Tisch CAP 21 summer vs. CAP 21 (audition) summer

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Hi everyone! This is my very first post and a bit nervous so here goes!</p>

<p>My daughter is a rising junior in CA and just auditioned for CAP 21 yesterday in NY and she also applied to Tisch CAP 21 and my questions are (sorry so many!):</p>

<p>Is anyone out there who applied to both summer programs, got into both and had to decide between the two programs? </p>

<p>In the end, what was your decision and why? </p>

<p>If you get rejected from either program, is this a bad mark in your file when you apply for college? My daughter has a 4.0, great experience, her teachers love her, community service, etc. but at the end of the day she is still a sophomore and is concerned that the universities will see that she was rejected. I’m wondering now if she should have held off on the non-audition program until next year. </p>

<p>Lastly, does either program ever “save spots” for rising juniors in the following year because they like someone but don’t accept them because so few spots are given to the younger group? Or, do they just reject you and then welcome you to apply next year?</p>

<p>My daughter had a very positive audition yesterday but as I have seen in previous posts it seems to be very difficult to get in as a current sophomore. Neverthless, they asked her a few specific questions like…“If you were to do this program, do you have a place to live?”</p>

<p>I would appreciate any answers or advice anyone can give. I feel very fortunate to have found this site. Thank you in advance! :)</p>

2

<p>I never had a child of my own who applied to either program, though I have had students whom I advise who have applied or who have attended both of these programs and so I know a bit about them. I also have a daughter at Tisch/CAP21. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Is anyone out there who applied to both summer programs, got into both and had to decide between the two programs? </p>

<p>In the end, what was your decision and why?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There are differences between the two and one is not better than the other but simply different and it is a matter of which meets your own selection criteria. I also encourage you to read the many threads on the Tisch/CAP21 forum here that address one or both of these two summer programs and you will glean much information about the differences and reports of people's experiences attending either of these programs. </p>

<p>The Tisch program is four weeks and the CAP21 program is six. The Tisch program gives college credit; the CAP21 program does not. The Tisch program has one "academic" type of class related to theater and the CAP21 only has the training classes. The Tisch program is highly supervised when not in class and all live together in an NYU dorm and there are organized activities at night and on weekends. The CAP21 program is only during classtime and the student lives on her own and is not supervised when not in class (though can secure housing in NYU dorms). In the case of a rising junior like your D, I don't think she could live in the dorms as I think you have to be 17 to live in the dorms for summer housing (though ironically my D was a college freshman at 16 and lived in the dorms). Anyway, one thing, in my opinion, that you would have to weigh is if you would be comfortable having your rising junior living on her own unsupervised in NYC. That is one of the main differences between the two programs. Also, the CAP21 program admits just by audition and the Tisch program has no audition but relies on strength of the application. Both programs are very good and both offer very similar training. The training part is not what is the difference, in other words (other than number of weeks). </p>

<p>
[quote]
If you get rejected from either program, is this a bad mark in your file when you apply for college?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Absolutely not. It won't be on record that she was an applicant to the summer program. Not getting in for the summer won't be part of her application for college at all. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Lastly, does either program ever "save spots" for rising juniors in the following year because they like someone but don't accept them because so few spots are given to the younger group? Or, do they just reject you and then welcome you to apply next year?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No....you have to apply each year for that year's summer program. There is no hold over from previous year's applicants. If your D doesn't get in this year, she can apply next year. </p>

<p>Welcome to CC's MT Forum!</p>

3

<p>bwaysweetiemom - my friend Soozie provided you with a ton of valuable information already, but I will add this, my D, now a freshman at CAP, applied for Tisch CAP21 summer program as a rising junior, and was wait-listed. She re-applied as a rising senior and made it into the program :D. I feel that knowing how badly she wanted to go, helped her the second time around; in fact she wrote about that experience in her essay that year, how she had gone to BTP instead and felt that she was better prepared. </p>

<p>She never applied to CAP21's program directly, because we simply liked the idea of a supervised program better, and so I can't compare notes there, but please know that in her freshman class there is a mix of kids, who did one program or the other, but also kids who didn't do either.</p>

4

<p>Thank you soozievt and MTgrlsmom,</p>

<p>This forum is priceless and I've seen many of your replies in previous posts and you both and many others are very generous with your time so thanks again. I find this process overwhelming but my D is in overdrive and I am just trying to keep up with her.</p>

