<p>Not one person on this thread would disagree with this. </p>
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<p>The key to laws and statutes is interpretation, not what is literally written. For colleges, the Title IX consent provision is written as gender-neutral. However, it does not take much to deduce that it is not implemented as gender-neutral. It is not my thinking either; just read the relevant court cases. There is an overwhelming difference in what is expected for the male to do and understand in a situation, as compared to the female. It is not something people are making up; that is exactly where the colleges are finding trouble. </p>
Who said this? Certainly not me. I will say that if the prosecutors decline to prosecute, the most likely reason is that they don’t believe there is sufficient evidence to get a conviction. That’s not the same thing at all.</p>
<p>Are you “saying” that anybody accused of rape must be guilty? I don’t think you’d like to have your position mischaracterized in that way.</p>
<p><a href=“1”>Quote</a> situations of a sexual predator taking advantage of a victim; (2) situations in which the parties would have consented to sex drunk or sober, and result in no complaint against anybody; (3) situations in which there is no predator, but in which one of the parties would not have consented to sex if sober–and who makes a complaint, and (4) situations in which there is no predator, but in which one of the parties would not have consented to sex if sober–and that person chooses not to make a complaint because she doesn’t feel she has been wronged. It’s clear that participants in this discussion have very different ideas about what the breakdown of these categories is–I will say that I have become persuaded that there are a lot more of (1) than I previously understood. I’m pretty sure (2) happens pretty often. It’s (3) and (4) I’m not so sure about.
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<p>As for #1, I do not think the cast of characters is as wide as wide this thread might lead people to believe. </p>
<p>The question about #1 that needs to be broken out is how many of these sexual predators are actually athletes who feel they have the power of the school to defend them, so they think they can get away with it? I am of the thought that sports have become such a big business for schools that there is an element of collusion that occurs to protect finances more than punish actual rape cases. A focus should be put on that aspect.</p>
<p>After the athlete cases are separated out, then I would feel comfortable trying to ascertain what constitutes the percentage of #1 for the standard male predator who expects no defense from the college. That is the guy to watch for, as the athlete is easy to avoid. With athletes broken out, it would not surprise me if #1 is actually lower than the other categories. </p>
<p>Well, actually, acw, what you will find is that the number of rapists is rather low. Very low. But the number of rapes they perpetrate, like all sex offenders, is very high. This is a part of what is taught in bystander intervention training. You don’t have to stop that many guys to stop most of the rapes on college campuses. You have to stop very few. </p>
<p>Normal guys really don’t mistake a passed out woman for a willing partner. Normal guys understand consent. And women who have sex with a guy after they’ve had a few drinks don’t think they were raped. They think they had sex with a guy when they were drinking.</p>
<p>The issue, really, is that normal guys don’t conceive of rape, or intercourse with a passed out woman, as sex. So, since rape is pretty inconceivable to them, they have a difficult time imagining this. They fall prey to the idea put forth by the rapists that this could happen to anyone. But, it rarely does: 1. because very few rapes are even reported. 2. Because false reports in rape are no more prevalent than false reports in other crimes. I could cite sources, but this has been well cited on this board over the past couple of years, and I’m tiring of the conversation.</p>
<p>So, yes, there are very few rapists on college campus. But, there are a lot of rapes. </p>
<p>This is a side bar to clarify . . . the day before their wedding there was a domestic call to the home of Stevens and Solo - I think they were both hauled in and had been scrapping with each other. They did marry the next day. In the latest incident Solo showed up at her sister’s home and is said to have assaulted her sister and nephew. Stevens, for once, was not involved but did show up for her hearing. Because this happened at our local university and he was drafted by our local team (under different leadership) I thought it was common knowledge somehow. Solo is also a former Husky and they live locally. Carry on . . .</p>
<p>As another sidebar, harking over to the strange name thread, one might think Stevens’ fate was sealed when his parents made the bizarre choice to go with an invented spelling of Jeremy. Of course, that doesn’t explain Solo, who has a perfectly lovely name (Hope Amelia).</p>
<p>Even on a large campus if you are a freshman girl on greek row and somewhere also on greek row is the equivalent of an entire football team (80 players give or take) and a basketball team (15 give or take) and depending where you are a bunch of Lax bros how easy will it be to just avoid them all? How will you know who they are (linemen and tight ends aside)? What about kickers who some would say aren’t really athletes at all and couldn’t necessarily be identified as such by their build? Is the young woman from Michigan absolved from questionable risky behavior after all because she was raped by a kicker rather than an OT? Do you paint them all with the same broad brush as likely predators as a group as a young woman? Can you even go out in that case or will you have to stay at home? What about the young woman in the Stevens case who was walked back to her sorority house by friends but unfortunately not seen all the way in the door? Can you still say that she was mingling with the wrong people?</p>
