I assume you mean that she shouldn’t be afraid of aiming high? I go back and forth. I know many don’t have rank at all anymore or only have deciles. But I would think if the schools see 1/350 right in front of them it should carry some weight. Plus the underrepresented state and at least quasi-agriculture background should be in her favor. Some days I think she shouldn’t ED and should add Yale to the list.
Other times I lie awake in bed hoping she gets into Connecticut or Macalaster.
My D goes to Rice and it seems to check a lot of boxes for your daughter. I agree that reading through the Fiske guide might be helpful. It’s actually what drew my D to Rice. We are also from the midwest and while Texas was definitely NOT of the short list of places she wanted to go, she was intrigued by what she read about the school. She applied last minute and was pretty hooked once we attended an admitted student day.
I actually just typed, and then deleted, the ways I felt Rice meets lots of your D’s requirements. But, it sounded like a commercial and was probably more info that you wanted. I would though encourage her to give it a serious look.
As a side note, and I promise I will get back to addressing everyone’s comments, I am wondering more how what schools do this fall will affect things, especially as campus plans start to come into view. Bowdoin is having only first years on campus. Tulane said they won’t allow more gap years from the 2020’s than normal. Amherst and Cornell said they will be generous with gap years, but it won’t affect the class of 2021 (don’t really know how that is physically possible). Those are just a few that come to mind that I have heard anything about their plans.
@Lindagaf and for others following – I’ve got to disagree about the characterization of Haverford as “preppy” and Bryn Mawr as “more preppy than not.” Bryn Mawr is very very far from preppy. Haverford’s Quaker ethos, with collaboration and community, sets the tone for campus and it is not preppy, though is populated by generally nice, well-meaning, earnest students. Both schools are located in Main Line Philadelphia, which is “preppy” in the old school way, but neither campus feels it, the way.
Vanderbilt:
A bit on the larger size of what she wants, although she has a few schools that size on the list. Currently she doesn’t have the scores for it. Not excited by TN. But mostly it isn’t on the list because there are others she probably likes more and it didn’t have any compelling reason to rise up for her. More a lack of positives than a negative if that makes sense.
Richmond, Rhodes, Centre:
How’s the political climate there? Right now she is surrounded by hard core conservatives, and she is extremely sick of it. She told me about a year ago, “I want to go somewhere I can say Trump is an asshat and not get shouted down that he is making America great again and that I must hate America and freedom if I don’t think he is the best president we have ever had.” She’s pretty done with those people.
If there are a couple around that’s fine, but they need to be a significant minority. I think she would actually like to go somewhere where you can have an intelligent conversation about political issues without it resorting to one POV being considered evil and deserving of being ostracized. Having said that she is ok with a semi-liberal echo chamber as long as it isn’t too extreme. But probably not ok with anywhere that seing someone wearing MAGA gear isn’t an anomaly.
@Lindagaf lots of good points that lead to a couple of questions from me:
How is Hamilton an outlier?
Could you elaborate on what you mean by preppy, beyond the Greek aspect?
That is an area I am concerned about but I don’t really know what is better for her. TBH, I’m not really sure where she would fit in on that scale. We live in middle America, and she is kind of a generic white girl from there. Not at all a partier, I know that can change in college but my guess is that with her it won’t. She goes back and forth between athletic gear and dressing fashionably, although it is budget fashion even for here so I don’t know how that would fit in some of those places. My guess is if there are sororities and they are a big deal on campus she would want to join, although if they aren’t there she won’t miss them. I would say her friend group is like her, athletic and active but not talented or driven enough to be pursuing their sports beyond HS except recreationally. I’m not sure if that info helps you give better advice or not, I’m just giving some more info.
We have Fiske from 2018, I’m guessing most schools haven’t changed much. We also have Hidden Ivies. I will have her use those plus Niche to try to narrow things a bit. Right now she is more focused on the stupid ACT. She gets stressed if we dig too deep, so I just have 5 minute conversations with her here and there and get her on a couple hours of info sessions a week to keep the wheels turning on the college selection.
We have visited Cornell, Rochester, Hamilton and BMC. Cornell was too big, Rochester she loved but has since cooled on a bit mostly because of the big intro science classes and concern about the weeding. Hamilton she initially didn’t like but it was a bad visit for lots of reasons that were mostly superficial. She almost crossed it off the list entirely, although now she will say mom was the one who was negative and even though she had a few concerns she has always liked it. It has been climbing back up on her list ever since the visit, to the point where she will probably ED II there, although I could see Vassar taking that spot, or someone else that climbs the ladder in the next 6 months. BMC seemed too SJW, but then we kind of decided maybe her tour guide was just too over the top. Since then a couple people have pointed out that in their opinion it wasn’t just our tour guide, that’s the atmosphere on campus. That isn’t her first choice, although she might be willing to live with it. Would kind of like a second visit if that becomes a realistic option. Right now it is on the list more as a safety.
