<p>Men and female brains do not think alike. Once you look into the varying drives and dynamics it’s not hard to believe. It could be anything from a power dynamic, unsatisfied sexual hunger, suppressed sexual desires, a lack of values, and I could go on and on…but I think I’ll get off topic again. :)</p>
<p>@Consolation - I can’t figure that out either, except that in many cases rape isn’t about sex it’s about power, domination and violence. </p>
<p>…and if we remember Eliot Rodger, it’s also about keeping “score” against other men. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that on many college campuses, fraternity members and athletic team members commit a disproportionate percentage of sexual assaults. (I’m not including groping in that definition; I am including things like “fingering” someone or inserting some other foreign object or using a women’s body to masturbate.) </p>
<p>Please note: I’m not saying that all frats or all sports teams foster a “women are sexual objects and we use them to measure status within the group.” </p>
<p>Elliot Rodger was a virgin, so not exactly a rapist. Rape is about power. Miscommunication is not. Distinctions really do make a difference. </p>
<p>
Who says he wouldn’t be blamed? If by blaming, you mean pointing out to him that what he did was imprudent, it happens all the time–like, for example, if somebody leaves his bike unlocked and it gets stolen. I think it’s just that if you hear, “You’re asking to have your bike stolen if you don’t lock it up,” it just doesn’t set off the same alarm bells similar comments do when applied to women and sexual assault. Perhaps it’s because we have stronger ideas that women should be able to go wherever they want, dress as they want, interact with whatever people they want, without the fear of being assaulted–we don’t have such strong ideas that I should be able to park my bike without locking it up. I think the difficulty comes in when we start talking about actions that put people at multiple risks that we run into problems. Getting blackout drunk exposes you to many risks, one of which is sexual assault. If you fall out of a window, or crash your car into a tree, or find that your wallet has been stolen because you were drunk, I suppose it’s blaming you to point out that this wouldn’t have happened if you weren’t drunk. I guess I’m not sure why it’s so different when the risk that your drunkenness created was the risk of being exploited by a sexual predator.</p>
<p>It’s not so much that we blame the drunk as that we absolve the rapist. If I leave my bike unlocked and it is stolen nobody excuses the thief. But if I pass out and am raped, plenty of people will excuse the rapist. Just look at Steubenville. An appalling number of people in Steubenville excused the popular athlete rapists, or said it wasn’t really rape because she was passed out; people in power covered up for the rapists and the witnesses.</p>
<p>If I get my bike stolen because I left it unlocked, nobody says that wasn’t really theft.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, I hear what you are saying, but advising young women that getting blackout drunk can put them at risk for sexual assault is not absolving the rapist, and it’s not blaming the victim either. I continue to think that it is possible to both blame the perpetrator, and to also point out things the victim could have done to reduce the risk of being a victim.</p>
<p>In the Steubenville case I would not be surprised if some people thought it was “not really rape” because they were not accused of having intercourse with her. Some people may think that putting fingers inside someone “doesn’t count.” (Although laws make it clear that penetration with other body parts or objects counts.)</p>
<p>Regarding the Duke case mentioned here–which I had not heard of previously–from the referenced articles it sounds to me as if the hearing really was unfair to him and he was not allowed to present his side of the story fully. Nevertheless, given the information presented, it sounds like he was guilty of deliberately taking advantage of an intoxicated girl, even if he did stop when she “became emotional.” Even if she did not volubly protest until she was in his room, I think he knew exactly what he was doing and a more decent guy would have taken her home to her dorm and gotten her number if he had any real interest in her, rather than using her like a disposable sex toy.</p>
<p>In a way this is like the mentality of a person who steals anything that isn’t locked up. If they find a wallet on the street, they don’t contact the owner and return it, they take the cash and throw it in a trash can. They consider it YOUR responsibility to guard your stuff against THEM.</p>
<p>…and if you think Steubenville was an isolated incident–the event itself; not the cover up–then see what happened a few weeks ago in Georgia at a post-prom party. If rape is intercourse, there was no rape, but this is just plain sickening.
<a href=“UPDATE: 3 suspects in custody in alleged post-prom rape”>UPDATE: 3 suspects in custody in alleged post-prom rape;
<a href=“http://www.northwestgeorgianews.com/calhoun_times/news/police_fire/former-calhoun-high-students-charged-with-aggravated-sexual-battery-in/article_8bd5fe0e-e666-11e3-a70b-001a4bcf6878.html”>http://www.northwestgeorgianews.com/calhoun_times/news/police_fire/former-calhoun-high-students-charged-with-aggravated-sexual-battery-in/article_8bd5fe0e-e666-11e3-a70b-001a4bcf6878.html</a>
At least at graduation, people cheered for her to show their support. Kudos.
