Time to get a list and strategy figured out

College Search & Selection
41

I think a safety, even for your super excelling D, would be ~40-50%+

Skidmore could be considered a reach, but I recommend that she applies to some top schools, some middle schools (very important!), and a couple of safeties.

A friend of mine applied in this format and did not get into any ivies, but got accepted to a middleish school (Georgetown). Another friend however, applied to only ivies and school around 15% or lower, and one safety. The only school she got into was the one with the 80% acceptance rate.

She was devastated, so to avoid that apply to school with a range of rates.

42

Definitely proceed with caution on considering Skidmore a safety. It isn’t. At the open house info session they were VERY clear that they look for students that love the college and want to attend. They have one of the highest ED rates of any of the schools on your list (I think they take close to 50% of their class through EDI and II). Throughout our visit we heard several times that they “don’t want to be anyone’s safety.” Given the acceptance rates from D’s high school, I think they do a good job figuring out which applicants are serious about attending. We have students who were admitted to Amherst, Pomona, and Bowdoin, yet were rejected at Skidmore.

I would still add it to the list as a match though.

43

My older kid gravitated towards LACs so maybe I can help. From what you say, your daughter is a serious student, wants classmates who take their studies seriously but are more collaborative than competitive, prefers NE but flexible WRT to geography, wants a more politically liberal part of the country but not a SJW echo chamber campus, is sporty and not a partier. Good so far?

From her top 9, it looks like New England/sporty/slightly preppy vibe is appealing.

We looked at many schools on your list so here’s my take for narrowing:

If Smith/BMC/Oberlin are seen as too SJW, then Macalester is likely to fall into that bucket and “possibly” Vassar and/or Grinnell.

Of the women’s colleges mentioned on this thread, Mount Holyoke might be the best fit as it is said to be less strident than Smith or BMC. There also tends to be a fairly large % of international students which would add an extra dimension to her college experience. COVID-19 will likely disrupt that in the near future but possibly this will be resolved by fall 2021.

Case Western is often compared to Rochester, yes. I know a student who went there, who found that for her it really is best for tech-oriented students, despite disclaimers to the contrary. It was less interdisciplinary than she had hoped. Students are serious and work hard, though, and the merit scholarships can be generous.

I especially like the fit of both Haverford and Carleton for her, both reaches of course.

For a safer admit and a good chance at merit, I really like St Olaf - kind, collaborative student body and excellent med school placement. Lovely campus on the outskirts of a pleasant small town, but with fairly easy access to the twin cities. More politically moderate than many LACs, no Greek life, and minimal partying. Carleton is in the same town.

She sounds great and I’m sure she won’t lack for choices!

44

Thanks for all of the continued advice. I have some follow up questions, but not enough time to get out something coherent. Maybe later today.

BTW, if you are looking for the TLDR version of my opening treatise, @mamaedefamilia summed up D in her opening paragraph.

45

Well, you know what you’re doing.

Here’s my thoughts, FWIW.

  • Going the other way, the only option I can think of till you get to the coast is Colorado College. I don’t know 'much about it really. The surrounding community is conservative but not necessarily the school…

-IIRC from when we lived in the midwest , the state U’s from some adjoining states gave in-state tuition to students from certain neighboring states. If that’s the case, if there’s a state U she might prefer to her in-state option that might be worth an application, for an alternative safety. All these schools would flunk various of her criteria, but in a pinch…

  • Too bad what you found about U Rochester "weeding". FWIW we know a number of Rochester alums who are in the health professions in various capacities. Most recently a cousin from the midwest who is now a physician. Who was not a top student in high school, FWIW. They said it was easy to get "needed" lab research jobs there. I've no idea, but I wonder whether their weeding is any worse than one can expect generally.

I donno, it’s up to you guys but I dont think she really needs to apply to so many schools. Surely she can review ánd trim the list. Some potential criteria: school doesn’t offer her preferred extracurriculars; too small; few offerings in areas that might interest her (check registrars list of courses actually given, not the course catalogs); unfavorably lopsided male-female ratio; unreasonably difficult to travel to/ from your house compared to other similar options, … (whatever else she can think of)

46

Here’s a crack at categorizing the list. Let me know what you think. I realize it is too many schools to actually apply to, but I’m just trying to categorize ones currently in the running.

