time mag article "Sexual Assault Crisis on American campuses"

Parents Forum
581

<p>Hopefully, with all the attention that is being paid to this issue, a better policy will be put in place to deal with the situation on college campuses, including clear reporting guidelines and support systems for the victims. The patchwork system in place now obviously needs improvements. George Will’s idea that females on campus covet the status of rape victim is completely asinine. </p>

<p>@mamalion The Pentagon numbers are completely disheartening. Are there any numbers for convictions without trials in the Pentagon numbers or is that it? If so, that means that under 10% of reported assaults are prosecuted and result in a conviction. I know in the criminal court, many of the cases never go to trial, but are plea-bargained. I believe the number was around 5% for cases that actually go to trial in the sexual crimes division. The numbers demonstrate the difficulty in successfully prosecuting a crime that completely shatters lives. I know that I live in the successful minority of having had my rapist convicted at trial. My heart aches for all the people who are raped and live with the fact that their rapist still walks the street.</p>

<p>I don’t want to get into an argument over semantics, but while rapists may be perverts and creeps, I will stick with the word predator which I don’t find noble at all. Pervert implies that sex is the main goal of rape, when in reality power and control through sex are the main goals of a rapist. </p>

582

<p>“Pervert implies that sex is the main goal of rape, when in reality power and control through sex are the main goals of a rapist.”</p>

<p>So true! And, so not the goal of an overly persistent drunk college kid with a girl who gives in a later calls it rape. That is the problem. </p>

583

<p>Well, I’m quite certain that those of us who are women are not inherently biased against our sisters such that we’re falling all over ourselves to focus on false accusations leveled against men. Rather, the truth is that there have been a number of highly publicized campus cases where eventually it was found that the accuser lied–but not before the young man’s name and face had been plastered all over the national media for days. Hence the cynicism and concern. Let’s see, the 2006 Duke lacrosse case, anyone? There were 160 news stories related to the rape accusations against 3 men on all the major networks. Mangum’s story seemed plausible, and it fit nicely with the privileged white athlete stereotype so many hold. Given that she was a poor, black female, it was highly politically incorrect to doubt her story. However, she lied. Consider the magnitude of the publicity that can never be undone. So it’s not like expulsion from college is the worst of what a false accusation brings with it. Now they weren’t angels, but she wasn’t either.</p>

<p>Secondly, regardless of what statistics there may be that suggest otherwise, almost all the campus cases I’ve read about in the news seem to involve alcohol use, which does blur the facts. </p>

<p>Third, I personally have some inside knowledge about one of the current cases and here is more to it than has come out in the media. Being honest, that is likely biasing my comments on this thread.</p>

584

<p>" That is the problem"</p>

<p>Yeah. Not really. The problem is rape.</p>

<p>That we continue to focus on the rare and sensationalized false report is also interesting, but only in that it reveals to me what you are thinking about, not in that I see it as the most valid topic of discussion regarding campus rapes.</p>

585

<p>Like rape, false rape allegations can also be about power. A friend of mine has a 15 year old boy with behavioral problems. His older sister disliked all the extra attention mom had to give to him, and was sick and tired of being annoyed by him. Consequently, she told her mother he had tried to rape her. An awful mess ensued, which culminated in the boy being placed in a psychiatric hospital. However, in the end she admitted she had lied in the hopes he would be sent away from home and punished. This happened at the same time as the release of a news story about a 9 year old girl who had claimed her father had sexually abused her because her mother had threatened to beat her if she didn’t say it. The mother’s motive was revenge on her estranged husband. As an adult, the girl wanted to set the record straight: <a href=“New York woman whose testimony at age 9 jailed father for rape now says she lied”>New York News - New York Daily News; </p>

<p>You say false reporting is rare, and maybe it is. But it’s not rare enough to not factor into my thoughts on the issue.</p>

