To Benjones on whether i shud apply or not...

Colleges & Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1

<p>Hello Ben,</p>

<p>I have been reading ur posts for over 6 months now and as always found them very very helpful … i although hav some queries which if cud be answered by you wud be of gr8 help…</p>

<li><p>I got a verbal score of 600 and writing 620 … But my english is among my strongest … Am a journalist at national newspaper …hav awards on english(nat.debates) … BestJournalist for year 2004-05 and many many english related stuff… Do u still think the 600 wud hold down on me…</p></li>
<li><p>I attended the 3rd Diversity maters Forum with 65 countries organised by the Commonwealth society where a total of only 2 students were there … i was being one of them…that was my biggest achievement. and likes with posts lik foreign misiters and head of states were present… it was a grand meet… SO basically how do i present it… What i hav done is that attached a 2 page activity sheet with only major interest and dedicated fields and what i did there… and on a seperate sheet added all honor and awards which are beyond state level ( state, nat international …not the city level or schul ones)…there hav given a para on this…is this right??</p></li>
</ol>

<p>SAT1:
CR:600
Writing:620
MAths 800 (twice)</p>

<p>SAT2
MAths level2 =800
Maths level 1=790
Physcis:760
No toefl.</p>

<p>SO plz comment…I wud highly appreciate ur coments.
Have a nice day</p>

<p>Ankur
India</p>

2

<p>Keep in mind, the admissions committee has been out the past few weeks reading our applications, etc, and now they're probably on Christmas break (along with most of us students, I'd assume). I don't think Ben will catch this for a time (although I could be wrong).</p>

<p>With that said, keep in mind the international pool is far more competitive than the domestic pool. I would recommend taking the TOEFL if you still can to give MIT some options in deciding which one makes you look better. Your mathematics ability is represented in your SAT IIs, so a strong TOEFL score will outweigh the low SAT CR.</p>

<p>Personal opinion: Even if you can't take the TOEFL, you still have a fighting shot, I'd say. MIT looks for match over numbers, the problem is that with such a large pool there are usually people who have both the match AND the numbers. Even then, the only thing you know for sure is that the acceptance rate among people who don't apply is 0%.</p>

3

<p>Wow your scores are skewed. You clearly are great in math and science, but you're more of an English kind of person. Good EC's to prove that you do well in humanities. I really think you should have spread your SAT II's out into different subject areas. You've proven that you can get 800 in math, very apparent. You didn't take any humanities SAT subjects?</p>

4

<p>A better question than "shud you apply or not" is "would you ever be able to be happy knowing that you could have gotten in if you didn't apply?"</p>

5

<p>smartmind, while your standardized test scores would generally indicate a weakness in english and verbal skills, it seems more likely that you're just not a good test taker, because the fact that you're a journalist at a newspaper, etc, shows that you really are talented in english. I'm sure the admissiosn committee will look at it that way, and will realize that your test scores don't necessarily reflect your ability. I'd say you're competitive in the applicant pool. you've definitely got a shot at getting in...i wouldn't say you have very good chances though (because no one has a "great shot". come on...it's MIT) but you've definitely got better chances than the average applicant. I would apply if i were you, and maybe in the optional area, indicate that you feel that your test scores don't really reflect your ability. or if you dont want to come rigth out and say it, just talk about your involvement in the newspaper and your english awards, and why you feel that you're really strong in english, and let them make any connections that they feel are appropriate. Best of luck in admissions!</p>

6

<p>I didnt take any humanities sub tests coz i cant.. havent studied any of them in INDIA...
only oter options i had:::;</p>

<p>Mol Bio
Chem</p>

<p>No lit and world his for me..plzzzzzz</p>

<p>Also as ppl told me.. it is best to giv tests where u get ur best score...</p>

<p>salank.. yup i am strong in humanities and english...got a couple of gr8 national and international stuff to prove that ...</p>

<p>only bad part my english scores...my essays are also gud..
also i was thinkin abt ivy league point of view on this same issue..what wud they think ...</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
english is among my strongest

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
i was being one of them...that was my biggest achievement. and likes with posts lik foreign misiters and head of states were present.. it was a grand meet... got a couple of gr8 national and international stuff

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not Ben J. -- I do admissions at Caltech -- and as usual I would defer to his opinion when he gets around to posting it. But, for what it's worth, here are my thoughts.</p>

<p>Last time I said something along these lines, I got flamed for half a day, but I'll say it anyway. You claim you're good at English and the humanities, but your posts on this forum sound like they were written by an illiterate fifth grader. At the very least, this makes it less likely that you'll get taken seriously and get appropriate advice. Or, to put it differently, the way you present youself suggsts your English abilities are not inaccurately reflected by your SAT scores. It's not only spelling (though it's hard for me to see what's so difficult about spelling "would" or "great") but issues of diction and syntax, too. At the very least, when you submit your application, it should be a shining example of the immense English abilities you claim to have, since somehow they slipped through the cracks on the writing exam. </p>

<p>I don't mean to nitpick (I couldn't care less how people write on this forum) but do be aware that slipups in your writing style in the application can corroborate weak scores, and no amount of national awards will compensate when someobody can say based on reading your essays -- "Hey, this kid just can't write." So just be careful and try to have your essays proofread by a fluent speaker of American English. (Many things that are routinely said and considered correct in India are considered ungrammatical or awkward in America, and while adjustments are made for writing style in international admissions, it still hurts the ear a little bit to read something that sounds wrong to an American.)</p>