I know this is a chronic problem, but given that she is probably in a different less competitive bucket than most and has the class rank, I think she is sitting pretty high everywhere, especially if she can get the ACT up. But I also know with the low admit rates, a 1600/4.0 Olympic medalist isn’t a sure thing at most of these schools either if she isn’t getting recruited for her sport.

Let me know what you all think. I tried to put them in what I am guessing is roughly the order of her chances, worst to best. Mostly I used acceptance rates, but made a few adjustments for where I thought she might be more desirable than the average applicant.

High reach/unlikely but not completely out, maybe 10%

Brown
Dartmouth
Pomona
Bowdoin
Rice

Reach maybe 10-20%

Willams
Middlebury
Colby
Haverford
Tulane
Amherst - ED (putting here because of ED)
Davidson
Carleton
Vassar

Low reach/high match 20-30%

Grinnell
Bates
Colgate

match, maybe 30-40%

Hamilton - ED II (putting here because of ED II)
Wake
Richmond
Rochester
Case Western
Skidmore
Macalaster
BMC

definitely not safety, but probably 50/50 schools or very slightly better

Connecticut College
MHC
St Olaf
Whitman
Occidental
Rhodes

Safety

State U where she is auto-admit

Go ahead and poke holes in this, I’m not looking for affirmation I’m looking for help.

Thanks.

47

I would put Williams and Amherst (even ED) in the high reach category, unless your state is a real hook. I remember attending a Williams info session and North (or was it South) Dakota was specifically mentioned as a state that Williams desperately wanted to add

48

I agree that Williams and Amherst are high reaches.

Following this discussion, Skidmore sounds similar to Scripps College.

I am happy to see both Whitman and St Olaf on the list. Both provide excellent merit aid for high-achieving students in various disciplines.

49

Regarding similarities and differences in the top three schools, Amherst and Hamilton place together by their NESCAC affiliations and their uncommon (for liberal arts colleges) 50/50 gender distributions. Vassar, at an about 41%/59% M/F ratio, will tend to offer a different social atmosphere compared to the other two colleges.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/amherst-college-2115

https://www.hamilton.edu/admission/apply/class-profile

https://www.vassar.edu/admissions/class-profile/

50

I think others probably have better info. But we have visited these 2 schools, I forgot to mention WashU because she was a soph and not really in visit mode, we just went because we were in St. Louis anyway.

I got more of a nerdy vibe at Rochester. I think also a bit lower stress at Rochester. WashU seemed more competitive. Both campuses and students we met seemed very friendly. D liked both of them. I think if you survive WashU’s pre-med program you are sitting in a great spot, although I think that is hard to do. That factor pretty much crossed WashU off of her list.

WashU stressed that they were full need but NOT need blind. I think it has one of the most affluent student populations in the nation.

51

That has been a concern about Vassar. It seems to really appeal to the theater crowd, at least judging by the CC parents who post that their kids are there. D said she likes people in the theater crowd at her HS, but doesn’t hang with them because they don’t have much in common.

I have talked to a dad of a current student, and by his description I think my D would be ok with the vibe. The daughters don’t know each other, but before she applies there I plan on getting the 2 of them together for a conversation, which the current student offered to do.

52

@privatebanker S19 is at an Ivy but as a recruited athlete. S18 applied to 2 schools both of which he was an auto-admit.

So while I have some experience, this still is kind of my first rodeo.

Much less stressful with the athletic recruit, btw. The big factor was being able to get feedback. There were places I thought were huge reaches where coaches made it clear that they were options if he wanted them. Others that I thought should be safeties wouldn’t give him the time of day. That feedback helped guide the process, and led to an ED where he knew that he would almost certainly be admitted.

For all I know Brown is dying to get a student like her, while St Olaf has no interest. But there is no way to know without submitting the app and hoping for the best. I used that as a seeming ridiculous example, because some of the feedback he got (positive and negative) was on that extreme level.

53

A couple of random thoughts:

  • generally this list looks good
  • Vassar always seemed to me to have a lot of SJWs
  • Match and low reach colleges may defer or waitlist your kid as they might think you are using them as a safety college and won’t accept their offer.
  • apply EA or early to a safety and get a quick acceptance. It’s nice to have an acceptance in hand by October/November to take some of the edge off the waiting game. Ex my D20 applied to IU Kelley and got an early acceptance and lots of scholarship money. It was a nice feeling for D while she waited on other EA and her ED college.
  • I would limit your list to 12-15 colleges if you are not chasing merit.
  • Lastly, especially this pandemic year, make sure the colleges you apply to are solvent and can/will weather this financial storm. How they deal with this crisis might really show you their true colors (some will sink and some will shine).

