<p>To preface this post I am a deferred EDer. I tell you this so that you know I at one time had a vested interest in gaining admittance to JHU. I no longer have that same intensity to get in as I did last fall, mostly as a result of a full scholarship I am recieving from a top 100 LAC. However, after relooking over these boards I noticed something that caught my eye.</p>
<p>There is a recruited tennis player on this board (not naming names, but you can search and find it easily) who had a 22 ACT, and 1410 new SAT and got in ED. I realize schools can admit whoever the hell they want, but damn... that just kinda of irks the hell out of me. Hopkins is an academic center foremost and for it to obviously disregard that when this person was admitted kind of shows a flaw with Hopkins admission (or maybe just selective school admission in general) in my opinion. Anyway have a nice evening...</p>
<p>Kidding. But on a serious note; who are you to judge? That person very well may be the best tennis player in his/her division, or their state. Perhaps they are an extremely dedicated academic and do very well in school. Either way, if the person isn't a satisfactory test taker, there's a reason why he/she was admitted. And that reason is something that you will simply have to accept and get over.</p>
<p>Sorry, life doesn't seem fair. But there's always a reason, even if you feel it isn't justified.</p>
<p>Yeah, I think that recruited athletes have developed their own talent, just as you have. Colleges need to have a wide array of talented people, whether it be music, academics, writing, sports, journalism. Sports are also very important to the university. Studies have shown a direct correlation between the number of football games a school wins and the number of applicants the following year. And what is JHU really famous for other than academics? Lacrosse!</p>
<p>Had a classmate in my graduating class who was accepted to Harvard for hockey. 1000 on his SAT (old one), average grades, not really any EC's that were apparent.</p>
<p>This phenomenon is not specific to Hopkins, nor is it most rampant at Hopkins.</p>
<p>Maybe he seemed like a much more realistic person. I mean, why do you have to use complex diction everywhere you go. Are you trying to impress us? Deplorable, irked, preface? You sound like the most annoying person alive. I know that might be how you talk, but it is annoying as hell and makes you look extremely fake.</p>
<p>Also, I know what you mean with the stats. Those are low, but lets face it, it is supply and demand. Top colleges have a ton of qualified applicants in terms of academics. Supply is up but demand is met and there is a surplus (aka rejections). Then they have athletes, supply is down and demand is high. They are willing to dip pretty low for top players.</p>
<p>Think about it like this. While those athletes are lacking in the academic department, you are lacking in the athletic department. Currently, if you played no sports and took gym at least, you have what is comparable to a 1200 on the "Athletic Sat" The athlete has a 2400. Oh well.</p>
<p>Btw I know you are just looking for a way to vent, but hey, it happens to the best of us. Good luck at your LAC!</p>
<p>I wouldn't go so far as to insult astrife, but I whole-heartedly agree with what maguo said. Diversity in skill is very very important anywhere.</p>
<p>I wasn't entirely lacking in the sports department... 3 years varsity track/cross country... but I definitely wasn't going to be playing a sport in college...</p>
<p>I do not talk like that... it's how I write/type... to insult me for my diction is just deplorable... hehe I couldn't resist...</p>
<p>I agree with astrife.
Maguo mentioned that Hopkins is most famous for lacrosse after academics. The problem is that Hopkins is by far more well-known for its academics than for anything else. To sacrifice the school's academic integrity for the sake of popularity, increased numbers of applications and a lower acceptance rate is to sacrifice the dignity of the university as an institution of learning. Colleges do not NEED all-star athletes who can't write a decent essay. They may want some of them (for the reasons I just mentioned)...which is a completely different issue.</p>
<p>No one's denying that diversity of talents is important at any school. I have a serious problem with world-class private universities, premised on teaching great students who desire to seek more knowledge, that sacrifice genuine academic potential for athletic prowess. Athletes may develop their skills at large public universities, which likely have better teams and better coaches. (There are exceptions - lacrosse at hopkins being one of them) Every poor-student athletic recruit who is accepted leaves one less spot for an academically strong student who wants to utilize the resources (amazing professors, small classes, bright peers) specific to a tier 1 university. I truly believe that a school that can boast those resources, like Hopkins, is wasting what it has on students who attend solely to gain some athletic footing. </p>
<p>And yes, you can argue that every university is a business...they're trying to make money. But I guess that's my gripe with the capitalist system.</p>
<p>However what you fail to recognize is that universities need school spirit. The student body needs pride, even if it is subconscious, to enjoy itself adequately. I've heard from several friends at Carnegie Mellon that there is an issue revolving around this. They claim that they wish they could value their school beyond academic prowess.</p>
<p>As one of those admitted based off of adacemics, rather than sports, I know I for one will attend the Hopkins Lacrosse games. And trust me, if I couldn't go to those games assured that my school's team would put up a challenge, I wouldn't be as satisfied with my institution.</p>
<p>So the point you are trying to make Jimp... is that Hopkins sports are an avenue through which the school attempts to satisfy its more academic geard students, who give it its prestige. Keep them happy, they'll keep studying and doing great things, and the university thrives.</p>
<p>Duke has a great basketball program, which makes it even more attractive. JHU has a great lacrosse program which makes it even more attractive. These great sports programs create student bond. I'd be stoked to be going to a school that has great sports programs. However, sometimes it's funny how some of the schools with recruited athletes win 1 or 2 football games a year. </p>
<p>Also, I read that the athletes succeed in the real world financially as well as the students who got into college with academics, which tells us that athletics isn't just sports-- it's lesson about winning, bouncing back from losses, teamwork, leadership, etc.</p>
<p>I don't think school spirit necessarily adds to the appeal of a school. Lack of great sports teams doesn't make schools like MIT any less popular among the best and the brightest. As long as you maintain some moderately attractive social atmosphere, I don't understand why you need all-star athletes. Granted school spirit may be many people's final deciding factor in choosing a school, but a lack of school spirit doesn't necessarily take away from the prestige and overall appeal. That's pretty well proven especially by the most elite schools, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Columbia. Not to mention, school spirit doesn't necessarily add to the appeal of a school either. UMich is famous for its school spirit, but it's yield is significantly less than 50%.</p>
<p>Not to mention good academics and good athletics aren't mutually exclusive.Even if you assume you MUST sacrifice some athletic ability for the sake of good academics, that doesn't mean you can't have good teams. I just don't think you NEED to sacrifice academic integrity just for a few amazing players. It's not worth it...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, I read that the athletes succeed in the real world financially as well as the students who got into college with academics, which tells us that athletics isn't just sports-- it's lesson about winning, bouncing back from losses, teamwork, leadership, etc.
