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<p>Congratulations on your D’s latest adventure!! We have friends who have composed songs for Disney films and it was rewarding and fun work for them. Plus even Brent Wagner at UMich credits Disney with helping to save the American musical art form. ;-D</p>
<p>Thanks, MomCares, this is for the division that creates musical theater works for Disney theme parks and cruise lines, not the films.</p>
<p>However, a local girl a little older than my D (who was in school shows with her), wrote the song at the end of one of Disney’s most recent hit animated musicals. Yay for the girls from our little rural town (the other young woman is known nationally at this point). Neither of them are trained as composers or songwriters.</p>
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<p>Well, maybe they were just being nice, but these particular people (who were Broadway veterans) were telling our D (and us…we were at the wrap party with her when the show she was in with them closed) that they were impressed with her and felt she would get more work if she wanted to pursue that without majoring in MT or dance, etc. I do know that they were also offering this advice from their vantage point…and saw that our d had an opportunity by going to school in NYC to pursue other interests if she so desired.</p>
<p>I must admit that a big part of me WISHES she had “gone for it” and was still performing. And part of her does miss it terribly. She has a dancer friend who met her husband while performing on a cruise line (he is a musician). They spent a few months last year together performing on a cruise ship in Europe and of course we all got to see all the beautiful and exciting photos on Facebook. She commented that if this neuroscience thing did not work out, she’d love to be a dancer on a cruise line. 
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<p>I admire all of you who are supporting your kids as they pursue their dreams. And I think it’s wonderful that there are so many different dreams out there to pursue!!</p>
<p>^^Well, THAT’s the key…go after your dreams, whatever they may be.</p>
<p>Even better is having parents support your pursuits.</p>
<p>And don’t worry about what others say to discourage you.</p>
<p>I certainly wasn’t trying to discourage anyone, I just feel that there is more than one road to “Rome”, and was passing on some info we had experienced into the mix.</p>
<p>And I do feel that it is important to go into this with your eyes wide open, hopefully by understanding and accepting the reality of this field it may soften future broken hearts.</p>
<p>-Said by a mom with a son with a performance degree.</p>
<p>churchmusicmom - it’s never too late! We have a friend who is a nuclear physicist, then a stay at home mom, now at age 40-something, a cabaret singer with a growing audience! Things do change.</p>
<p>Very helpful input here. It’s amazing how you can get completely opposite opinions on things depending on who you talk to!</p>
<p>D has been told exactly this, over and over-- in fact it seems the more successful the actor, the more likely he/she is to say this. </p>
<p>But D is D-- she sees the world through theatre-- which is a pretty wonderful literary/historical lens. She feels as if she has waited all these years and NEEDS to immerse herself in theatre now. </p>
<p>As amtc points out, lives are so long now they not only have second acts, but third and fourth and fifth acts. I’m figuring she will go where theater leads her–(she is also very funny about what she’s doing for the world by not trying to become a brain surgeon.)</p>
<p>I have to agree with others (in fact I have never heard any not-for profit MT educator disagree): If you can remotely see yourself in any other career besides that of a performer, please go do that other thing. This business is way to competitive, there are way too many persons trying to be performers - there are not enough job opportunities. there is very little stability.
