Thoughts on an "Automatic Admission" policy?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Florida
41

To me, the heart of this is a concept of “fairness.” Every kid in Florida should
have a fair shot at UF; that’s the premise right? So how can setting an arbitrary percentage that potentially rewards kids from less competitive high schools be “fair?” An application process, looking at many objective data points and then aligned with a means for an applicant to make their subjective case for themselves, is infinitely more “fair.”

Sadly, 54% of kids from Florida who apply to UF don’t get in. I’m sure we all agree that any kid who works hard and gets decent grades deserves to go to college. They just don’t necessarily get to go to Harvard, Duke, Univ. of Michigan … or UF.

42

@itsgettingreal17 sure, that plays a factor, but not so much in gradation rates, as in the number of low SES students that apply and then enroll (yield %).

UT-Austin cost plays a role in driving lower SES students to not apply, or if they apply and are accepted, to not enroll. Based on their top 6% admissions policy, they should have far more lower SES students, than they do. In fact, they have less than Florida, based on the % of Pell Grants (24% at UF vs 22% at UT-A).

I’m sure you’ll find this interesting.
Average Net Price (from College Navigator):
UT-Austin: $14,156
UF: $11,313

Not that far apart, but look at it by income bracket:

UT-Austin
$0 – $30,000:… $11,374
$30,001 – $48,000: $12,371
$48,001 – $75,000: $14,906
$75,001 – $110,000: $19,869
$110,001 and more: $23,958

UF
$0 – $30,000:… $3,397
$30,001 – $48,000: $2,842
$48,001 – $75,000: $3,689
$75,001 – $110,000: $7,550
$110,001 and more: $13,969

And we come back to why the state of Florida University System (with Bright Futures, lower tuition, etc.) compares so well to the state of Texas. At least when it comes to severing low SES/URM students.

43

Good discussion on this topic.

I posed it after looking at UT-Austin and thinking about how/why they are not ranked higher overall while their Engineering and Business schools are much higher ranked than UFs. I read about the automatic admittance program and wondered how that might impact the profile of accepted students.

I agree with a lot of @Gator88NE’s points, among others. I cannot see how the automatic admissions process would arrive at the best aggregate profile of students as judged by just about any metric. They probably save a lot of time and money in the admissions process, however…

One appeal is that it should eliminate those seemingly random rejections of highly qualified candidates. Now, I am not convinced that there is not more to the story when I hear about those rejections, but it is conceivable that admissions makes mistakes every now and then. Even so, there is an appeal process that should rectify those one-offs.

44

Further to @Gator88NE’s point, UF has almost twice the % of out of state students than UT (UT-A 10.8%, UF 19.3%). So, UF should have more students paying the higher OOS tuition that would drive up the average net price.

45

In post #38 above @Gator88NE wrote:

“It’s a horrible freaking idea…it’s the reason why UT-Austin (a school with far more resources) is behind UF in the rankings.”

So, if I understand @Gator88NE’s point, state supported flagship universities exist to serve US News rankings over the needs of its citizens and its counties.

46

@fl1234 you make a good point… we all hear these stories of kids with this SAT and that GPA etc… first off, 95% of the GPA’s as we know are irrelevant because every county is different… but 95% of the people out there (not including us crazies on this board) do not know that counties and schools calculate differently. so when someones hears a kid didn’t get in with a 5.0, they immediately think OMG… well they don’t realize it might be on a 7.0 scale… I have a question. How many of those stories we hear are actually true? like you said there is another side to the story… like do they have a criminal record, are the GPA’s on a 10.0 scale, is the SAT actually what they say it is? do they have a mark on their high school record that is a flag? etc etc… thoughts?

@GatorDad305 ?

47

@Publisher Not sure how you came up with that…

Let me be a bit clearer, I think UF"s holistic/merit based system is a better method to select students, period. I think it’s more “fair” (which is a personal opinion) and does a better job of enrolling students that will perform in college and graduate.

48

I came up with that based on your post #38 above. @Gator88NE

I acknowledge that it is much easier for UF to move up in the rankings if UF can exclude as many of the top ranked students from underperforming school districts as it pleases under the guise of “holistic admissions”.

But, UF is a state supported flagship school which should serve the citizens in all of its counties whether rich or poor, black or white, excellent school system or underperforming school system.