Good luck.

54

Since she’s interested in pre-med, it’s nice to go to a school close by to a couple of hospitals so it would be easier to get some shadowing experience and internships. Also, it might be worthwhile to see if the college has a med school, whether it gives admissions preference to kids who go to their undergrad school.

And I agree with the other poster that since your D wants to do some academic exploration, you should look into how many classes kids typically take in a year.

55

That’s an excellent point. While she would prefer the opposite extreme to her current one, what she really wants is a place where people can have a political conversation and not walk away hating each other.

As @ucbalumnus alluded to, those places are getting harder to find, on or off campus. I am cautiously optimistic that after the next election we can put some of the politics of division behind us, although there are plenty of people on both sides with no interest in finding common ground so who knows.

56

@monydad thanks for the comments.

I think you are right, Colorado College is about it until you hit the coast. I have a cousin in CO Springs, and it’s a beautiful area. The deal breaker there I think is the structure. Every class is 3 weeks, and you take one class at a time. While I would have loved that (even at 48 I have the attention span of a fruitfly, 3 weeks and I am ready to move on) she isn’t really interested.

I’ll check out some of the schools we have exchanges with. You are right that they will all have deficits, but there may be a diamond in the rough she would prefer to State U.

Maybe Rochester isn’t any worse than others, in which case it should probably be higher. That’s a frustrating question to answer. It doesn’t seem like that info should be so difficult to find, but it is.

I hear what you are saying about # of apps. I have mixed feelings about it. The biggest thing I worry about is that I think her situation is going to be a bit random. Her app looks different that normal, so I think it’s a bit harder to predict who will be in the market for a girl like her. When you add in the uncertainity from COVID and the disruptions to the 2020 class, I think there is a huge added random factor. When you combine that with the existing random factor, I feel like anything could happen. She could get into 1/2 of her reaches and high reaches, and she could end up at State U. Both would slightly surprise me, neither would shock me.

I am paying a bit more attention to the essay requirements due to the large # of apps she is probably doing. So if she can’t decide between Wake or Case for example, Case might get the nod because it doesn’t have supplements. So I’m hoping she only has to do supplements for a dozen or so schools, even though she might end up applying to 20. She won’t be doing more than that, if the Common App doesn’t allow it we aren’t going to monkey around with finding schools with their own app to circumvent the cap. As it is, I’m sure her GC is not going to be thrilled with the logistics of her applying to 20 schools, especially where the typical student applies to 1 or 2.

57

@socaldad2002 thanks for the advice. Not a safely, but she will apply EA to CWRU and Tulane, I’m thinking they will both make the final list and have EA. I think Tulane is a bit of a crap shoot for everyone at this point, but hopefully CWRU will be a yes. If so, that will make January-March much less stressful.

I think her app has to be in to State U (which has rolling admissions) by early December to get full scholarship consideration. So even though it won’t be her first choice, she should have the admit in hand and quite possibly a decent scholarship offer a couple of months before the gets the bulk of her decisions.

I think all the schools here are financially ok, aren’t they? Anyone think otherwise? Definitely I want to know. I guess this could be an issue with any safeties that get added.

58

Sorry for the slew of posts by me, I was trying to address as many comments as I could that I though needed addressed.

Thanks for all of the comments, if I didn’t respond it probably means we are in general agreement and I understand what you are saying.

59

Regarding Tulane, it’s a very tough admit unless you apply ED. They have no app fee and get tons of kids that apply there (44,000). In the last 6 years they went from around 30% acceptance rate to 11%. They defer many, many high stat EA kids. Demonstrated interest is big there but not always enough. With that said, being from the Midwest should help with their demographics.

60

@dadof4kids i think we talked about CWRU privately before, but if she’s serious about it, I encourage her to do as many demonstrates interested actions as possible. On a normal non pandemic year, they defer a lot of kids and don’t want to be a safety for anyone. They offer interviews (online), and I would have her reach out to her regional rep for follow up questions. It was my D’s second choice school after acceptances came in and we really enjoyed her visits to campus and Cleveland.