[this is a longer post than I intended but making the lists ended up being for my benefit]
D is undecided though knows she isn’t interested in engineering, computer sci, or education. No desire for graduate school but that can/will change any number of times in the next 4 years.
We will visit Marist for the first time in early April and she’ll get to stay in a dorm. App is a nicer campus than we imagined but we had low expectations.
App State:
PROS:
In-state so cheap.
Beautiful area in the Blueridge Mtns
2hr drive from home. Close, but not too close.
89% Freshman retention
Wide variety of majors/programs
CONS:
Little student body diversity. 91% from NC
0.9% (!) international
53% 4-year graduation rate 73% 6-year
Relatively few study abroad options
Sleepy town for someone more interested in restaurants and shops than outdoor activities
Mostly known in NC where she does not want to live after college. “My people aren’t here”
MARIST:
PROS:
Received Merit aid so cheapest OOS we saw by a wide margin.
Beautiful area on Hudson River
90-120min to NYC
Relatively many study abroad options including permanent campus in Florence.
More diverse than App but not to the level of a major university.
91% Freshman retention
70% 4-year graduation rate (good compared to App) 78% 6-year
CONS:
“Cheap” is relative. $28,000 net is a lot more than App
Much tougher and more expensive travel.
Relatively few programs/majors
Poughkeepsie is a small city with little to offer and perhaps some safety issues.
Has the rep of being upper-middle class tri-state girls who are quick to form cliques.
Only 2.2% international. stinks but at least better than app.
Congratulations on her acceptances, and merit aid! Yes, very different options in terms of schools and geography.
It sounds like she is leaning Marist and makes some good arguments. That seems reasonable if it is not too onerous financially. (Easy for me to say, not my money.) Maybe see if she still prefers Marist after the April visit.
I do think retention and graduation rates are important, both in direct and less direct ways. I know some freshmen at a school with a pretty high retention rate, and they’ve been disappointed over how many new friends have already left the school.
If she does go there, make sure to visit the Culinary Institute of America some time when you are up there (just over 2 miles from Marist!). It has a beautiful campus, also on the Hudson. You do have to make reservations for student-staffed restaurants very far in advance. But it is also fun just to walk around, and there is nice bakery where you can see the students work.
Why is 91% from North Carolina a con? North Carolina is, in and of itself, a pretty diverse state. You’re going to have kids from urban places like Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro as well as kids from more rural areas, who will have been raised with different cultural backgrounds.
Similarly, why is less than 1% (or Marist’s 2.2%) international students a con? Marist doesn’t seem significantly more diverse than App State in anything other than the fact that a little ove 40% of their students are from outside of New York. The racial/ethnic makeup of the college is similar, as is the percentage of international students.
Going to a public NC university doesn’t mean she’s got to stay in NC. She can move after she finishes college.
I looked at App State’s list of study abroad options and the list is LONG. I don’t understand how this can be interpreted as “relatively few.” I searched for one- or two-semester programs (as opposed to one week, one month, or summer experiences); I stopped counting when I got to 70 and I wasn’t even halfway down the page. They’re a member of the ISEP, which offers many exchange programs (and works to help students overcome financial barriers to studying abroad); they have several faculty-led programs; and students can also study abroad through the big agencies like SIT and CIEE. I even filtered to limit the programs just to exchange or faculty-led programs and still came up with WAY over 50.
Honestly, from looking at your list, App State’s major con from your daughter’s perspective is the sleepy town. I used to live right outside Poughkeepsie and I’m not sure that it’s going to scratch the itch your daughter is looking for…
I read another of your previous posts and from what I recall the basic problem is your daughter does not really want to go to uni in NC, unless it was UNC or NC State? Did she find out on those yet?
I went to App and enjoyed it (and had a successful career) but if she is looking for more of a city-based school, App is definitely not going to make her happy. It seems it really comes down to whether you can afford to pay the money to make her happy and/or if she is the type that understands money is an issue - good luck!! My son understands that cost is a key factor, my daughter still hasn’t been willing to accept it.
Sounds like you are leaning toward Marist; It’s a good university and although Poughkeepsie is nothing to write home about, the Marist campus itself (where she’ll spend most of her time) is wonderful and she’s about 1h30 to NYC by train.
@TTG - Thanks. I grew up in Saugerties and know the Rhinecliff-Poughkeepsie swath fairly well, or at least I did. My wife took classes at CIA though I never got to eat there.
@Juliette - Obviously it’s a personal preference but 91% from any one place is a huge con for us. We live an area 20 miles from Charlotte and 5 miles from the sticks and through state-wide activities have met a significant cross section of people. NC is diverse with respect to itself and perhaps compared to some states but 10 out of 11 in-state students does not a diverse campus make. Marist is better though not as much as we’d hope. The dream school is Syracuse with 19% international. The financial aid package isn’t in yet but I’m not optimistic.
Marist is 78% white which is better than App at 85%. (North Carolina is 71% white so the state’s diversity isn’t entirely mirrored at the school)
The App state abroad list is indeed LONG but most of those programs are available to any student from any college. I didn’t notice a single full semester program operated by App. This matters because in-school programs are a breeze to fit into degree programs without messing up scheduling or finding classes to satisfy requirements. Marist doesn’t have a ton but at least they have some.
@yearstogo - good memory! She was rejected by UNC and waitlisted (i.e. rejected) at State. Of the 192 students who have applied from our school in the last 3 years she has the best numbers to be rejected. Quite an honor. She understands and accepts (I think) that cost is an object. I’ve told her that we will spend the money IF she has a solid reason to go to Marist other than the fact that it isn’t App.
@MYOS1634 - I’m not exactly leaning toward either one yet — I need to visit the campus first and her leaning is what matters. More than anything I’m curious to see how she feels about the people she’ll meet in a dorm. Are they “her peeps”? It will be great if Marist provides a definite Ah-Ha moment, or a Meh moment. Out of many schools, the only Ah-Ha came at Syracuse.
Sorry Syracuse was not an acceptance. Hopefully she can balance getting excited about Marist or App while also waiting to hear back from the Syracuse waitlist, if she wants to do that. The great news is she has great choices and owns her college experience and can make it great. Good luck!
I think she’ll skip the SU waitlist as there’s no point in false hope.
We don’t have final numbers from App yet so I can’t do an A-B comparison and any estimate will be grossed up to include study abroad money. Once everything is in we will meet with our retirement/investment advisor who will tell us if it’s fiscally rational to spend the OOS premium.
Underwhelming Marist visit - I can give details if you wish but not on my phone. Fat finger syndrome.
No other acceptances. 1 reject, 2 waitlist (I.e. reject), 1 underwhelming, and App.
She says it makes her feel like a failure and my heart breaks for her. I know it’s a good school and I know that she can transfer - she does too - but she’s worked her tail off for 3 years only to land at her safety.
Would she consider taking a gap year, working up a new application list, and trying again for fall of 2019? During the time off she coukd de-tox a bit from academia, get a jo, and/or explore some other interests a bit too. It wouldn’t have to be all college applications all the time.