With a top X% class rank & a minimum standardized test score, all deserve a chance to benefit from the state flagship university’s superior resources.

Ignoring students from underperforming schools & disadvantaged backgrounds is not a solution.

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@jhmoney One thing is certain, we never get the full story. Lots of anecdotal information abounds. Most of the vitriol against UF’s process comes flying during the days (and hours) immediately after decisions are announced. Parents who don’t truly know where their kid stands get upset. Alums get really upset. But it’s hard to blame them. I always say that I’m an advocate for my kids – because no one else will be, right? The day your kid doesn’t get admitted to your alma mater or their dream school (or both) is a really bad day. And every parent is going to put the best possible shine on their kid and say “they were robbed” by UF. Sadly, in some cases, they were!

As for this thread, I think a bunch of us need to agree to disagree…

50

I guess that I don’t see that everyone has a right “to benefit from the state flagship university”. There will always be qualified students that don’t get accepted, whether they are at the top of the class of a poor performing school, or in the 10th percentile of an IB program. They just can accept everyone that could succeed there.

51

@fl1234: Because students from poor & underperforming school districts are the most likely to return to those districts / counties & become future leaders there.

52

@Publisher I know that many would disagree with this, but I don’t believe that the mission of a public university should be social engineering. There are many ways to address the issues that you bring up, which are legitimate issues, but it is not the university’s responsibility.

Unfortunately, social engineering has become a major focus on most campuses across the county and is a significant contributor to the rapid increase in cost of attendance and thus the student debt ‘crisis’ we are grappling with.

53

@fl1234: I just read the mission statements of three different state flagship universities: The University of Florida, The University of Georgia & The University of Texas.

Most impressive to me was the mission statement of The University of Texas, followed by the University of Georgia.

The Core Purpose of the University of Texas at Austin: To transform lives for the benefit of society.

Responsibility of The University of Texas at Austin: To serve as a catalyst for positive change in Texas and beyond.

The University of Georgia stresses its statewide commitment and responsibilities to the citizens it serves.

The University of Florida refers to “exclusive public education”.

54

The Texas 6% admissions policy does several things:

-It increases racial, economic and geographical diversity by automatically admitting students from lower performing schools who would not otherwise be admitted.

-It suppresses UT’s rank because some students automatically admitted will have lower test scores and will not graduate in 4-5 years.

-It sends out an OOS diaspora of Texas students from high performing schools with high test scores, who do not graduate in the top 6%, do not like or are not in the % high enough for Texas A&M, and do not like their other in state public options. See for example, all the Texas students at Alabama.

-It leads to lots of HS students switching to lower performing high schools where they have a better chance at the top 6%; and hyper-focus on ones class rank leading to selecting courses based on GPA rather than interest/enrichment, a decline in extra-curriculars that might impact class rank, and general stress.

Does UF need the negatives of such a policy to gain the positives?

55

@Publisher Who decides what benefits society? I think that you and I might have very different views of what that means and what society needs right now. So, then what do we do?

At the end of they day they are education institutions, not vehicles to advance our own personal political, social and religious agendas. They should stick to teaching and preparing our students to be successful in the professions they choose to pursue.

56

@fl1234 If you believe colleges are about career preparation, you truly don’t understand the missions of institutions of higher education. I can’t think of a single non-profit college that would agree with you. Well maybe purely technical colleges.

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@itsgettingreal17 I am clear on what they are about. I said that they SHOULD stick to career preparation, meaning that they are not now…

58

Fascinating and in complete contradiction to one of the goals of Bright Futures.

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@fl1234: My primary concern is with respect to economic benefits, then social benefits. I have no political or religious agenda.

60

@Publisher I am not sure what your issue is with UF, but you completely misrepresented UF’s mission by saying it ‘refers to “exclusive public education”’.
(Honestly, my use of the word ‘misrepresented’ was very kind and, really, misrepresents what you really did.)

Here is the mission straight from their website:
The University of Florida is a comprehensive learning institution built on a land-grant foundation. We are The Gator Nation, a diverse community dedicated to excellence in education and research and shaping a better future for Florida, the nation and the world.

Our mission is to enable our students to lead and influence the next generation and beyond for economic, cultural and societal benefit.

It goes on further and you can read it here:
http://handbook.aa.ufl.edu/about-uf/mission-and-plans/