<a href=“Calhoun High School students stand up for right as cheers for victim mark graduation ceremony | Chattanooga Times Free Press”>Calhoun High School students stand up for right as cheers for victim mark graduation ceremony | Chattanooga Times Free Press;
<p>And, yes, all 3 accused were varsity athletes. Since there was no intercourse, this wasn’t about sex.
And , yes, she was drinking and passed out. Nobody deserves to be treated like this. These were her CLASSMATES, which makes it worse… </p>
<p>It is important to not confuse “blame the victim” with common sense. </p>
<p>There seems to be this concept that women should be able to do things without consequences and others should be the ones to control themselves. In an ideal world where everyone follows the law and exhibits self-control, that would be fine, but such a world does not exist AND will never exist.</p>
<p>This reminds me of a time I got into a little scuffle with some boys in 9th grade. My dad told me something very salient that night (paraphrased), “If you go into a potential war zone wearing orange with no flack jacket, no helmet, and no rifle, expect to be shot at often because you are an easy, unarmed, very visible target.” I got the message that I knowingly went into a potentially not good situation in a way that made me an obvious target. Looking back at it that night, I sure lacked common sense that afternoon.</p>
<p>It is not blaming the victim to advise females to not go to certain places dressed in a way, acting a way and doing certain activities, which make them a potential target of predators in the crowd. That is not blaming the victim; it is common sense.</p>
<p>This has little to do with media or the culture saying it is OK because there will always be people who do not understand or care about the limits of self-control, regardless of what the media or culture says. Therefore, to think a male or female can just go into any environment in any way and do anything and still expect to be safe is pure fallacy. It really does not take more than basic common sense to understand that. </p>
<p>" But I also think that the cases where the woman consented (clearly consented, by explicitly saying yes, by enthusiastic participation, or initiating the whole thing) and then later said she was raped are the tiny minority of all cases."</p>
<p>That seems to be where that Columbia case I linked to earlier falls—according to John Doe’s complaint, the sex was sober and consensual, the location and the condom provided by the woman—and it was the next day she texted and emailed him worried about what their group of friends would think, numerous times. 5 months later she brings the accusation that it wasn’t consensual after all.</p>
<p>John Doe, who was suspended from the school, claims the Title IX investigator took incorrect and incomplete notes and seemed only focused on getting him to admit guilt. When he pointed out her mistakes they remained uncorrected. Witnesses were not interviewed. When he was dismissed, even the woman who brought the complaint appealed to reduce his sanction. Why would she appeal to have him stay on campus if he is a threat? I know if I were forced into sex with someone I would probably want them away from me so I didn’t have to see them anymore and be reminded of the event.</p>
<p>Obviously we can’t really know everything that happened in that bathroom, but here is a case where it appears there is no intoxication on either side, and John Doe believed he had clear and enthusiastic consent (invited into the suite bathroom, provided with a condom) and yet still he is kicked out, seemingly due to the fact that Jane Doe regretted hooking up with him the morning after and told a dean or someone else in power about it.</p>
<p>If the story as presented in the complaint is true, this scares me as a mother of sons that this could happen to one of them. It also does nothing to help those women who really are victims of non-consensual sex.</p>
<p>The allegations of the complaint in the Columbia case are just that–allegations. </p>
<p>I don’t do criminal law, but I am an attorney. I’ve read the complaint, IMO, most of the arguments advanced for the proposition that the hearing was unfair are preposterous. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Complaint: The victim waited 5 months.
His RA asked for his explanation of what happened last May, so the victim told someone about the incident within a couple of weeks, at most. Indeed, the plaintiff says the RA said she had to report the matter. While she allegedly didn’t do that, the plaintiff could not have known that. The incident occurred on May 12. The plaintiff was informed of the charges on September 24. The complaint never says when the victim first contacted Columbia to lodge a complaint. Summer vacation occurred in the interim. Presumably, an investigation of this sort of incident can only occur when both parties and any witnesses will be on campus. I also suspect that some investigation must occur before charges were issued. We don’t know how much time elapsed between the incident and the plaintiff’s decision to make an official complaint. We don’t know whether the female contacted Columbia during the summer and the administration simply waited until the male was back on campus to contact him. All we know is that there were 4 months and 12 days between the incident and his receipt of formal charges. (Columbia’s rules say it will try to schedule a hearing within 60 days of the complaint, but this may not be possible if there is a school break.)</p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: Columbia failed to contact the students in the lounge.
Based on the “facts” in the complaint, the last of these witnesses left about 1:20 am. Intercourse occurred about 4 am. (They returned from the alleged walk at about 3:30 am, according to the plaintiff.) The fact that I was sober at 1:20 am, isn’t evidence that I was sober 2…5 hours later. IMO, it was not a mistake to exclude this “evidence.” </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: the investigator didn’t talk to India Knight.