586

<p>I should add, especially for those who have not read the whole thread, that the discussion of false accusations is NOT intended to distract from the real problem of rape in general or campus rape. It is intended to explain why some of us are not comfortable with a committee of young college students plus a university staff member or two “investigating” and deciding on a criminal issue of such magnitude. Even when the police are involved as in the Duke case, these matters take time to resolve. A case may require DNA testing, access to evidence for which a warrant is needed, access to things like personal computer files, ATM machine records or EZpass turnpike records, and skilled detective work to analyze all of that in order to determine the facts of the case. Do you think a college student with a term paper due and final exams coming up has the time or expertise for such an investigation? </p>

<p>A Title IX office is likely equipped to look into allegations of bias that are more institutional, like a frat party at which co-eds are given number rankings for looks as they enter, and other situations of that nature that could contribute to rape culture. And a campus committee is equipped to handle conduct situations, such as if a young man has a habit of making derogatory or demeaning remarks to a woman/women on campus. However addressing a serious crime like rape is far too important to put in the hands of inexperienced lay people. If we continue to allow accusations of rape made via a Title IX office to become a national news story, as just happened in the Stanford case, the accused young man gets tried in the media before the facts are all in. That is unacceptable in my opinion. </p>

587

<p>Of course no one is in favor of false accusations, even if they exist in tiny numbers, but I see a real use for male concern with accusation. A fear of false accusation might well reduce bad behavior. Just as women take care not to be raped, men might take care not to accused. </p>

<p>Again I don’t approve of false accusation, but I believe that even false accusations have a source in pathological behavior. For example those nasty Duke lacrosse players wouldn’t have been accused if they hadn’t hired strippers and engaged in racist and sexist behavior. Their behavior put them at risk. If men get drunk and hire strippers, it’s no surprise they get accused of rape:
<a href=“Duke lacrosse case - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>"The players contacted Allure and requested two white strippers, but the women who arrived, Mangum and Roberts, were respectively half-black and half-Asian. One player asked if the dancers had any sex toys, and Roberts responded by asking if the player’s penis was too small, according to the team captains. The player then brandished a broomstick and suggested that she “use this [as a sex toy].” This exchange of words abruptly stopped the performance, and both strippers went inside the home’s bathroom. While the women were still in the bathroom, Seligmann and Finnerty left the house. The women came out, and Mangum roamed around the yard half-dressed and shouting.[19]</p>

<p>Shortly before 1 a.m., Mangum and Roberts entered Roberts’ vehicle. Roberts[20] called the attenders “Short dick white boys”, and “how he couldn’t get it on his own and had to pay for it”, to which one player yelled “We asked for whites, not ■■■■■■■.”</p>

<p>Finally predators are natural hunters. Foxes, lions, and falcons seek food for survival. They have nothing in common with drunks and perverts.</p>

588

<p>Points well taken. Though to be fair and gender-balanced, we should add that choosing to be a stripper or prostitute is going to significantly increase a woman’s risk of being raped. It also drastically reduces a woman’s credibility.</p>

589

<p>“We’ve all been assuming that women are the sexual victims in most cases. I’d imagine there are plenty of cases in which the woman is the aggressor, using her hands, getting on top…etc. Think how difficult it would be given the biases in these college tribunals for a man to report that he was sexually assaulted.”</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I seriously doubt that there are plenty of cases, but there may be a few.</p></li>
<li><p>Usually the guy is larger and stronger so that raises more questions.</p></li>
<li><p>I would need to understand how it happened that he was too drunk to consent, and did not consent, but still had an erection and an orgasm.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I supposed it could happen, but I would need to understand more.</p>

590

<p>What is needed is to have a credible process that is first of all a path of healing for students who feel they have been abused or worse criminally assaulted, second has a due process that is understandable and makes legal sense within the concept of an honor code e.g. is not administratively adjudicating points of criminal law outside of the legal system instead of tandem with the legal system and thirdly is a system that is not protectionist - does not presume guilt on one side as a starting point. Right now there is one questionable process that is used for the entire spectrum of issues - from cases that have no bearing on the welfare of the entire campus to cases that absolutely are criminal and probably should not be handled solely with a college code of conduct for the welfare of not only the entire campus but society as a whole. </p>

