IMO, while it may not state but NJMS does expect BSMD students to have a MCAT score near the average of incoming MS1 class and most do score even better than the average MCAT of the incoming MS1. It is not a free lunch with respect to MCAT, IMO. If one can not get an average MCAT score of its peer (MS1), one may not be competitive in medical school, IMO.
Understood. Just for the sake of discussionā¦Why limit competitiveness to just MCAT only? There is another bar called āGPAā. Avg admitted student in Rutgers New Jersey Medical School seems to have GPA of 3.68 (and MCAT 514). How about other BSMD programs for that MCAT score is not required at all? Applying this theory to Brown PLMEā¦one needs to get a GPA of 3.83, and an MCAT score of 516 to show their competitiveness against avg students accepted into Brown Medical School directly.
Thank you.
In-state tuition comes in play only if these 3 PA schools give admission to in-state students. 90% out of state is just bonkers!
Looks like from an undergrad school perspective, they are better of attracting out of state students as the fees OOS students pay is double of in-state students.
Agree we are focusing on our applications and praying for the best.
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The college application cycle is hard and this is especially so for BS/MD applications. It seems un-ending. Right now, it is the in the starting stage. Believe it or not, it gets worse between Dec-Mar time-frame! Not to mention, traveling to attend interviews while missing classes/hw/tests etc. can also add to the stress.
Donāt worry, in general kids do end up getting into a college that is a decent fit and end up liking their college! patience and perseverance is the key here.
@BrownPLME
While NJMS BSMD website may not specify any minimum MCAT score for matriculating to NJMS, IMO, there may be an expected minimum MCAT score from BSMD candidate. AO may be pointing out a possible milestone. There is another requirement of min UG GPA ( may be 3.5 ??) per semester.
None of BSMD programs guarantee you an admission to medical school. IMO, one can be kicked out of a BSMD program based on any one of these preconditions - an interview with medical school during Junior year being one at some programs.
Medical school is even harder.
Does anyone know for the APās, is it okay if a student does not take AP Chemistry but does take the honors version + an upper level chemistry course?
College Board said āweāre discontinuing SAT Subject Tests. The expanded reach of AP and its widespread availability for low-income students and students of color means the Subject Tests are no longer necessary for students to show what they know. AP provides students rich and varied opportunities to showcase their knowledge and skills through college-level coursework.ā
Looking at the BSMD 2021 result thread, a majority of the successful candidates have taken SAT Chemistry test and AP Chemistry course.
Since there was no SAT Chemistry test offering now and you have not taken AP Chemistry, then in your case colleges need to look at your scores in basic chemistry, honors version + an upper-level chemistry course. IMO, itās a tough question to prejudge will this be sufficient, especially for BSMD programs, in which cutthroat competition is always there. Do you have any other ECs/Awards to substantiate your involvement in Chemistry like wins in Regional/State/National level Chemistry Bowl competitions, and or Chemistry Club experience at HS level?
It depends on your local school district what is offered. Not every one has AP level chemistry, biology and physics available to them and they do get into BSMD programs. There is no ONE factor which affects the final outcome.
DC will be applying in 1-3 years (Iād like to keep their grade and ECs private), but I have a feeling that ECs/awards canāt make up for an academic transcript and vice versa. How about self-studying for the AP Chem exam? All students at DCās school have to choose between regular or honors chem for the academic year, and then after that academic year of chem, students can take whatever AP or other science. This includes AP Chem, Organic chem (non-dual enrollment), and other AP sciences. DC will have other AP sciences in bio, physics, enviro sci under belt by senior year. This is the plan:
9th - Honors Bio [Cannot take any AP sciences by school policy]
10th - Honors Chem [Cannot take any AP sciences by school policy]
11th - AP Biology + Organic Chem
12th - AP Physics 1 + AP Enviro Sci (relatively less intense)
*also, for courses in general when it comes to BSMDs, can DC just take any APs (including āeasyā, non-medically-related APs on top of APs in the main subjects? like AP economics, AP Capstone, AP Comp Sci, etc. on top of AP english, AP science, AP math, and AP language?
Or should DC take medically-related, non-APs like sociology/global health/microbiology/etc. in place of non-medically-related APs?
My DC took a different plan:
Grade 9: AP Physics 1 (it was literally an uphill task, realized later that it was too early)
Grade 10: Honors Chemistry (block 1), AP Chemistry (block 2)
Grade 11: AP Biology
Grade 12: AP Psychology
Overall DC took 15 AP courses in total (grade 9 ā 12), 5 of them are medical related. Have seen one kid taken 17 APs in Fall 2021 BSMD results thread. Donāt know if anyone has taken more than 17 APs. However, some expressed opinion in BSMD threads saying that overall 8-10 APs may be sufficient for BSMD applications.
Never heard of self-study for AP Chemistry Exam. Experts can chime in on this.
IMO, you need to dig through the results thread to find out what kind of AP courses are taken by the successful BSMD candidates (some posted what they took) in the past.
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@BROWNPLME
The number of APs is hardly any factor in BSMD selection. There are applicants who were selected in NJMS BSMD program with only Honors level Biology, Physics and Chemistry taken during first three years of HS. IMO, organic chemistry without dual enrollment is a overkill and unnecessary. Having a great SAT and unweighted GPA in HS is the most important factor.
my 2 cents - Some schools allow APs in 9th/10th and some only in 11/12th. However, if schools do allow APs in a given year, your DC should not be taking easier course load than other classmates in his school. Also, since DC is interested in BS/MD - they should show interest in science/health science/medicine.