Any chance you (or anyone else) could compare/contrast U Rochester and WashU?
Glad you have The Hidden Ivy’s guide. The descriptions in there are more expensive and ring truer than Fiske.
I usually agree with @Lindagaf, but don’t agree that Hamilton is an outlier in her top 3. I think among those 3, Amherst and Hamilton are more similar and Vassar would be the outlier. Vassar would be more artsy, less sporty, more in your face liberal than the other two. All 3 are fantastic, but of the 3 think Vassar is the one that is more of a ‘fit’ school.
@wisteria100 , thanks! You probably know better than I do.
@dadof4kids , I think of Hamilton as being less liberal than the other two, I guess. Certainly less liberal than Vassar.
I’m sure people have their own ideas of preppy. To me, it means a little more straightlaced with perhaps more Greek presence, or that kind of vibe. I guess more “classic” LAC feeling?
@Midwestmomofboys , I am not an expert, but to my D and I, and from what I’ve gleaned about Haverford over time, it felt preppy to us. I’m glad it didn’t to you. Many people will not agree with me, I’m sure.
These colleges are more alike than they are different. If OP’s D wants to narrow the list, she might want to figure out these nuances more. It’s good that others have different opinions.
@dadof4kids regarding the University of Richmond…
If you believe websites like Niche where they poll students, apparently the political leanings are pretty evenly split. Generally speaking, Richmond (the capital) and the surrounding area join Northern Virginia as being the reliably blue parts of the state of Virginia.
You can also get a peek into student life by looking at their campus newspaper, The Collegian. This was one of the articles I found: https://www.thecollegianur.com/article/2020/03/students-respond-to-political-climate-on-campus-ahead-of-super-tuesday?ct=content_open&cv=cbox_latest
Skidmore:
She’s over the 75% academically, but their acceptance rate is 27% Anyone have opinions on how I should be looking at that? If it is a safety or near safety, it might be a reasonable one to add to the list. I guess this question applies to a couple other schools. I don’t really know how to address this, and there are no kids from her school that have gone to schools like this in the last 10 years.
Carleton
Initially she was super high on Carleton because of the calendar. Similar I think to Dartmouth where they have 3 classes at a time where the whole semester is crammed into 10 weeks, rather than a year long class getting split into thirds. The odd vacation schedule she likes, because her close friend group will probably be going to college at the local directional, so she could hang out here with them when she is off. I think it mostly drifted down because it is drivable and she is hoping for a bigger change of pace.
Whitman
This has been on my list for a while, she is a bit cool to it. The town is in the middle of nowhere and about the same size as where we live now. So she feels a bit like it would be too similar of an experience. Also she is a bit cool to it because of the one alum she knows, which is probably not representative but that’s her perception.
Rice:
@PrdMomto1 feel free to send me the commercial, either here or on pm. Part of why it isn’t as high on the list is frankly because I feel like she already has too many high reaches and that’s where I would put Rice. If she had a free ticket into any school in the country it probably makes her top 10, maybe higher.
Skidmore is definitely not a safety.
I think Carleton is a great school. D loved it when she did a summer program there.
Whitman is a fan favorite here on CC. D knows several Whitties from her study abroad experience. Cool people.
College of Idaho has the Peak program, 1 major, 3 minors in 4 years.
University of Puget Sound has some interesting programs and is more liberal and open as well (and coastal).
Skidmore is need aware in their admissions decisions. In the info session we went to, they came right out and said they prefer to deny students they feel can’t pay what they determine the EFC to be. I think that reason alone contributes to the lower acceptance rate since they want more control over their yield rate. Other schools are probably similar but we didn’t hear any other school be that blunt about it from the very beginning.
Regarding Skidmore as a safety (and other potential safeties) – the general advice on CC is that a safety is a sure acceptance/affordable/and student would like to attend.
At LACs like Skidmore and many others with below a 30% acceptance rate, being in top 25% of stats means a student is probably not an auto reject, but doesn’t mean it’s a safety. Some long time posters would say anything below a 30% acceptance rate is a reach, though some others might say that, for a school with acceptance rate between 20-30%, then if a student is above top quartile in stats , shows interest, shows that they “get” campus culture, then it is more of a match. On either scale, Skidmore not a safety.
I appreciate the comments re: safety in general and Skidmore in particular.
I think there is a continuum from super reach to automatic admission. I get why people put it into 3 groups, but I do think it is more complex that.
If we define safety as sure acceptance/affordable/happy to attend, I don’t think that school exists for her. I agree that she should have a school like that on her list, but I have a feeling that’s not where we are going to be. Honestly the best way to address that may be getting her excited about state U.
The state U app means she is definitely going to college next year and it is affordable. She doesn’t hate It. Once apps are in, I’ll probably start subtly selling it. I’ll have 3 months before we know for sure it’s her only option. That might be what she has to settle for as a safety.
