I kind of figured this would be the outcome even from the earliest reports. How sad. Glad to know it was quick, though, rather than the horrific scenarios that had been postulated.
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You are not paying for SpaceX to launch a Tesla convertible into space.
You (the collective taxpayer you) are paying them to deliver payloads that the government needs to be launched, as they are the lowest cost and most reliable launch vehicle.
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I am sure the cost of the Tesla convertible launch was part of the Space X operating expense used to factor in their bid to get the launch contract. Was it a direct cost, probably not. Was it part of the bid computation? I would be sure it was.
I don’t recall where this extreme example of hubris was launched from. If it was from the US, did Space X pay the US government and its agencies for the FAA’s time, the damage to the environment etc?
Ah, it was from the Kennedy Space Center. I just hope the US got suitable payment for this kind of nonsense:
And don’t forget the huge amount of carbon credits that Tesla used to fund its operations at taxpayer expense.
That being said, this is probably worth another thread. I don’t have anything further to say about Space X, Tesla, or Musk today.
My impression of the “US Navy heard the implosion” is much more a matter of:
- the US Navy has a number of listening devices distributed in various parts of the world’s oceans that are of strategic importance
- all those devices report information back to some central processing facility (perhaps hourly, perhaps every 10 minutes, perhaps constantly, unknown)
- Certain signals (like, say, a Russian submarine entering US waters) get looked for in the data from all of the sensors.
- At some point, after the Titan was reported missing, the US Navy went back and looked at the sensors nearest to where the Titanic lies on the ocean floor.
- Once that data was parsed, they saw a signal that looked like it might be a catastrophic implosion, which they relayed to the IC on site.
So, while it seems the US Navy “heard it when it happened”, I could easily see a delay of several hours between “when the US Navy was asked if they knew anything” and “when the US Navy realized that they maybe knew something”.
I am not a member of any nation’s Armed Forces, nor do I know anything in particular about our remote sensing capabilities. I work with computer systems, and I did take a class or two about remote sensing (with respect to other planets) while in college.
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What you call hubris, NASA calls a test flight. The first test flight to see if the Falcon Heavy would be able to carry payloads with reusable rocket parts.
NASA supported the development of the Heavy and capsule. Musk wanted to show that his rocket could not only get into orbit, but carry a payload, which was typically steel/concrete blocks bolted down. Instead, Elon volunteered his personal roadster. Since it was outfitted for the track, the engineers removed the glass, battery and powertrain, so there wasn’t much weight left to count as a payload. But it did garner a lot of free press. (Not bad for a guy who doesn’t believe in marketing.)
The FAA has all regulatory authority of anything blasted Into the air, and the stripped down car was approved.
After the successful test flight, NASA paid a boatload of more money to SpaceX.
fwiw: NASA and the military for whom the demo was focused, have unofficially said that they never asked for a payload on the Test Flight.
In March 2017, SpaceX’s founder, Elon Musk, said that because the launch of the new Falcon Heavy vehicle was risky, it would carry the “silliest thing we can imagine”.[9] In June 2017, one of his Twitter followers suggested that the silly thing be a Tesla Model S, to which Musk replied “Suggestions welcome!”
For once, I agree with Musk. The “silliest thing imaginable”…
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Point of correction- he didn’t send up a Model S, he sent up a roadster sports car. And there had been only 2500 roadsters produced.
Now Amazon is apparently dealing with a minor mess… people posting reviews of game controllers with the reference to the disaster.
“ Amazon has begun to clear bad-taste reviews of the game controller used to steer the lost Titan sub.
Users began posting black-humour reviews of the controller to Amazon after news about the missing sub broke including images showing a Logitech F710 game controller used to control the vessel.
It is not unusual for game controllers to be used to pilot drones, ROVs, and sometimes vessels but users have posted reviews critical about its role in steering submarines.
Now the fate of the sub is known, the BBC reports that Amazon has begun deleting these reviews as they do not comply with community guidelines.”
Here in New England, if someone goes hiking up Mt. Washington ill prepared (flip-flops, no map, inadequate clothing, etc.) and then needs to be resuced due to their stupidity, the state of NH charges them.
If a pleasure boat needs to be rescued because a drunken owner did not pay attention to fuel levels and runs out of gas, the Coast Guard charges them for the costs.
I put this in the same category. These are not scientists doing research, these are rich people who could afford to pay for this thrill ride in a vessel that proved to be inadequate. US and Canadian governments should not be on the hook for this, nor should funds be spent to recover the debris or remains.
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From CNN:
- Would the crew have known what was happening? With so much pressure on the submersible, the implosion would have happened in a fraction of a millisecond. A catastrophic implosion happens at 1,500 miles per hour, Aileen Marty, a former naval officer and professor at Florida International University told CNN. “It takes more than that — it takes about 0.25 more than that — for the human brain to even realize it’s happening. So … the entire thing would have collapsed before the individuals inside would even realize that there was a problem,” Marty said. “They died in a way that they didn’t even realize that they were about to die. Ultimately, among the many ways in which we can pass, that’s painless.”
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So the lost communications were reported immediately, yet the missing submersible wasn’t reported until after it should have resurfaced? I’d wondered why they waited so long to report it missing.
There was knowledge of what had (probably) happened, even though most of the world had no idea.
ETA: It was determined to be “non-definitive” by the on-scene commander, I just read in a Yahoo article.
The WaPo explained exactly what someone surmised upthread : when the vessel was suspected in distress, the Navy went back through their data and said they had some supporting implosion.
This is literally lines on a graph. To say they “heard” anything is journalistic laziness. This was relayed to the search, but as that commander said, they are not calling off a search based on lines on a graph alone. In cases of capsized vessels, the CG will look for days for any survivors despite the cost. It is what the CG is for.
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While these were all adults who made their own decision to take part in the expedition, it saddens me to read that the 19-year-old was terrified and did not want to go. He wanted to please his father, though. The father was obsessed with the Titanic. This was all according to the father’s sister.
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I felt most for the 19 year old from the beginning. Sad ending but not unexpected.
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No, I believe the sub wasn’t reported missing for several hours as it had lost communications before. As someone else said, the Navy listening devices are probably just constantly logging information and when the sub was reported missing, someone went back over the recordings. Or maybe the unusual sound raised an alert but the listeners didn’t yet know the sub was missing until hours later.
As for source, I believe I heard this on an NPR interview, but I forget who they were talking to. This person also said something to the effect that OceanGate had declined Coast Guard inspections/certifications so were probably reluctant to immediately call for help (he called the delay “unconscionable”, although we now know it didn’t matter). He also expressed some of the same reservations as some on this thread - that refusing inspections then expecting help is not a great look.
The Titan had lost comms before, but they were always restored (relatively) quickly, i believe. It wasn’t reported missing this time until after it was supposed to have resurfaced.
What you wrote above makes sense to me for the delay.
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Good high-level article here on legalities and inspections related to the Titanic.
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I’ve read that the young man onboard was actually very afraid to go on the Titan, but didn’t want to disappoint his father.
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Our local news showed a part of the interview with his aunt who confirmed that her nephew was terrified to go on the dive. Saddest part of the whole story. Poor kid. The adults were there because it was their passion… he was there to please his father.
That’s the typical approach. The question about what happened should be of value mainly to the company or others that design and build submersibles. I think the natural desire to find out what can be done involves regulation and in many cases (this one included) I don’t think any are needed.
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