thoughts from an alum

<p>A few weeks ago, I received an email stating that Chicago's acceptance rate has plummeted to 8.8%. I know this is a controversial number which represents many things, but admittedly I was proud of the school and my status as an alumnus, and at the very least I think we're finally starting to get the recognition we deserve. It was, however, disheartening that more applicants would be deprived of everything UofC has to offer, and I immediately thought about my own experiences applying to college, how I felt after a rejection from MIT (my proverbial dream school at the time), how college has molded me, and just about everything in between. </p>

<p>So I want to share with you my opinions of the school - its strengths and weaknesses - as well as some background on myself. My intent is to be helpful, but I'm not the best writer, and I apologize if the tone is preachy, whiny, or cheesy. Also of course, everything is IMHO; I realize many students had different experiences which may be more relevant...this is just my own, and I may very well be wrong. If it's any consolation, this will probably be my last post, so you won't have to read my ramblings again.</p>

<p>As I said before, MIT was my goal for college, and after being deferred and then waitlisted, I was finally put out of my misery around May of senior year and prepared myself for Chicago. I was swoll. I had a pretty big ego, being top dog at my HS, and I thought I'd sealed the deal by winning some sci/math prizes whose recipients were usually shoo-ins. Looking back, I completely understand: at the time, I was incredibly immature, slightly petty, generally clueless, and my interview was an historic failure. I count my blessings now that UofC (which, as you know, has surpassed MIT in usnwr) took a chance on me. I guess they saw my academic potential, but even I couldn't stand my 18yo self. More importantly, for various reasons, I don't think I would done as well had I not gone to Chicago. </p>

<p>My first and second years, I wouldn't have known that. Honestly, I hated this school on a number of levels. Being socially awkward, I wasn't proactive in seeking out friends, and Chicago's environment isn't welcoming if, like me, you're introverted. Firstly, Hyde Park is just a terrible place with very little to do with the city. It's not a college town, and it's not a place where you can have a nice dinner, find a comfortable spot to walk around, and hang out. Secondly, there's just a weird party atmosphere. Certainly not everyone drinks, and if you don't establish yourself quickly as an outgoing type, it's hard to get your foot in the door. The ones who do seem to form a very exclusive social circle; maybe things have changed, but at the time some were so preoccupied with shedding themselves of the nerdy school image that they became pretentious and superficial. Which leads to small, crappy parties where everyone pretends to be cool. I can't speak for everyone, but personally, my social life has improved immensely since graduating.</p>

<p>Of course, you don't have to go to frats to make friends, and typically people interact in classes and EC activities. Except our schedules were so restrictive that it's pretty difficult to manage, and the school offered little support in this area...sponsored activities and events for undergraduates were a far cry from what I've seen at peer institutions. In general, services were poor: housing was unaccommodating, college advising was unknowledgable, careers services was a joke, medical and counseling were awful, and food was bad. </p>

<p>But the most painful aspect of Chicago was, and I believe still is, the academics. Forget about taking the most difficult courses in every subject. With the quarter system, you're constantly bombarded with exams and papers, and students take their studies incredibly seriously, working mostly independently. Combined with unsympathetic professors who don't engage in grade inflation, undergraduates were somewhat initially disadvantaged when applying to professional programs and jobs. This made life hell for me, as I, like many of you, was used to excelling in HS, and the level of competition at UofC was astounding. I don't mean that everyone was good at everything, but no matter where you looked, there was always a level that would challenge you, and I never stepped down from the challenge. And I'm sure you're all smart, but when your classmates put down 20 hours a week on a particular class, you'll be quickly left behind if you don't match their work ethic, regardless of how brilliant you may be. It was humbling and often left me wondering if I had the ability to succeed. </p>

<p>But it taught me how to think, and it prepared me for the real world. Towards the end of my second year, I began to realize, when comparing notes and stories with peers who'd gone to great schools like Northwestern, Penn, Harvard, and MIT, that I was not only learning more, but that I was learning to think for myself. This is mostly due to the academic atmosphere, and it's a large part of what makes Chicago unique. It's something that can't be replicated with endowment, history, number of Nobel prizewinners, or usnwr rankings. The football team's record, the number of Goldman Sachs internships, and the school's media attention may fluctuate, but academics will always remain the priority for both students and faculty. Professors won't coddle you. To go through as much material in a quarter as most do in a semester or more, they carefully present their information, giving you the tools you need, and leave much of the learning as readings or well-designed problems sets. And perhaps like me, you'll suffer at first for having learnt through rote memorization the first 12 years of your academic life, but eventually even I learned how to process information and come up with new ideas independently, much more valuable to me now than an extra 0.3 GPA points. You'll be immersed in an environment where your peers, antisocial as they might seem, more eagerly discuss their classes and research. That's not to say they did or should have collaborated on homework, but I never felt out-of-place having an intellectual conversation. </p>