Okay - we got that out of the way. Next to consider a path if you do want to perform. Yes there are cases of persons having wonderful careers with no academic training at all, yes there are those who attend mediocre training programs, or who just keep their foot in the door and still go on to have good careers. However, by and large and on the average, students who attend really good training programs are better prepared and fare, on average, much better than those who attempt the same course without concerted study and preparation. This is true in life - some of the richest people in the world dropped out of school - but, for the most part, folks with higher degrees make higher wages. Performing arts is a tough and often dicey game - which is why I say do everything you can to increase your odds. Some say “luck” is what happens when a good opportunity meets good preparation. So in terms of the discussion at hand, I offer this - go into this whole hog, jump in with both feet - do not have a back-up career - that usually assures you will go into the back-up career. Along that line, if you find (after a four year degree and two years trying to “make it”) at age 26 you are not going to make it as a performer - you could then do 2 additional years in pre-med, spent 5 years in med school, and at age 33, have a 35-year career as a doctor. The bottom line, in my opinion, if you really want to do this - get into the very best four year BFA university that you can afford - go for the gold! Good luck and best wishes…</p>
<p>Very good stuff here!</p>
<p>One of the advantages that I see for majoring in MT (and maybe one of the only ones) is education in the business of marketing yourself - how to get an agent, what your headshots should look like, how to prepare for auditions, making and using contacts in the business, etc. The business is much more complicated and competitive than it used to be so every little advantage helps. The top MT schools seem to be fairly good at helping performers “launch” but, of course, what they do after that is the performer’s responsibility. </p>
<p>Top MT schools also provide contacts. Both of my kids have been performing professionally since they were young and all of their work now comes from past contacts. S2 has not been on any cold auditions in years. And good agents help. </p>
<p>“Training” is available in all sorts of venues but the business aspect is hard to pick up in other places.</p>
<p>megpmom, you are so right that contacts and networking are a major aspect of this field and I also have to say how one opportunity often leads to others and this is what is happening for my own kid. Another thing to mention is that you never know where things will lead in one’s career and the many directions it may take. </p>
<p>My kid is a performer in a few areas…musicals, plays, musical comedy revues, and as a singer/songwriter of original songs in concerts and on CD. Even in this area, one thing has led to another many times now. She doesn’t even audition very much. </p>
<p>Then she wrote ONE musical before graduating college as a project she wanted to accomplish before graduating and also to create a work for herself to be in (she played a lead in it). That ONE musical has now led to MANY opportunities that she could never have predicted. She had NO intentions of writing anything else but now has several commissions to do just that and these are now becoming her “survival” jobs even though in themselves, they are very cool professional jobs (but she’ll never give up performing for them). That one college musical she wrote went on a journey that led to every next thing in that journey…First, the summer after graduation (a 30 min. version of the musical was put on at Tisch before she graduated), she put on a concert version of the musical much further developed at Joe’s Pub at The Public Theater in NYC. Then her musical was selected to be one of two new musicals to be workshopped at Yale’s Institute for Music Theater, complete with an Equity cast and a Broadway director. That first musical was selected as a finalist for a Richard Rogers Award. Then, ONE song from her musical was chosen to be showcased at the National Alliance for Musical Theater’s Festival of New Works in NYC which producers from the industry attend (not the public) from all over NYC and all over the country. That ONE song from her musical that was showcased led to first being signed by a theater literary agent at one of the top agencies, and then it led to being commissioned by Oregon Shakespeare Festival to write/compose a new musical for them (they attended the showcase) and she was a complete unknown who had written one musical ever (the other commissions went to Broadway composers/writers), and also from that one song in the showcase, Disney became interested in her and just offered her a job yesterday as a writer/composer of new musical theatrical productions. She also was selected as composer in residence from all this too at a theater in NYC for 2012 where she also has a commission to create a new work for them. And the first and only musical she wrote back in college is now selected as a mainstage musical at a BFA program next year. She also submitted that original work and won a MacDowell Fellowship and got to do a residency at the MacDowell Colony recently</p>