I recommend choosing quality over quantity of AP courses - 2 science APs should be sufficient since your school requires honors courses before students are allowed APs. If taking only two science APs - take Chemistry & Biology APs. This will show interest in sciences especially pre-med track. If DC wants to take 3 science APs, he could drop his humanity APs (& take easier honors courses in these areas?)
Another area to cover is Maths? What APs is DC taking in this area? Usually BS/MD students have strong math background (Calculus based APs such as AB calc or BC calc) atleast.
Difficulty of the AP also matters. AP Physics 1 is an easier AP when compared to calculus based ones such as - Physics C: Mechanics and Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism. So, no point in taking physics I AP instead of Chem AP. If DC cannot accommodate Chem AP at all, they should choose one of the calculus based APs instead
Once DC meets the above, they can take other humanity APs based on what makes sense to them or what they can accommodate
@BrownPLME
Glad to see that you are planning āon timeā. Hope you can add āStrategicā part into your planning to capitalize on this early start. Yes, if School system limits taking AP Chem then self prep is a good option if student expresses that capacity.
From BSMD ADCOM, there are two key objective academic broader requirements: 1) Pursue a challenging course of study in high school 2) Present academic credentials that would rank among most competitive applicants for admission.
- Given your school has limitation on AP offering till 11th grade, see if your student can take summer class to meet pre-requisite such that 11th grade student can complete AP Bio and AP Chem. We used this method for Math (8th Grade school year), Biology (8th summer) and Chemistry (9th summer) as our school system allowed max 2 class transfer from outside.
- Outside BCM - consideration on Economics, CS and Capstone are well aligned
- Not sure, how class rank works in your school system but - that is to be considered making sure student gets all A grades in order to stay in to top tercile (1%, 2% or 5%). Number one goal shall be maintain all As throughout high-school.
- Double digit (10+) AP classes demonstrate the rigor of curriculum. All As and 5s shows studentās compelling academic capacity.
Hope this helps a bit in your studentās planning and success. Wish you the best!!
There are several subjects under history and social sciences students are usually able to self study if the goal is to run up the score of number of APs taken. Psychology is pretty easy is what I have heard although college level is considered not so easy. many take european history as self study when they take world history in school in our local school. I advise kids to aim for national AP scholar award by the time they are applying to colleges [8 APs with at least 4] if they want to be academically competitive for top schools since this is not an easily reachable distinction at the end of 11th and makes them noticed. Doing 8 APs in senior does not have the same impact since no one knows the outcome while applying.
I cant say much about whether any of this helps BS/MD applications but this goal has helped both my children get into some of toughest to get into undergrad colleges.
Hey everyone, Iām actually the linked post on @cheer2021ās posting. Current student in the TCNJ/NJMS program. Any questions, please feel free to send a PM. Iām always down to help students on their applications.
BSMD colleges will then find hundreds of applicants, with near-perfect SAT scores and GPAs. How do they sort out the applicants then? Now, most BSMDs accept test-optional applicants (like they did in Fall 2021 admission cycle), therefore by taking out SAT from the equation - will GPA alone be the decider then? We all know some schools are less challenging than others.
BSMD programs, and selective undergrad colleges in general, like to see students that have challenged themselves academically. Obviously, honors classes are more challenging than standard classes, and AP courses will add a little bit more challenging in general. If a kid canāt do certain AP courses because HS doesnāt offer a certain option or because kid couldnāt fit something into his/her schedule, the colleges will generally understand. But if one kid from a school did 10 or more APs and the other kid did none or very few from the same school, assuming both kids have similar other stats, isnāt the first kid application is more attractive to BSMD colleges than the second kid?
To be competitive at some of the most highly selective colleges in the country, many believe 8-10 AP courses may be the sweet spot amount, assuming the student can handle that level of rigor. IMO, someone could have overcome this with few or no APs taken at HS level, maybe because they have some other stronger stats/ECs to make their application more competitive.
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Hereās a thumb rule that I follow for my students:
You need an average of 4 Honors/AP/IB courses per year i.e. 16 by the time you graduate from high school.
If you take IB in 9th and 10th grade (MYP program), I would not worry too much about being AP Scholar or not.
Key is to show you have taken the rigor in your classes and you thrived through that rigor.
Remember these are table-stakes. This is a necessary condition, not a sufficient condition.
The ADCOMS (whom I have spoken to) have indicated that they tend to look at you in the context of your school. There is a lot of subjectivity involved in coming up the final 100 or 60 or whatever that number is when they call for interviews.
Re: courses
I like that your DC plans to take Orgo. Not sure if 11 grade is the right grade.
Yes, do take non-medical related APs.
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Have previous threads polled people about how many have physician or medicine affiliated families?
The point is that local HS programs decide what can be taken or not. If there is an option to take APs (science and non-science) take whatever one can. Do not aim at a certain number of APs. D had numerous dual college credits from Rutgers and Stanford University. D had 60+ dual credits awarded in college from HS period. There is no study which correlates number APs to medical school performance. There is only MCAT CAR section score which has a correlation to USMLE-1 score in some studies.
Why would a BSMD program care if one has 2 or 4 or 6 or 8 or 16 APs in HS ?
Regarding Organic Chemistry taken without dual credit is wasteful since one has to take it again in college to meet medical schoolās pre-med requirements.
Drexel is asking to input AP scores in addition to other stats and IB/Honors coursework. I am sure other BSMDs happily take this info from this information from the applicants. If BSMD programs do not care about APs, why would they take this information from the candidate in the first place?
We all knew AP scores will be used to determine the credits eligibility in the undergrad program. The belief is that they also consider the # of APs (and honors and IB scores plus any other outside the HS course work done) as part of a holistic review of the application.