[/quote]
100% true. I don't have a problem with universities accepting good sports players with good academic records. But you can get those benefits from sports without giving up the dignity of an academic institution.</p>
<p>I don't think athlete who scored 1400 on SAT or even 1200-1300 damages "the dignity of an academic institution." That's a damn good score considering they come back home around 6-7PM, exhausted, and leave 5-6 AM in the morning to lift weights. They do have work ethic and passion that you all talk about.</p>
<p>Also, people go to MIT/Harvard/Princeton because they're the finest programs in the entire world. But I'm saying if a school-spirit guy had to choose, let's say between Duke and Swarthmore (no offense to Swarthmore it's a great school), I'm sure he/she'd be attracted by the school spirit and the cameron crazies that Duke has to offer.
And you mentioning UMichigan doesn't make sense because I never said people go to certain school just because of its athletic program.</p>
<p>given the small number of students who get a boost in the admissions process as opposed to those who get no favoritism whatsoever, it's nothing to really complain about.</p>
<p>Not to demean a 22 on the ACT, but I believe I got that when I was in 7th grade. It's not a good score no matter how you look at it. As well I had the same "grueling" schedule of practice everday (I ran 50-70 miles a week for 3 years) yet I was able to pull off a competitive score. So that argument won't get you far because many many do it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think athlete who scored 1400 on SAT or even 1200-1300 damages "the dignity of an academic institution." That's a damn good score considering they come back home around 6-7PM, exhausted, and leave 5-6 AM in the morning to lift weights. They do have work ethic and passion that you all talk about.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>OP said 1400 on the new SAT, but even if you don't want to judge based on SAT scores...I'm pretty certain there are athletes accepted to elite schools with VERY low gpas.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And you mentioning UMichigan doesn't make sense because I never said people go to certain school just because of its athletic program.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well..the reason I mentioned UMich was because it's also a school renowned for academics (obviously not to the extent of Harvard and MIT - but it's considered a public ivy and a top 25 university). It, however, has significantly more school spirit than Harvard, MIT, even Duke ...but its yield is lower than all of them. School spirit doesn't necessarily add to a school's appeal.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, people go to MIT/Harvard/Princeton because they're the finest programs in the entire world. But I'm saying if a school-spirit guy had to choose, let's say between Duke and Swarthmore (no offense to Swarthmore it's a great school), I'm sure he/she'd be attracted by the school spirit and the cameron crazies that Duke has to offer.
[/quote]
of course. but 1. i don't think that the number of students who choose Duke over comparable institutions based on school-spirit is significant enough to affect the school's overall appeal. I'd need some numbers, but Michigan's low yield vouches for that. and 2. even if there is a level of increased appeal, I don't think it's comparatively worth it - in principle - to compromise to a huge extent the school's academic dignity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
given the small number of students who get a boost in the admissions process as opposed to those who get no favoritism whatsoever, it's nothing to really complain about.
<p>Ok, I play Baseball and Football, and some folks that don't know me consider me a jock, and I hate that people judge me before they get to know me. It's the kind of stereotypes you're throwing around that hurt the school, not JHU trying to get a top lacrosse player with weaker scores. They know what they're doing, you're just sore about it. They have experts that weigh the options, and make decisions for a living, I'm gonna defer to them on how to admit kids.</p>
<p>Perhaps your intellectual elitism came through in your essay, and they didn't want it.</p>
<p>And there is a huge difference between playing on a team sport and running cross country or track, the dynamic is totally different. You can not possibly understand what it's like to lose in the state semifinals when you are part of a team. I'm not trying to say what you feel is worse, it's just different. JHU may want people that have worked with a team. And there is alot less grabass in cross country, so maybe they like the jock-gayvibe.</p>