<p>She NEVER set out to be a writer/composer and is not even trained in it. But one thing led to another from one project in college and all who then saw it. These writing/composing commissions will now take over as her “survival” jobs instead of some others she was doing like musically directing and teaching musical theater programs. Also, through networking, she was asked to write/compose and star in an original webisode series for a new YouTube channel that just debuted last week and so she is doing all that on the “side” of her performing career which she is heavily immersed in as well. Majoring in Musical Theater has been fine so far for her and all her work since graduation day almost three years ago has been doing SOMETHING in music and theater…and more than ONE thing. A degree can lead to many opportunities and not just performing in a musical, though she does that too and has one coming up at the Sydney Opera House in fact. </p>
<p>Go after your dreams. A college degree can take you places. My D was infatuated with Disney as a kid and I never dreamed she’d write musical works for them. You can’t predict everything.</p>
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<p>In my personal experience, having insurance (a backup plan) does not make me more likely to need the insurance – in fact it has the opposite effect of enabling me to proceed with even MORE confidence! Your mileage may vary. </p>
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<p>This would be great, assuming you could find someone able/willing to PAY for all that re-education (AND are able/willing to devote an additional 6 years of your life to being back in school). In our family’s world of limited resources it made more sense to kill two birds with one stone by completing a double major in 4 years.</p>
<p>I am a fan of following your bliss, and of parents supporting their kids, but I have also been served very well in life by a healthy dose of pragmatism and don’t see that hurting our D at all! ;-D</p>
<p>I certainly appreciate differing opinions and every individual needs to follow there own path. Further, everyone can illustrate their point of view with anecdotal narratives. I chose the “doctor” story because I have two young men who followed that path - of course they are in their 40’s now, so have not yet had a 35-year career (and I know many folks dream about having a doctor in the family)! I could have illustrated my point with my own niece - she was actually doing well - three straight years of Equity tours straight after earning a MT BFA - she chose to go back to school for 1 undergrad year and two more grad years and is now a special ed teacher and quite happy. There are many stories to be told.
My comments do not arise from personal stories but by what I know from dozens of casting agents, agents, producers, directors/choreographers - they appreciate and more often hire the more polished product they see coming from top concentrated MT programs. Yes, they less frequently hire other folks - but, again, I say go with the odds.
Regarding other points made - I have seen, two equally talented students come in as freshmen - it is often the case that the one who make a concentrated effort will typically surpass the one who who is not as focused on the prize - I have seen this often, though not exclusively, in over two decades working at a university setting. Again, my suggestion is to go with the better odds.
Finally, if you do double major - you should expect to attend undergrad from 4.5 to 5 years - it can be done in four - but that requires some extra-semester (like summer sessions) work - that prevents student from being in stock productions which help in developing one for a life in the performing arts. Also, the heavy academic demands during the regular semester might make it more difficult to have time to be cast in school productions.
By the way, I do encourage young folks to experience a broad band of course study within their electives - an educated actor brings more to the table. Also, most folks will not perform their whole lives - so I am a fan of developing other skill sets as you progress - but not a double major while attempting a BFA in performance - “there is a time to every purpose under the sun”.
Anyway, I wish all the best as each pursues their own path and offer what I do with the best of intentions and with the knowledge that each needs to find their own way.</p>
<p>@mtdog71 — couldn’t agree more with your posts! Thanks!</p>
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<p>This is certainly true at most (if not all) BFA programs but is not true at Northwestern. Due to their quarter system, many MT students complete a double major in 4 years, with summers free for theatre and/or internships, in Theatre plus virtually every other subject you can name. </p>
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<p>Again, Northwestern is an exception to this rule. The academics are very demanding, but D has been in school productions every quarter since starting, plus an A Cappella group that rehearses at least 6 hours every week (10-midnight 3x per week).</p>
<p>I agree that more time during the day spent training is more time in the day spent training, and there can be beneficial results from that extra time that MIGHT make the difference in auditions the first couple years after college. This of course assumes the quality of training is equal at both schools, and that the students at both schools are equally able to absorb and apply the information gained during long days of training. I know that vocally, my D could not benefit from any more time spent training/singing every day than what she is currently getting, but she could spend more hours dancing.</p>