<p>I'm now attending a graduate school whose name carries more prestige than UofC, but I don't think the undergraduate academic experience comes close. Here, the administration softens the transition from HS to college, and the professors are pressured into doling out feel-good grades and changing their courses to meet students' needs. It sounds great, but when professors don't have the flexibility to teach and test what they want, the quality of the course suffers. More importantly, they don't have the same respect for undergraduates as they did at UofC, where you're seen and treated as an adult. Here, senior faculty may be forced to teach undergraduate courses and advise undergraduate theses, but they can't be forced to take them seriously, and they don't feel comfortable pushing students in their classwork and research. Students seemed more focused on sports, extracurriculars, and their romantic lives than what they're being taught. And in turn, the administration diverts resources away from academics to those aspects. Speaking with friends and colleagues, this seems to be true almost everywhere - only Caltech and MIT seem to share the same relentless dedication to undergraduate academics as Chicago, and they don't have the benefit of offering a liberal arts education.</p>

<p>There are things UofC could have done better. Their career placement and networking opportunities lag those of a Harvard or Yale, research opportunities aren't as plentiful as in MIT, it's not as fun or intimate as a state school or liberal arts college, and Hyde Park will forever suck. But there's nowhere else you'll learn more, and I happen to think that's worth a lot in the long run, whether you go into academia, industry, politics, or the arts.</p>

<p>Can’t lie… </p>

<p>“And perhaps like me, you’ll suffer at first for having learnt through rote memorization the first 12 years of your academic life, but eventually even I learned how to process information and come up with new ideas independently, much more valuable to me now than an extra 0.3 GPA points.”</p>

<p>That has me very scared.</p>

<p>hahah 90% of this post frightens me</p>

<p>well, so much for that being my last post, but I wanted to respond to the above</p>

<p>By no means did I mean to scare you. If you were admitted, then you have the smarts to do well. The rest is up to your motivation and work ethic. And I might have been slightly masochistic and unbalanced in my choices - talk to other alums and college officials for a more well-rounded view. </p>

<p>Obviously, every school has its problems. From what I’ve read, Chicago has been working very hard the last couple of years to better undergraduate life, and even during my time there I saw lots of improvement. What I wanted to point out was that the atmosphere is more intellectually stimulating than at any other school, and professors really see you in a different light at Chicago. This difference is, far and away, larger than those in the other categories I mentioned. And unlike in career services, Greek life, or housing, where you can amend the school’s deficiencies with some added effort and persistence, you can’t replicate passion for teaching or the faculty’s general attitude toward the undergraduate student body by being proactive. Those qualities can make or break an educational experience</p>

<p>asiaknight, thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and thoughts. Yours is one of the most informative and refreshing posts in a long while. I wish you all the best with your graduate studies.</p>

<p>@asiaknight. Excellent post. As you have alluded to…the best way to describe the intellectual challenge one receives from Chicago is like getting a liberal arts version of Caltech and MIT…</p>

<p>…for most students, they won’t realize how incredible an education they are getting while “in school” but they will definitely come to truly appreciate it when they leave the campus…</p>

<p>^thanks, fellas. I’m really afraid I’ve turned off some potential students, and I think I should characterize the experience differently. It’s not that you’ll necessarily have bad grades or push yourself to the extreme. In fact, thinking back I know I could have breezed through easier courses, had more free time, and looked better on paper to employers. A few I know did just that, and they got what they wanted out of the degree. </p>

<p>But the essence of UofC is that people do stretch themselves, and that’s what I loved about it. I remember after the math placement exam, there was a huge line in Eckhart formed by people who wanted were appealing to take higher courses. The idea that 100 people (mostly non-majors) actively sought, against the recommendations of the department, something that would surely result in more work for worse grades is hilarious to me, especially given the complacency I see in my classes these days. If two professors taught the same course, most flocked to the MORE difficult one if they’d learn more. These stories go on.</p>

<p>Bottom line is that your curriculum is up to you, but there really are a lot of masochists who strive to test their limits. I thrived in this kind of environment, where my peers’ hard work and passion motivated my own, and I think our reward was the respect of our professors as a student body, something I rarely encountered to such an extent outside of UofC. </p>

<p>Last words, it’s been fun, good luck to all, accepted or denied. College is first and smallest step of many.</p>

<p>asiaknight:</p>

<p>When (roughly - or just provide a ballpark) did you graduate?</p>

<p>Agreed with everything that asiaknight said. That is almost a perfect summary of my experience at Chicago.</p>

<p>Prospective applicants need not be discouraged. If you don’t want to undergo serious intellectual and personal transformations at College (which are almost always challenging processes), then you probably shouldn’t be considering Chicago in the first place.</p>

<p>Also, I have to laugh at the reference to the lines in the math department. It’s true. I was one of the unfortunate few to study during the summer and place into the course everyone else wanted to get into. Although I succeeded in the course, it came at the price of my social life and sanity (only temporarily, though). Not sure I would do it in retrospect.</p>

<p>Asiaknight, as a parent of an admitted student, thank you very much for an honest, insightful post. It lay rest all the factors that contributed to our indecisiveness and you were able to deliver a sense of reassurance…a feeling that made me feel our D would thrive in this environment even with all the “cons” involved.</p>

<p>I don’t mind being challenged in college. However, being at a school in which “rote memorization” was very prominent, I’m worried that I may have a very rough transition.</p>