591

<p>Way behind here, but will see if I can address some posts in the time I have.</p>

<p>@poetgrl wrote:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I understand your viewpoint about this being a revolution. That is one way to look at it. Allow me to add one word before I respond; the word is democratic, as in democratic revolution.</p>

<p>However, I do not have the confidence that it will lead to the results many expect for one reason: democratic revolutions are founded in righting what a society sees as a fundamental unfairness. And by fundamental unfairness, I mean something that was just simply wrong to do for which there existed no remedy or an unfair system in place that clearly discriminated. This campus rape issue fails on both fronts.</p>

<ol>
<li>Saying that females were being ignored strikes hollow to many. Why? It was those women who refused to file police reports. Therefore, this mantra that women had no effective remedy seems trumped up based on a self-induced crisis. Democratic revolutions are rarely successful when things are judged to be overblown when proven remedy options already did and do exist. </li>
</ol>

<p>I agree with you the schools are to be blamed because they were the idiots that told females not to go to the police. My take on that is there is no law mandating anyone follow the advice of an idiot. And even if there were such a law, just ignore it and try another way.</p>

<ol>
<li>Democratic revolutions also do not take established institutions and go backwards in what people see, as fair and open, as compared to what exists already. </li>
</ol>

<p>This quasi-legal process set up by schools does strike many as going backwards. When schools have no defined process stipulating that both the accused and accused are treated fairly, people take pause. </p>

<p>People, in general, know that in the current court system both the accused and accuser fairly have their say; they also are aware now that this is not the case with what the schools are currently doing. No one will trust a school system based on the regression in rights for either party and a regression in openness to be subject to public accountability. The public accountability issue is especially true for state schools that are supported directly by federal tax dollars. </p>

<p>A democratic revolution will not be successful if people see the result would be the replacement of an open door system that allows both sides to speak with a closed door system that pre-weights outcomes and involves pre-judgements based on gender. </p>

<ol>
<li>The best that could happen out of this is the rules of sexual engagements are better defined. However, anything that reduces rights for any party is not something, which will be accepted. Therefore, this may be a revolution, but if the public deems it an undemocratic one, it will ultimately fail in its quest.</li>
</ol>

592

<p>There is another double standard that exists, too, for what is commonly referred to as drunk sex.
If a female has been drinking, she can claim she was drunk and not responsible for her choices.
If the male has been drinking, he is considered responsible for his choices AND also can be considered obligated to make the best choice for her too.</p>

<p>Another problem is defining “drunk”. Degrees of intoxication? Driving impaired at .08 is illegal, but while it is impaired, no one I know defines that as drunk. A person not using their best judgment due to booze is far different than having No judgment because of booze. </p>

593

<p>@actingmt wrote: </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Or about people who treat others differently because they see the others as victims, even if they are not victims. </p>

<p>Philosophically speaking, defining groups of inherently-qualified victims is just another way of codifying and justifying discriminatory activity. Just a label to make a double standard appear humane. </p>

594

<p>@Saintfan wrote:</p>

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</p>

<p>You have your history inside out. </p>

<p>History does not support your statement; it actually supports that our current system saves innocents, which is is actually designed to do.</p>

<p>The dark ages were when there was no due process en mass and too often the word of the accuser, e.g., member of the ruling family et al, was good enough to create mass hysteria and punish someone, who may be innocent. The right person calls an innocent person a traitor or witch and the innocent had no chance to live. </p>

<p>More specifically, our system was set up to protect innocent people from false charges: false charges brought by a vindictive government, vindictive people, unstable people, and people who hold certain views in harming others.</p>

<p>Only totalitarian systems and governments assume that one party in a dispute has unquestionable character and honesty.</p>