<p>I've been trying to tell her not to keep all her eggs in one basket, but ever since she did a couple of films for 2 NYU grads she's wanted to go there since she was 9 and she is not budging. </p>

<p>Can anyone tell me what some other excellent MT colleges are out there so I can at least get their brochures and put them in front of her?</p>

5

<p>hey i did the CAP21 pre-college MT program (auditioned based) and LOVED it. you get to train in the real studios, work with the CAP21 faculty, and understand how CAP21 really is as a program. everyone was very talented, nice, and open to one another. i was a commuter so i didnt live in an apartment or in a dorm or anything, but i know the kids who did loved it because no one was telling them what to do all of the time. i think doing the program over the summer definitely helped because i am now going to be attending NYU/Tisch - CAP21 in the fall as an early decision candidate! if you have any questions, feel free to message me!</p>

6

<p>ecollege202, thanks for your reply! </p>

<p>hey-congrats on your ed acceptance! they told my daughter yesterday at her audition that she was a bit on the young side but they felt her maturity level could handle the program. and then they asked her if she were to get in does she have a place to live? would you say this was good feedback for an incoming junior?</p>

7

<p>no problem and thanks so so much! i definitely think that is great feedback - i think there were at least 8 incoming juniors over the summer so it's not like they don't accept any. if they said that she could handle the program and were wondering if she had a place to live, it shows they are interested in her and think she would benefit from the program. please keep us all posted on what happens, she should hear really soon! and again, message me if you have any questions!</p>

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<p>yes, we will definitely let you know and thanks again for your feedback on her feedback!</p>

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<p>Does CAP have a summer program that accepts students who have recently graduated high school? I know that Steinhardt does not have an age cap for their MT summer program... anything similar? :-)</p>

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<p>MTGuy...
Yes, CAP21 (NOT NYU/TISCH) has a summer professional MT training program for ages 18 and over. </p>

<p>
[quote]
<br>
Faculty
Conservatory >> SUMMER PROGRAM
SUMMER PROFESSIONAL MUSICAL THEATRE TRAINING PROGRAM
(18 years & Over)
This intensive program trains participants to become balanced performers in all disciplines of musical theatre performance. The full-time program runs from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday to Friday for 6 weeks (June 29 – August 7, 2009). Program cost is $3,750. Placement auditions will be held on the first day of class. Applicants must be 18 years of age or older- having completed one year of college or professional work experience upon graduating from High School. No classes on July 3th. $35 non-refundable application fee.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>For more information, here is the link:
[url=<a href="http://www.cap21.org/summer_program.html%5DCAP21%5B/url"&gt;http://www.cap21.org/summer_program.html]CAP21[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>The 18 and over summer program has two options: Full Time and Part Time. This is not the same as the Pre-College Program. </p>

<p>ONE THING.....based on this description, it appears that you have to have either one year of college or professional work experience under your belt after HS. I would still call to inquire if a recent grad could apply or not. Perhaps not, not sure. </p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

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<p>Soozievt-
I have read and learned SO much from your posts-And now I have a question...I hope you can help. My D, Junior in HS, has applied to MANY summer MT programs-and She was just accepted to Walnut Hill!
She is thrilled-so am I- but we have to answer in 2 weeks-As you know, the other (per-college Musical Theater) programs will not notify until much later in Spring. Do you have any advice? D is over the moon but wonders what to do/ what if she is accepted at other pre-college programs. I dont know too much about WHill. D is 17, 18 this summer, . Will it be "too young"?
Thank you in advance, You seem to have a handle on the Summer-and College-process, which is VERY confusing...</p>

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<p>Well, I will try to answer though this really doesn't have to do with CAP21 which is what this thread is about. </p>

<p>But you bring up a common (but positive) dilemma when applying to summer programs because there is not one big reply date for all programs like for colleges where you must enroll by May 1 and give in your intentions. With summer programs, you may hear from some before others and they may require non refundable deposits or commitments. I don't know what Walnut Hill is requiring....just a deposit? is there any date by when that can be refunded? As I am not sure, let's just assume for a moment that the deposit can't be refunded if you back out and it is a substantial chunk of change. </p>