We are never told the nature of the “relevant” information she had. It’s the obligation of the plaintiff to tel the judge what Ms. Knight could have testified to. </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint. There was a lot of hoopla surrounding Columbia’s treatment of sexual assault.
This is wholly irrelevant to the fairness of the proceedings. </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: The female chose to have someone involved in protests about Columbia’s treatment of sexual harassment cases as her “supporter.”
He doesn’t get to choose her “supporter,” just as she doesn’t get to choose his. Nothing in the procedures, which are available on line, requires either party to choose a friend as a supporter. See <a href=“http://ssgbsm.columbia.edu/frequently-asked-questions”>http://ssgbsm.columbia.edu/frequently-asked-questions</a> </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: The investigator didn’t tell him he could submit a response to the charges and/or make an opening statement and/or ask his dean for help.
That’s NOT the role of the investigator. The RULES which the person charged is bound by explain this right. If you are informed of serious charges against you and you don’t bother to investigate the process or read what the charges explain as to your rights, it’s your fault, nobody else’s. See <a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/sites/dsa/files/handbooks/Standards%20and%20Discipline%20-%20Spring%202014.pdf”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/sites/dsa/files/handbooks/Standards%20and%20Discipline%20-%20Spring%202014.pdf</a> and <a href=“http://ssgbsm.columbia.edu/frequently-asked-questions”>http://ssgbsm.columbia.edu/frequently-asked-questions</a> </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: He was hassled by the victim’s friends and had suicidal thoughts
This is irrelevant to the fairness of the proceedings. </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: she didn’t submit a rape kit.
It’s not required. If he used a condom, it wouldn’t prove anything anyway. Besides, nobody is contesting the fact intercourse took place. </p></li>
<li><p>Complaint: someone from the campus paper found out about the result.
There is no showing that the university was responsible for the leak. The university cannot impose a gag order on either the complainant or her supporter. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>In conclusion, don’t worry about your son. Just tell him if someone accuses him of sexual assault, he needs to take it seriously and let you know. Above all, find out how the process works and prepare for the hearing. </p>
<p>I think its time to stop “rape culture” hysteria in the US and its colleges. Rape has dropped more than 3 times the amount seen in the early 90s. Still any statistic of rape is not a good one. A more progressive discourse is one that instead discusses a culture where everyone glorifies being a victim. Or how about the inequality of a woman’s testimony versus a man’s testimony. A females word goes much farther in court as well. I had a health instructor in high school mention that a girl cannot consent with any amount of alcohol in her system. Well what if both parties are drunk and they have sex? The guy is still charged with sexual assault. That is the law. </p>
<p>Well said Hunt and I agree with you. Every parent can tell their kid not to slam three slugs from the liquour du jour and chase it down with two beers in an under an hour and it’s a heck of alot more valuable advice than “don’t drink” because they will drink. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Technically, but then why do we have Miranda warnings?</p>
<p>Just cam across this on Upworthy. Gave me chills. Always enjoy a good spoken word. 
<a href=“I Normally Wouldn’t Tell Other Dudes To Check Out A Group Of Women, But Here’s An Exception - Upworthy”>http://www.upworthy.com/i-normally-wouldnt-tell-other-dudes-to-check-out-a-group-of-women-but-heres-an-exception</a></p>
<p>Pretty good poem and well-executed and looks like it speaks for women who have been assaulted. However, there is a flaw in its logic. </p>
<p>It is easy to blame Budweiser and other commercial entities because they can be visualized and targeted, but the words “predator” and “psychopath” exist in the English language for a reason. Therefore, sadly, there will always be material for such poems; and, females still have to protect themselves and take precautions because when the predator shows up, Budweiser ads are not what caused him to be a psychopath. The problem is much deeper than a beer commercial. Pretty much the same way that saying “Just say no” does not and will not stop drug abuse.</p>
<p>I do say we live in a great country though. Having lived overseas, I can tell you that in over 50% of the countries on the planet women could not safely produce such a video, unless they invite being raped, as retribution for producing it. And the men would not be jailed or punished for any length of time for raping them either. I like being in a country where women can freely produce such a video; we are doing something right.</p>
<p>@Niquii77 - Thank you for posting that…amazing. </p>
<p>Here comes the contracts. Not sure how the verbal one changes much, but the written one would be interesting.</p>
<p><a href=“CA Bill Demands Verbal or Written Consent for Sex on College Campuses”>http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/06/04/College-Students-May-Need-Verbal-or-Written-Consent-to-Have-Sex-on-Campus</a></p>
<p>Oh, brave new world!</p>