595

<p>“There is another double standard that exists, too, for what is commonly referred to as drunk sex.
If a female has been drinking, she can claim she was drunk and not responsible for her choices.
If the male has been drinking, he is considered responsible for his choices AND also can be considered obligated to make the best choice for her too.”</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It is written as a person penetrating another person, so it is possible that it can be the female. The point is that it is the person taking that action that is responsible for it. Just like every other type of case.</p></li>
<li><p>What if they are both drunk and the woman says, “Wouldn’t it be funny if I cut your d**k off and taped it over the door?” He may be drunk too and laugh and say yes. However, if she then actually takes the action, she will be in legal trouble. She will not succeed in arguing that he said yes, and they were both drunk, so how was she to know he was too drunk to consent? The person taking the action is responsible. </p></li>
<li><p>There is a difference between drunk and unable to consent. This who “we were both drunk argument” sounds equal but in reality, the woman is smaller and often more drunk. “Drunk sex” makes it sound like it is equal, but that is usually not the case. </p></li>
<li><p>It is difficult for a man to successfully argue that he did not have capacity to understand the situation, but did have the capacity to get an erection and have successful intercourse.</p></li>
<li><p>If the woman is on top and is voluntarily initiating foreplay and the act itself, I do not think she will convince anyone that she did not understand what was happening, so that really is no different from the man.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are a guy, and you are with a girl who you do not know well, why take the chance? Sex when drunk with a spouse or regular sex partner is probably not so risky. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>6.Men have to adjust to the fact that women who are drunk and nearly passed out are no longer fair game to carry back to your room. If you do it, there can be consequences. Saying you were drinking too will not save you.</p>

596

<p>Well recently in Texas a judge stated that she gave a light sentence to an admitted rapist because the 14 year old girl involved couldn’t have really been raped because she was already sexually active. I would call that basing a decision on the perceived character of the accuser. That is also why some people would feel that a prostitute or a “massage” therapist can’t really be raped. With the exception of a black man accused of raping a white woman in the south (before SEC football domination) the man was assumed to be more trustworthy and of better character. </p>

<p>In my area several highly publicized rapes happened to women who might not have been believed before (a Hispanic office cleaner and an Asian massage provider) and were perpetrated by professional men (attorney and employee of large software firm). That both rapes were prosecuted is a huge step forward. However, it seems that women of lower social standing are still seen as easier marks for predators just because of the perception that their character might be called into question. Thankfully where I live the legal system is catching up.</p>

<p>In the case of rape by ex husbands, boyfriends etc. the predatory person often comes off looking MORE stable and the woman can seem flighty and unreliable partly because of the dynamics in the relationship. The New Yorker had a very good piece on this recently RE domestic violence and the courts.</p>

597

<p>Please, how many of these cases are young men carrying passed out women back to their rooms? Tell your daughter not to pass out in public for starters. Public intoxication is a crime, too.</p>

598

<p>This is an anomolous case, actually. </p>

<p>In most cases of rape, while there may have been drinking, it is not drunkenness. I know that we like to act as if the only interesting case of rape on college campuses, and the only thing that happens, is that some poor guy gets really, really drunk and penetrates a passed out or uninterested woman “by accident.” This is not the case with most campus rapes.</p>

<p>At this point in time, the main thing is to get women to report rapes. The more they report these attacks, the more of the rapists will be caught and punished and gotten off campus and out of society. These are serially criminal offenders. If strong records are kept by the police and by the school, and if women report the majority of rapes, the whole he said/she said issue will be elimnated, as it will be “they said”/he said.</p>

<p>Just like all sex offenders, there are patterns of behavior and grooming and choosing that goes on on the part of the perpetrator. They do use alcohol. They do target freshman. They do this more than once. </p>

<p>Most men do not do this. Most men prefer to be with a willing and interested partner. these are sexual offenders, not healthy men.</p>

599

<p>much2learn brought up some interesting points. I just don’t know why my comment was quoted first; most of the points had nothing to do with the limited statement I made.</p>

600

<p>@momofmusician17‌ </p>

<p>Thank you so much.</p>