<p>Are rapes perpetrated by athletes just to be discounted, then, since they are a special case? How about other individuals with status of some kind? </p>
<p>It should also be clear to the statistical purists here that we have heard about many of these cases because the perps were athletes. If an athlete is alleged to have raped someone that is newsworthy and people write feature articles about it. That doesn’t mean that athletes do most of the raping on campus. </p>
<p>Also . . . I completely forgot about the need to avoid the hockey team. This is getting more and more problematic as the numbers of potential rapist who should just be avoided wholesale keeps growing. Then there are those Cali schools with their swimming and water polo . . . what’s a girl to do? @-) </p>
<p>@saintfan “That doesn’t mean that athletes do most of the raping on campus”</p>
<p>True, but it also doesn’t mean they don’t either.</p>
<p>There is a good amount of press related to “Hostess Programs” and similar arrangements leading to a sense of entitlement (without even getting into the disgusting aspect of it). I would definitely bet that athletes are overrepresented.</p>
<p>Tee hee…my youngest is a laxbro, defense no less…high school football player…defense no less…6’ 4" and 230 pounds and according to many threads he would be dirt under shoes and that’s putting it kindly… But he’s an engineering student, declined a couple fraternity invitations and has walked many tipsy to drunk girls home freshman year. dealt with the campus police so one didn’t get an MIP…and delivered them right to their doors. Yeah, I’m not much for labeling large groups of people. And i know this because he is constantly ribbed about being the campus DD (designated deliverer). I don’t boast much on these threads, but the helmet sport things just strikes a major nerve so I found humor in your post. </p>
<p>I think rapes ARE committed by very few…just seems like colleges have swung their bats time and again just hoping to hit the ball. But if they get a playbook I think they will do a better job with their batting averages. </p>
<p>I believe that her point was not that the women serving in that capacity were unwilling, but that such red carpet treatment might lead some athletes to believe that they were entitled to red carpet treatment everywhere with everyone.</p>
<p>I know and it might. I guess I was speaking more generally about her tone on this thread. Certainly if women are generally throwing themselves at you it would be harder to recognize the subtleties that typically precede a sexual encounter.</p>
<p>I think you hit on much of the crux of the disagreement with that comment. We have discussed a number of publicized cases involving athletes on this thread and I would be hard pressed to describe any of the proceedings or aftermath as “subtle”. Bruising and tearing isn’t part of a “typical sexual” encounter it is part of rape and/or delivering a 10+ pound baby. Holding someone down or up usually isn’t either. The victim in the Stevens rape was deemed by the prosecutor to have consented because while he had her pinned against the outside wall of her sorority she was partially standing up under her own power . . . in other words, with his assistance her legs were still under her. </p>
<p>Well look how well it’s working for Stevens and Solo - angry woman + helmet sport man --generalization…maybe wonder who would file a sexual assault case first if they were in college LOL</p>
<p>Sports Illustrated’s issue this week has a horrible article entitled “The Case Against Darren Sharper”. Apparently it is this type of guy who is very problematic. Accused by nine different, mostly unrelated, women with some witnesses. No convictions yet. Sounds like he uses drugs each time. The article definitely makes him sound like a sociopath. He did target college age women by and large. It doesn’t seem any clearer to me how this type of person will be stopped. </p>
<p>There is a difference between being discounted and targeted. My point is to target.</p>
<p>At least for wife and I, we taught our boys to understand where danger lies and try to stay a step ahead of it because they are bear initial, primary responsibility for looking out for themselves. Bad things will happen, but we told to look ahead and if they have known information about something untoward or that has a higher potential for danger, it is up to them to be preemptive and avoid. </p>
<p>In that vein, if a school(s) realizes that the problem with sexual assault are mainly situated within particular divisions of their school(s), it is wise to target that and find ways to ferret out the problem. And, it also allows resident advisors and others let incoming students know where problem areas lie within the school re sexual assault.</p>
<p>That strikes me as increasing the safety of females if they can be given a heads up re safety-wise. That I think is where a lot of schools are going to be held to account. They know where problem areas and students are in their schools and they never warned many of the females who eventually filed complaints.</p>
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<p>You don’t; except to put him away. That is why it is important what I just posted above.</p>
Of course, that doesn’t explain Solo, who has a perfectly lovely name (Hope Amelia).</p>