<p>Our D made a conscious decision to plan her college years for their impact on her entire life, and NOT just to be best prepared for auditions her first years out of school. She had been told that for most female non-dancer types the late 20s are the hardest time to find professional work in any case as you compete against seasoned actresses who can play young. </p>
<p>I also know that at least this year (my only firsthand data point) the kids from Northwestern had VERY good results from their recent NYC senior showcase. Most of them had interest from far more agents than they could sign with (one girl got 20 interviews). Would those same kids have had even more interest if they’d gotten BFAs? Would the 20 kids at UMich have gotten less if they’d opted for a BA? I actually think most of the kids in the 3 top BFA programs (and probably most of the serious performers at NU as well) could have worked and signed agents before ever starting college - in fact many enter school with full representation and lots of professional credits - so it’s hard to prove how much their college training actually shaped their talent. </p>
<p>I also appreciate differing viewpoints and realize that every kid wants/needs something unique from their college years so there is no single “right” answer. </p>
<p>But as someone who attended a top acting conservatory, worked in theatre professionally and years later returned to school for an engineering degree, I certainly DO understand, from firsthand experience, why many theatre professionals offer advice like that mentioned in the original post.</p>
<p>I got the feeling when MTDog was talking about it possibly taking more than 4 years if double majoring, he was referring to those in a BFA program, not a BA such as Northwestern where a double major should not take more than four years. At NYU, which is a BFA, a double major can be done in four years, though is challenging. Kids do DO it. Some do have some AP credits going into it. Also a minor in another subject w/ the BFA is another possibility. At some BFAs, a double major is not possible and at some, it may take more than 8 semesters to achieve. Those who want to double major, are usually better aimed at seeking a BA degree program. </p>
<p>I’m all for double majors for those who wish to pursue that! I just don’t think someone NEEDS to double major. I don’t think one needs a second major as a “back up plan,” necessarily either. I think a college educated person is much more than their “major.” Lots of people in adulthood are working careers that are not even necessarily related to their college major. I think many careers are looking for educated people, no matter their major (though some careers require specific training such as nursing or engineering, of course). But even English, History, Political Science and Anthropology majors can have successful professional careers that are not all about their college major! In my opinion, a college degree, even in theater as a major, will help someone in life in many career fields. I really could care less what my kids major in. In college, they became educated people. Also, in many theater programs, including the one my kid attended, she did not JUST study theater! She had a wider education and courses as well. </p>
<p>Just because someone majors in MT, it doesn’t mean the only thing they are equipped to do is to sing, dance, and act. I think such graduates can go on to do a myriad of jobs in many fields, not to mention work in the arts in various capacities. </p>
<p>I know my own kid is just one anecdote and she is merely 23 and has been out of college a little less than three years. Still, she has managed to support herself in NYC since her graduation day. Yes, she performs regularly on stage. But she is also paid for skills beyond performing, singing, dancing, and acting. She did not double major and never considered it even though she is a very strong academic student and is interested in many things (as an aside, she keeps up daily with politics and current issues and writes songs and sketches for a performance group she is in that centers around current events and she is very worldly if I must say so!). Anyway, she is also paid to teach classes in voice, music, and MT, accompany classes, shows and individuals, musically direct musicals, and write and compose musicals and other works. She was only trained in singing, acting, and dancing, but that doesn’t mean those are the only things she can do. She is more than that and so are most people. I’m just putting it out there that majoring ONLY in MT can also mean working in various ways beyond on stage. A double major is a cool thing to pursue if you want to, but you don’t HAVE to in order to successfully find work.</p>
<p>As you know, I try to rep the BA’s here as I think they often get short shrift on CC, while I think for many (of course not all) MT kids they offer a great alternative to a BFA and should be considered very seriously as kids weigh their college MT options. ;-D</p>
<p>MomCares, I’m with you. I think a BA degree is a very viable option for those interested in MT or Acting and indeed NU is a phenomenal program! I recommend such schools and degree paths all the time! My own kid only wanted a BFA, but I work with many who consider a BA path actually.</p>
<p>Btw, Soozievt… I think one of your former students is going to be one of the female leads in the NU Freshman musical with D this spring. ;-D</p>