not even a year old. S1 chose a large state school. S2 is going private, and we are glad that we offer each the choice.</p>
I caveated my statement by assuming no extraordinary expenses. The reason I stated the "rule" (obviously different for each family) is that I was once very worried that I would never be able to pay for my kid's college. This rule was given to me by a friend who had 3 kids in college at the same time. The more I looked at it, the better I felt. Yes I could conserve (I had no extraordinary expenses) and meet that 1%, and it gave a fairly solid base. We only had enough saved for about one year of college, and when tuition bills come due, we pay from the 529 plan. So one year is now over and guess what? We still have a year's savings in the 529 plan. How? By replacing it whenever we can - any bonuses, tax refunds, etc, go directly back into the plan.</p>
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I so disagree. There are certain programs and certain departments that make the O-O-S worth it. Plus, in our case (O-O-S in a state university), merit scholarships cover over two-thirds of the tuition anyway.</p>
<p>Digmedia-I agree that perhaps my statement painted with a little too broad of a brush. </p>
<p>Fact is, some OOS schools can be cheaper than in state schools--not only because of the financial packages but some states are just a lot cheaper than others when it comes to tuition, room and board.</p>
<p>(Written from CA where yearly in state costs can be over $20K per year!)</p>
<p>Interesting. I thought it was well worth spending a lot of money (well, not a ton, $8k/year) on high school, but I could never spend $40k/yr on college. Not only are we unwilling to make the sacrfices that would entail, but I frankly just don't think it's worth it (for MY kids). Neither one is looking at a program so scarce or selective that it could be justified in my mind. I guess I think that at the college level they will have to start to move into that realm of "you'll get out of it what you put into it." (Again, I'm only talking about MY kids.)</p>
<p>Now surely, if we had a ton of money I wouldn't flinch at sending them wherever. But, we have stuff we (husband and I) want to do and life goals still to be pursued - and they aren't free (darn). Aren't there any other parents who feel that way?</p>
<p>Absolutely, weenie! There are many, many colleges out there that do not cost an arm and a leg if your child has fairly good grades and can get good merit aid. This fall we will have two kids in private OOS colleges and will pay less then $40,000 for both. This is about the same price we would pay for in state Penn State. We told our kids the amount we would pay and that they would have to take out loans if they wanted to go above that number. Both kids stayed under and I think we're all happy.</p>
<p>I lived in Europe for several years and most of my friends there would agree with Weenie. They live far less child-centered lives. They were shocked by us American expats who would not leave our infants with babysitters to go on vacation. The belief there was that you do not sacrifice your own wants for your children's. Is it any wonder college in Europe can be a fraction of the price it is here?</p>
<p>Yet I think most Americans feel guilty not stretching to send their kids to the best school they can get into.</p>
<p>I think that's very recent, and it's not universal. It is true in SOME circles--a logical extension of the yuppie baby boomer fretting over every little decision involved in childrearing. </p>
<p>I know many families who are completely unapologetic about telling their kids they'll cover some percentage of in state public and if the kid wants to spend more, either the kid finds scholarships or borrows. </p>
<p>We are lucky here though in that our state school is ranked pretty high. It's also got a strong alumni network; if you want to live in Seattle a degree from UW will open plenty of doors, and so kids who go there do really well. It's also well enough known they can do well in other parts of the country. </p>
<p>There are a handful of schools that I would consider worth the extra money because they would deliver an experience qualitatively different and probably more challenging than my kid could get at UW, but quite frankly kids here are better served by just going to UW or even WSU than taking on debt for a second tier or below school.</p>
<p>I guess I get what you all are saying, but I haven't found anything else to spend the money on. Our plans call for downsizing to a little house in S. Jersey, and a lot of writing, biking, kayaking, etc. None of it costs much. Anything I'd spend the money on if I withheld it from school would feel silly--and we are definitely not rich. I also don't think it's baby boomer silliness to put your children first--it's basic instinct, to me. My mom operated tht way, too, and I'd feel pretty awful if I didn't pay it forward.</p>
<p>Nicely said Garland. I would, too. I won't go into unrealistic debt, but the vacations, fine dining, etc. can wait for a few years. I guess I'm still just a child centered yuppie.</p>
<p>I thought we were talking about spending retirement funds or postponing retirement, certainly not vacations and "fine dining."</p>
<p>The point being: you do not know what the future will bring. If you have the option of paying for an expensive undergrad degree for your kids and you do not have to curtail saving for your own retirement, then that is terrrific. But nobody should have to feel guilty if "all" that they can cover without jeopardizing their own long term security is in state public universities. </p>
<p>You might live a lot longer than you think; you might have a health problem that prevents you from working all the way to your planned retirement age, or you could have an expensive and debilitating physical condition in retirement. Your investments could return less than you anticipate. There are a lot of unknowns; it seems risky to me to cut corners on retirement savings because your kid wants to go to an expensive school. To indulge your child's wants before you assure basic financial security for the family is is not "paying it forward." Do you really want to have your 45 year old kids have to decide whether or not to pay your medical expenses or send THEIR kids to college?</p>