<p>My feeling is that your D applied because she was truly interested. If she knows she could be happy there, it may be worth making the commitment to attend even though she won't hear from the other schools in time. She could give up this slot but not be assured that the others will come through. But she could give it up if she truly prefers other programs a lot more. I don't know a thing about your D and her chances at these other programs. Some programs are very hard to get into (ie., MPulse, NYU/Tisch/CAP) and some not as much (ie., CMU). So, for instance, if CMU is on her list and she prefers it, it is not a huge gamble to give up Walnut Hill. There are many fabulous programs out there and you likely can't go wrong. That's the good news. </p>

<p>The programs simply differ. I have no clue your D's selection criteria. Some programs are pre-college ones, some aren't. Some are longer than others. Some focus on audition prep. Some focus on training. Some have a mix of training and production work. So, it isn't a matter of which program is best but more of which one fits what your D wants. If she likes what Walnut Hill offers, it may be worth signing up as it is a sure thing. If she MUCH prefers another program, you'd have to take a gamble. </p>

<p>All that said, Walnut Hill is very well known and considered to be a wonderful program. I have known kids from our region who have attended mostly for the regular school year, not the summers. I do not think a pre-college program is better. I think Walnut Hill has a great deal to offer and may be just what your D will love. I find that at most of these programs, the kids come away loving it....an intensive immersion with others who share their passion and talent. I doubt you can go wrong. Walnut Hill may have a mix of high schoolers, whereas some pre-college programs are just for rising seniors. But that doesn't mean there are not plenty of rising seniors attending. Ask and double check. My own child attended a multi-age theater camp for 8 summers and there were plenty of kids her age every year she attended and many were rising seniors or some had even graduated HS that year. I imagine Walnut Hill to be like that. If I were you, I would ask to get names of past summer students and have your D give them a ring to chat and you could chat with the parents of former summer students. </p>

<p>Again, I don't know your D's selection criteria, her talents, or where else she applied to advise you with any specificity here on the forum. But many of these programs are very high quality and if Walnut Hill matches what your D is seeking and she is thrilled to attend and it is a sure thing, I can't see why not going with it. I have had students get into a summer program such as Northwestern Cherubs before hearing from all their summer programs and they had to decide and they went with the sure thing and already knew they would like that program and were willing to give up whatever else MIGHT have come along later. That's the discussion your D needs to have. There is no one BEST program. With my own daughter, we did not even look into other programs at all. She chose at theater camp at age nine and loved it so much, she returned every summer (8 years through to entering college) and there was no contemplation of looking at alternatives or pre-college programs. She and we are very happy with the experiences she had. I imagine your D will come to love Walnut Hill if she chooses to attend.</p>

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<p>Hi Everyone! My D just got her acceptance e-mail for the CAP 21 Pre-College (audition based) Summer Training Program!!!!! We all cried! My D gave up going to her winter formal to focus on the audition and boy is she glad she did! We still have to wait until April to hear from Tisch CAP 21 (non-audition based), but we have to give CAP 21 a check and an answer by March 3rd!!!! What should we do? Anyway, if she decides to do the CAP 21 program she will be commuting and not staying in the dorms. She did a dry run last summer where she stayed with my sister in Times Square and attended Master Classes at BAA with strict curfew rules. It was a great experience for her and now she's ready to do it again! Thank you all so much for helping me through this. I love this forum. Everyone is soooo supportive and generous with their information.</p>

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<p>Thanks soozievt-(Sorry about the post being on the wrong thread -I am new to this-What would have been the best place to post this?)
Thanks for the advice-D needs to consider all these things. I will call to try to determine if there will be other rising seniors. She may want to wait for other options- more pre-college, and she is auditioning for CAP21. Hard to explain on a forum her talents,as Im her mom and think shes great!! Again, not a bad problem to have . She is fortunate to have been accepted and eager to find out what other schools think of her abilities...good practice for college apps next year!!!
Great information . Thank you so much for your time and information.</p>

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<p>Onlygirl:
There is a thread that discusses summer MT programs here:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/24364-summer-programs-discussion.html?highlight=Summer+Programs+Discussion%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/24364-summer-programs-discussion.html?highlight=Summer+Programs+Discussion&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As well, if you open up any of the specific MT school forums (similar to this forum on NYU/Tisch), and IF they have a summer -pre-college program, then there usually is an existing thread about that summer program (example, under CMU, there is a thread about the summer program; same with UArts, UMich, Northwestern, and so on). </p>

