<p>Is anyone interested in attempting to redirect the thread into a more positive and constructive discussion that actually has something to do with the OP?</p>
<p>@poetgrl wrote:</p>
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<p>@Flossy wrote:</p>
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<p>OK, we do not seem to be discussing the same thread here. </p>
<p>All the linked cases, except for the Brown one, are all about guys who thought they had consent and are now called your “accidental” rapists. And alcohol was a major part of the equation of both parties.</p>
<p>This thread is about what recourses these males have when accused and not allowed to defend themselves in terms of their claim they had consent. This thread is not about date rape drugs and serial rapists on campus. </p>
<p>Best we get back to the issue that started this thread.</p>
<p>@alh wrote:</p>
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<p>I am.</p>
<p>Even though we do disagree, we reached the same conclusion, as to the current discussion.</p>
<p>I think that college personnel who fail to report rape to law enforcement should be considered an accessory after the fact. </p>
<p>I also believe that any student harassing another student for filing a charge should be charged with interfering with an investigation.</p>
<p>awcntdb: I am not interested in engaging in any more discussion with you. At all. With the possible exception that if you want to start a book group thread on Sexual Politics. Then I would probably participate.</p>
<p>I’m on my way out for the night. Work all week! Good luck ! </p>
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<p>That will not fly at all because the issue is what is going to be deemed harrassment.</p>
<p>People are free to express their opinions on whether they think something is accurate or correct on not. Expressing an opinion is NOT the same as interfering with anything, as no one is asking anyone to change stories or their minds or anything else. it comes off as rather wimpy that someone can make a charge, but no one else is allowed to call them on it or express a different opinion else they deem they are harassing someone. </p>
<p>This is the same problem the colleges have created for themselves - trying to limit why others say regarding a situation. </p>
<p>This dog won’t hunt for a minute.</p>
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<p>Well, don’t. That is cool. Just ignore my posts. </p>
<p>But just realize that I am free to critique your posts and if you choose not to defend yourself that is your issue. But, I will respond to your posts if I believe there something to critique.</p>
<p>@ awcntdb
Expressing an opinion is one thing. If it is done in a hostile or threatening way, that is another. If they have an opinion they can express it to the authorities.</p>
<p>If a reasonable person would think that the intent of the comment or action is to convince a victim to withdraw their charges through intimidation or threat, that is a problem. They are interfering with an active case.</p>
<p>In fact, I would take it a step further, and say that it is interfering with an investigation only if the accused is found to be innocent. If the accused is found guilty and a student attempted to cause / harass the victim into withdrawing charges, in my mind they are now an accessory to rape after the fact also, and acted to try to impair the investigation of the crime. That is a serious charge. </p>
<p>The harassment of rape victims for reporting a crime needs to stop.</p>
<p>Who is harassing rape victims who report the crime? I’m not sure I follow. Most of the media play this has gotten have shown women yelling in front of buildings - I’m not sure media has ever shown men yelling in front of buildings after acquittals. Maybe they are and the media is just more interested in the women’s side of the story after an acquittal.</p>
<p>If you are talking about charges students bring up to colleges under Title IX, I’m not certain harassment is occurring since every single college has a confidentiality agreement. If the person accused is harassing the accuser that just gets added to the strikes against him and would probably result in expulsion. I have no knowledge of what goes on between the accuser and the accused in Title IX proceedings and neither does the media.</p>
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<p>I agree with you that harassment should not be tolerated. I believe you will get a 100% vote there from everyone on every campus everywhere. </p>
<p>But, defining harrassment brings the issue right back to the same problem the colleges are having with micro-aggressions. One person’s seemingly innocent comment is another person’s fighting words. </p>
<p>The underlying problem is people are so sensitive today that no will have a clue what the other person thinks is harassment.</p>
<p>I just can’t see how it could work. People, language, words and actions are too dynamic and one’s person logical stated opinion could easily be another person’s harassment and a call to lock the other up in the stockade. </p>
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<p>I have not seen this reported anywhere in any case. Maybe I missed it. From what I have read the accused diligently stays away from the accuser and follows instructions to steer clear until resolved and most even steer clear after that.</p>
<p>I suspect harassment would get to be defined solely by the accuser if the accuser does not like what someone says, writes, texts, or blogs about the case, and the accuser takes it personally and says she feels threatened, even if what the person says is truthful and accurate. </p>
<p>We are back to redefining words and people’s sensitivity to words again, regardless of meaning and intent. Language is too malleable to survive this or even try to implement. If we think lawsuits defining consent are tough, defining harassment would be even 100X tougher because it potentially involves the actions and words of everyone the accuser even thinks is threatening. </p>