<p>But, to get to the main point... what other posters have said is true. In international admissions, it's typical to have lowish verbal scores but great math scores. The only difference is that the applicants are usually International Math Olympiad guys. The wrinkle with you is that your focus is in the humanities. Nevertheless, I think MIT (and most other selective schools) would be prepared to discount the verbal and writing SATs a bit because all the people who score 800 in the US are used to hearing and speaking a certain kind of English that people elsewhere don't hear and speak -- so it's unfair to judge by the same standard.</p>

<p>If your application itself seems eminently literate, and you highlight your English and writing awards appropriately, then you have a chance. An International student with passion and talent for English and the humanities is certainly a bit of a novelty (less common than math whizzes from India or China). But make sure every part of your application shows that talent and passion, because the awards are not enough.</p>

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<p>Hm. Ben Golub - you are simply amazing.</p>

<p>So often you end up posting exactly what I wanted to say or thought about saying, but decided not to, either for time or to avoid arguements.</p>

<p>My exact first thought when he said he was good at english was: "then where the hell did this post come from?"</p>

9

<p>I know what you meant with my diction and syntax.... actually when i made the comment here at CC, i did so in a matters of few moments and as always never paid the slightest heed to proper presentation.</p>

<p>However when i get down to the big admission stuff , my application does reflect my language capabilities. I rarely use proper English on the internet. Although as i stated above and do restate now, English as a language has been a key component of my achievements both in real life and applications.Dont take my English to be what you just saw, because i do write seriously and when i do so (even for the sat exams) , i do it nicely. At this juncture i would like to mention that i am a journalist at the Statesman India, which is among the most respected news daily in the country . It also has the reputation of being the oldest one presently surviving. I doubt that there would even be a whisker of doubt in the written components of my application throughout. And as what others have said, my essays have turned out really good( they reflect some naive and unique experiences of my past life) .
I though not being a big IMO, ,still have plenty of national science based distinctions . In fact i did try out the ISO 3-4 yrs ago and successful came as a state qualifier, yet owing to some personal health problems couldn't complete my journey there.</p>

<p>Keeping all these in mind and neglecting my poor language presentation limited to Collegeconfidential.com, could you still l give in more comments. Like for a moment, imagine what a journalist at a national daily would write in for an essay and whether by default his experience would make it good or not. And then keeping the language proficiency in mind, place your comments.</p>

<p>I though do accept that i am a poor test taker for language exams only.</p>

<p>SM</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
imagine what a journalist at a national daily would write in for an essay and whether by default his experience would make it good or not

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I've read plenty of bad writing by famous journalists, so I don't think anybody's essays will be good "by default": i.e., no matter how distinguished you are, it's quite possible that you might write a bad essay. On the other hand, if you are strong enough that you got (hired/accepted as an intern) at a major publication, and you give your essays your best effort, I'd probably put my money on them being good. (I am assuming, of course, that you didn't get your job at the newspaper through family connections, etc. Then they would reflect little about your abilities. But if you came out on top in a competitive selection process, then that surely indicates something about your writing abilities.)</p>

<p>So I think the consensus is that you, like many other people, have a shot at MIT, though nobody is a shoo-in or even approximately that. But I do urge you to take my advice and have your essays proofread by an American who is skilled at writing -- this is available even on the CC boards. You might think you're far too good a writer for that, but I promise it won't hurt, and humility is a key ingredient of almost all successful applications.</p>

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<p>Ben Thank You so much for that.. </p>

<p>If you may have noticed the last message was a lot more clean and decent than the previous ones..<em>followed your advice</em></p>

<p>Also , to tell you , i have already had the Director of American consulate, India(east ) read my essay and would get it read by many non-Indians too (especially Americans).</p>

<p>I wasn't definitely selected at the Newspaper by my family connections or something like that ( hehe i don't have any to use for that matter).
and selections were done throughout the city. Based on the Interview, Writing sample and on the spot creative-writing tests, I was selected. And to add to it, more recently i won the SSM trophy for being the Best Journalist for the year 2004-2005 by The Statesman ( This cannot be by connections **)</p>

<p>And thanks again</p>

<p>SM</p>

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<p>Those achievements are certainly impressive. Good luck to you : )</p>

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<p>oh well, I'm terrible in essays, I hope that doesn't make MIT think that I'm not capable of doing good in there :S</p>

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<p>smartmind: GOTO A LIBERAL ARTS SCHOOL MAN</p>

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<p>Just take the TOEFL and you're all set</p>

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<p>I cant take the Toefl because of some personal reasons. This is among the main reasons that worries me and the only reason that prompted my to start this thread..</p>

17

<p>um..
Sorry to ask, is it becuz u think that u won't get a good score on the TOEFL?
If that is your reason, you can just take it. And if the score comes out not so good (below 250), then just don't report the score to MIT.</p>

18

<p>NO.. I have given sample TOEFL tests and my score range comes in to around 270-295 and sometimes more.. </p>

<p>THe reasons are different and cannot be cited here....
As i said before and choose to say again , ,i cannot give the TOEFL
.
SM</p>

19

<p>What is more, the TOEFL is really expensive...</p>

20

<p>140$ is expensive :(</p>