<p>Bwaysweetiemom, congrats to your D. My D has many friends who have done that program and really liked it and I have some advisees as well. I think it would be hard to give up that definite spot at CAP21 with the hopes of getting into the Tisch/CAP program. You won't hear in time and it is also quite chancy to get into that one. And I am not sure it matters as in terms of the actual TRAINING, they are similar. The overall set up is different. But your D is not trading off the actual training classes in your situation compared to two entirely different programs. I also have had students who commuted to CAP21 as they lived in the NY metro area. Your D likely won't be the only kid who does that.</p>

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<p>Thanks soozievt! Yes, my D will take the definite spot at CAP 21. Do you have an opinion on whether or not my D should do the Tisch program next year if she gets in as a rising senior? I would think as an applicant to Tisch for her college application they would look favorably on diversity. I wouldn't mind sending her to a UMich or Northwestern or another equally good program. Or do you think that her chances of getting into Tisch School as an undergrad would increase if she does both summer CAP 21and Cap/Tisch programs consecutively? Any thoughts? Has anyone ever done both summer programs? BTW-what is CMU?</p>

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<p>I would not pick a summer program based on the hopes of what would look best on the resume. I also would not pick a summer program with the thought of it helping to get into that particular college. I would have my daughter pick a summer program based SOLELY on what she WANTS to do for the summer. </p>

<p>In your D's case, in my view, the CAP21 summer program and the NYU/Tisch/CAP summer program are very similar when it comes to the actual training classes. It would almost be like repeating the program to do both but she would get something out of it each time naturally. So, the reason to do another program next year would be more to try a different program, and not anything to do with colleges wanting her to have diverse summer programs on her list! Just so you know, my kid went to the same summer program, Stagedoor Manor, for EIGHT YEARS, and got into many BFA in MT programs, and for that matter, she did no pre-college to "help" get into a particular college. </p>

<p>And no, I don't think her odds at NYU will be better if she does BOTH CAP and NYU/Tisch for two summers. Whatever little "tip factor" (if it exists at all) from having done a program for the summer at one of the CAP programs, will have already occurred. A second summer there won't make a difference in that regard. If she loves it so much and wants to experience a second variation of it a second summer, she should go right ahead. She may want to experience different training. I doubt hardly anyone has done both the CAP and the NYU/Tisch summer programs. Also, most who do pre-college are rising seniors. For instance, if a rising junior gets into CMU, they would not do it a second summer the next summer. These are not really like "camps" that you keep going back to like Interlochen, Stagedoor, or even Broadway Theater Project. The pre-college programs tend to be ONE summer deals. </p>

<p>CMU stands for Carnegie Mellon University which has both a top rated BFA in MT program and a well regarded pre-college program.</p>

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<p>I attended the CAP21 Audition-based summer program 3 summers ago (can't believe it's been that long). It was an AMAZING program and I would recommend it to anyone without hesitation.</p>

<p>On the difference between the two programs, I am at school with a girl who did the NYU/Tish Cap21 program the same summer I did my program. We have VERY different experiences even though we both took from most of the same teachers. We both loved the program but her's was definitely more a college immersion experience whereas mine was 6 weeks of only training.</p>

<p>I do know that many of those who applied to Tisch from my summer program did end up getting in; but that just might be due to the fact that they were very talented and didn't have anything to do with the fact that they had attended the program. Not sure but I do know people were asked about the program during the audition (I never auditioned at NYU as I go in ED to another program...but I was VERY close to applying ED to Tisch after this program). </p>

<p>And, just to throw this out there, there were a few people in my year that were repeating the program. They had done the program as rising Juniors and were repeating as rising Seniors (actually one was a rising Senior his first summer and was in his summer before college the second time...although I am not sure how he managed to do that one...) They still loved the program the second time around because it's a different set of kids and therefore a different dynamic and they learned from different teachers, etc. One repeater actually goes to NYU now.</p>

<p>I am rambling but I really loved this program and learned so much while I was there. If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask.</p>

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<p>Hi BroadwaySweetieMom,
My daughter attended CAP 21 between her freshman and sophmore year last summer(college).
It could not have been a better experience. She lived in a summer residence on 85th street recommended by CAP 21. The security was wonderful. My daughter matured a lot and also was able, last year to make some important educational decisions. She says her teachers were amazing, every one of them. Best of luck to you and you daughter!</p>

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<p>Hey Bwaysweetiemom! I just wanted to say that I'm also going to be attending the CAP 21 pre-college program and I hope your daughter and I possibly meet up this summer!</p>