<p>^^if you were smart enough to get into Chicago you will be fine. Most, if not all high school students learn by rote memorization as you have said…but, once you get to Chicago you will learn to become a thoughtful thinker, analyzer, debater, and writer. It is this fundamental aspect of Chicago that unites them all by the time they all graduate…there are no multiple choice exams…and I believe most of the top schools are like Chicago in that they have mainly problem sets, essay question exams, and numerous papers to write.</p>

<p>The Socratic method is prominently used to teach and learn especially in the humanities and social sciences classes…where the students are addressed as Mr. and Ms. by the professor who basically leads the discussions and the students offer differing/opposing viewpoints about their readings. And the beauty of Chicago is that there is no right or wrong answer to a reading that you discuss in class…there is no political agenda by and large…most profs try to leave out their personal politics unlike other institutions. Most young adults find this very refreshing coming from certain high schools that had teachers who were very biased in their world views…Other than general chemistry, physics, organic chemistry (lecture and lab based) most were small classes including the biology and math classes.</p>

<p>From what I’ve seen, houses of diverse people socialize and are close. Students seem quite satisfied with their outside the class life…</p>

<p>asiaknight: thank you for the post. I think it was very insightful.</p>

<p>My daughter is starting UofC this coming fall. I’m sure the workload will be a challenge for her, but I think its the challenges in life that make us grow and allow us to reach our full potential.</p>

<p>I appreciated your comment comparing the academics at Chicago with MIT. I’m an MIT alum and after visiting Chicago with my daughter a few times over the past year, I was struck by how much these two schools have in common. Of course MIT is all about tech while Chicago is focused on the sciences and the liberal arts, but in terms of character, academic rigor and the type of students they attract, I think they are similar. They also are both known for having a high workload, but I see that as a big part of the experience these schools offer. I also think that the workload is probably one of the driving factors that make these institutions what they are, and if you took that out I don’t think the academic caliber would remain as high.</p>

<p>Could any alums or current students please talk about the general attitude/happiness at uchicago? The university has quickly become my top choice- I am an academic sort of person that would also love a thriving extracurricular/social life. I understand that the school is rigorous, competitive (hopefully in a collaborative sort if way), and that the quarter system has a lot to do with reduced free time, but for me as an individual the environment makes a large difference. The atmosphere of curiosity and sincere desire to learn to cultivate yourself as a person versus taking classes to fulfill some requirements or bump a gpa up (although, honestly speaking, I can relate) was what really made me think this university would be a good fit. However, like I mentioned, while an academic environment could be stellar, the happiness/stress-levels of the campus is also something I would like to take into consideration if anyone has anything to say. Thanks for any/all input!</p>

<p>Just wanted to mention one great perk of the quarter system: if you dislike a class or professor it’s over faster!</p>

<p>I’m a UCLA Alum and the UCs use the quarter system. I enjoyed it. I also took a few classes at CSULB (CA State University) and the semesters seemed to drag on forever.</p>

<p>I would love to know when you finished. I finished in the early 1990s. And it sounds like your experiences were similar to mine – although I did not find that Hyde Park sucked. I loved the book stores (Co-op, 57th Street, Powells, etc.), I thought the Thai restaurants were good – and I hung out at the Medici a lot. </p>

<p>I moved off campus, so rapidly my social life revolved around the other off-campus folks, throwing dinner parties, stoop parties, etc. And I got out of H-P a lot – to Wicker Park, the Near North Side, etc. I also threw myself into the Maroon and politics – on campus and off – which were exciting outlets for my energy when I was not in class. </p>

<p>I had wanted desperately to go to Yale when I was in high school, and I regretted not pushing myself to make more of an effort to be clear about my preference when I was applying. But now, with hindsight, I do not regret for an instant where I landed. I think the U of C, for all its rough edges (and it was a <em>rough</em> place intellectually and politically), provided me with an amazing education, incredible friends, and a solid basis for doing what I am doing now.</p>

<p>2manyschools:
Can you share what it is you do now and how U of Chicago prepared you?
Thanks.</p>

<p>Kaukauna:
I switched careers mid-stream. I practiced law for about 10 years in NY and DC, and then I decided to go back to what I loved – writing and teaching. I am now doing a PhD in a humanities field at Princeton. The U of C prepared me well for both. </p>

<p>I won’t go into much detail about how I think the U of C helped with law. It’s enough to say that being exposed to different ways of thinking about things rigorously – which the core required – was a great help in approaching legal problems. But the substance rather than merely the approach of the core is what has helped me the most in graduate school. I have worked with many more issues, texts, and ideas from different disciplines than many other students in my cohort at Princeton. When I come at an issue, I am already aware of some of the different debates, questions, and problems associated with it – and I can see the connections to other issues in other fields. </p>

<p>Obviously to some extent this is because I am older than many of the students in my cohort, but I think it is also because I had to read and learn more broadly in college, and I expected to have to do so. I knew that the core was going to stretch me intellectually, and that was one of the things that excited me and drew me to Chicago in the first place.</p>