I’m thinking trying to have 4-5 in the low match category where she has stats in the top half will hopefully fill that category. Schools like Macalester, Connecticut, Skidmore, MHC, thinking her odds are good (not guaranteed) to get at least one of them, all of which she would be happy to attend. Then several that are less likely but not out of reach either.
Thoughts?
@dadof4kids ALL Northeast colleges with rigorous academics lean left – both the student body and the faculty. Conservatives are few and far between. The difference I think is in the degree of political activism which ranges from passionate to observer-status. There is no shortage of kids from wealthy families at ALL highly rated privates; however, those schools with the greatest endowments spend generously to attract diversity of all kinds – racial, religious, economic and, yes, geographic.
I would put Amherst and Hamilton in the same “bucket” as Bowdoin, Williams, Middlebury, Kenyon, Davidson, Skidmore, Colby, Conn College, Trinity, Colgate, Dartmouth. Some of these have Greek systems, with or without houses, and some do not. I would characterize the overarching personality as physically active – either sporty or outdoorsy – and engaged, both academically and socially. Politically, more middleground, but still liberal.
I believe your daughter’s FFA involvement would be a unique and appealing EC that can be leveraged in essays and recommendations, especially with a sustainability slant. A student with a wide range of academic interests won’t have a problem fulfilling distribution requirements which are generally broad-based.
I think the “Why College X?” essay is critical, especially if visiting remains elusive. The ability to articulate an understanding and appreciation of the college’s culture is essential, and is, to me, a major factor in admissions.
It’s essays, recommendations and most important is to really understand the school and align her story to the school ethos. Imho.
Our d sounds a lot like your student. She was a recent (2018) val with 4.0 uw 35 act and 13 aps with nearly all 5s. Athlete with the same physical limitations as your d but team capt. She only applied to about 7 schools and had some of surprising decisions. Not surprising since it was our first rodeo in 25 years. Things have changed.
But you have a son at an ivy so you know the process better than we did obviously.
Aim high as mentioned. But aim well also.
I really like your list. And would agree with @Lindagaf with Bates being a great option based on what you stated as your goals. Any of the schools you mentioned so far would be outstanding.
Interesting take on Hamilton by @Lindagaf, but I have to disagree. My D20 applied ED to Hamilton. It was not on her original list. In fact, she was turned off by the descriptions she read about “light” and “dark” sides, and didn’t understand how two architectural styles could exist on one campus. “That’s weird,” she replied after reading about it online. We didn’t even plan to visit. Last year over April vacation we did a week-long tour of several NY LACs and larger universities, mainly interested in Skidmore and Colgate. After visiting Colgate, I convinced her to swing by Hamilton since we were so close. (30 mins. away.) She grumbled about it, but after a disappointing tour of Colgate decided she had nothing to lose. Three more visits including an overnight and she fell in love. In the end, she was struggling between applying ED to Hamilton or Bowdoin. She ultimately decided to go Hamilton ED, and Bowdoin EDII, where she is a legacy (H went to Bowdoin).
I couldn’t disagree more on the feeling that most of the students are preppy. In fact, she chose Hamilton over Colgate and Skidmore because she felt the student body was more diverse. She is AfAm and knew NESCACS are not known for having high numbers of Black students (the highest Black percentages are at Amherst, Wesleyan, and Bowdoin), but appreciated the diversity of the Caucasian students on campus.
She was looking for a diverse student body, but for her “diversity” meant more than race and ethnicity. For example, she didn’t want a school with a heavy emphasis on athletes (Colgate, Williams), or a school with mainly “artsy” types (Wesleyan, Skidmore). She wanted to know that students in the finance club also participated in theater productions. She appreciated the mix of different personalities and types she found across Hamilton’s campus. Perhaps this is due to the “light” and “dark” sides? 
Although Hamilton’s Black student population is only 5%, she liked that they were well-represented in leadership positions on campus that went beyond the affinity groups, like ALANA. Black and Latinx students had prominent roles in several clubs and groups on campus even though they were a much smaller percentage of the population. We didn’t see that at some of the other NESCACs (I’m looking at you, Tufts).
There were many reasons she fell in love with Hamilton (including the fabulous open curriculum!), but I thought I would add my two cents about the “preppy” comment. My H was crushed she picked Hamilton over Bowdoin for ED, but she couldn’t be more confident in her choice.
Edited to add: Unlike Colgate, the Greek system is not a major part of the social life at Hamilton. Only 19% of students at Hamilton are in a frat/soror, and they do not have houses. It makes a big difference.
Unfortunately, hate politics is now the norm in US politics these days, at colleges and otherwise.
There are many elite colleges & universities with fair minded students willing to debate in a respectful fashion.
The irony in this thread is that OP’s daughter may be unintentionally running from one extreme into the other.