<p>@ Momofthree “Who is harassing rape victims who report the crime?”</p>
<p>In the University of Michigan football kicker case much earlier in the thread, another football player threatened the victim.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the school took no action for years.</p>
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<p>OK. You made this sound like it was some huge problem that we missed here.</p>
<p>Though, I am not sure the account of took no action for years is correct, unless it is a different case. Looks like the campus police acted swiftly and even his teammates did as well. </p>
<p><a href=“The Cover-up of the Arrest of University of Michigan Football player, Brendan Gibbons, for Rape - Washtenaw Watchdogs”>http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/university-of-michigan/the-cover-up-of-the-arrest-of-university-of-michigan-football-player-brendan-gibbons-for-rape</a></p>
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<p>I mean that they let the rapist stay on campus until after the kicker graduated 3 years later and had only one gave of eligibility left. Once his usefulness to the school was gone, they expelled him. </p>
<p>Neither the school nor the police took any real action about Lewan, beyond a warning. He is a star football player, so everyone turns a blind eye. </p>
<p>Interestingly, shortly after Lewan’s Michigan eligibility was used up, he was also charged with a crime that was committed before his eligibility was up.</p>
<p><a href=“NFL draft prospect Taylor Lewan facing 3 charges - ESPN”>http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10639453/nfl-draft-prospect-taylor-lewan-facing-3-charges</a></p>
<p>I think athletes should be held to a higher standard, not a lower one. The attitude that they are untouchable as long as there are games left in them, is not acceptable to me.</p>
<p>Michigan is a great school, but their football coach and President should both be fired if they are putting football ahead of student safety and the law.</p>
<p><a href=“The Cover-up of the Arrest of University of Michigan Football player, Brendan Gibbons, for Rape - Washtenaw Watchdogs”>http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/university-of-michigan/the-cover-up-of-the-arrest-of-university-of-michigan-football-player-brendan-gibbons-for-rape</a></p>
<p>From the article:
After the rape, the woman left the Chi Psi house immediately. She called a friend who met her on the way back to her dorm. She was crying hysterically and she told her friend what had happened[7]. She reported the incident to the resident advisor of her dorm, to a university housing security officer, campus police and to Ann Arbor police. </p>
<p>She was taken to University Hospital for a rape examination, which showed vaginal tearing. </p>
<p>Brendan Gibbons admitted to having sex with the young woman but claimed that it was consensual. “She never asked me to stop. We were both into it.” He stated that his whole life would be ruined, the girl always wins</p>
<p>Is this what people mean by a he said/she said scenario?</p>
<p>No, that sounds like a rape committed by an athlete and covered up by the university.</p>
<p>The young woman did everything she should do, but the DA still refused to charge a football player, and Michigan did nothing either until years later when his eligibility for football was almost up.</p>
<p>Officials working together for the good of the school above all else. Just like the Penn State child rape case. I do not understand what it takes to get people’s attention and get this to change. </p>
<p>From my perspective, this is kind of going overboard in wanting a law and some sort of regulation to cover every single adverse event, which happens between people. And a law does not mean much really because with prosecutorial discretion not every offense rises to the level of being criminally charged. </p>
<p>In this case, the school was protecting its moneymaker athlete. To extrapolate from this case there is some huge problem with accuser intimidation requiring another law is overkill. There were clearly enough laws on the books already to charge if they felt like it; they warned him they could charge him; they chose not to. </p>
<p>We do see society differently in that I do not believe any society can regulate itself into continuous good and proper behavior by its citizens; laws only really punish the extremes. The fact that people still steal, punch others for no apparent reason, drive at 180 mph etc. proves this, and there are thousands of laws criminalizing those activities.</p>
<p>I read the police report, and it sounded in the report as though the girl didn’t want to press charges? Did she ultimately agree to do so? Can the DA successfully prosecute against her wishes? I am unsure if I was seeing the entire report and the ultimate disposition, but she seemed reluctant at best. In addition, the accused stated he was willing to take a polygraph. Did he ever take one? I wonder if he did and if the results combined with the victim’s reluctance led to the lack of prosecution? Does anyone know more or have links to more statements or facts about the case?</p>
<p>Without a polygraph, if I were on a jury I find her version of events more believable especially given the bruising and the immediate reporting. </p>
<p>I do agree that the laws are in place to go after this guy, but it didn’t happen. The NCAA could assist here by mandating a suspension for athletes involved in assault investigations until the case is adjudicated one way or another. That would be an incentive for athletes to be more careful and for schools to prove more preventative education to D1 athletes. Not so sure if athletes are more commonly involved than other parts of the student body though. </p>