<p>Sounds like she's done a lot of research and knows what she's looking for. I'm sure she'll have a great outcome.</p>
<p>
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While I am extremely proud of our DD, I don't think she hit a jackpot. From three merit $$ awarding schools - Duke, WashU and Vandy- she got in, she did not get one red penny of merit $$.
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</p>
<p>I'm speechless. The sense of entitlement and expectation here is just through the roof. </p>
<p>Sorry, from the standpoint of top 20 schools, 34 ACT kids with 4.0's, lots of AP's and excellent EC's are a DIME A DOZEN. That's WHY your dd, talented as she undoubtedly is, didn't get merit $. Because, while she's spectacular compared to the average person, it's not so spectacular WITHIN THE REALM OF TOP 20 that it merits merit $.</p>
<p>Dad II, here's a math problem. It's easier than AP Calculus!</p>
<p>Using valedictorians as a proxy for elite students, how many high school valedictorians are there in a given year?</p>
<p>Now, how many spots are there in the entering freshman classes of the top 20 schools, all combined?</p>
<p>Can all of these valedictorians fit into the top 20? If you were to populate the freshman classes of the top universities solely by valedictorians (and let's even leave aside legacies, hooked candidates, athletes, etc.), how far down the list would you have to go to accommodate all the valedictorians?</p>
<p>There are roughly 35,000 hs valedictorians in a given year. Does anyone have the entering freshman class sizes for the top universities listed in order, so we can see how far down you'd have to go to get all 35,000 placed?</p>
<p>"Using valedictorians as a proxy for elite students, ... , how many spots are there in the entering freshman classes of the top 20 schools, all combined?"</p>
<p>Now here's a recipe for putting all those pesky private HS's out of business -- admission based purely on class rank.</p>
<p>bulinskimom - Sorry your thread got hijacked. I think your D is (already) on the right track. Congrats!</p>
<p>^^ But I suspect the valedictorian from a "pesky private HS" may have a better chance of being academically prepared to succeed in a top school than the valedictorian of Podunk HS in Nowheresville, Mississippi... with a total HS enrollment of 200 students that offers no AP classes and has a sadly underfunded budget. At any HS someone has to graduate #1 in their class--even in a graduating class of 2.</p>
<p>PG, you are arguing from both side of the fence again. As to the 3500 Val thing, I think Jym626 gave a pretty good answer to that. </p>
<p>Early of this year, when I was seeking inputs as how to push DD to get a couple points higher on ACT, I believe you were one of the those people who jump up and down - saying that one or two pints were not important. Now, you are saying "34 ACT kids with 4.0's, lots of AP's and excellent EC's are a DIME A DOZEN". How could a kid get become a quater a dozen? </p>
<p>Sorry for hijacking OP's thread. My purpose is to show those who are coming to CC now how important a couple of points will make. If your child is in 9th or 10th grade, please work with them to get the GPA in the 4.0. Otherwise, they will be a dime a dozen when comes for the time for college admission.</p>
<p>More importantly, one must understand, I did that too late, that while most of the folks here are good people, they are playing with house money. If your D or S did not get in or miss $$, they don't lost nothing. Take every "advice" or "suggestion" with their face value and do what you think is the best for your child. After all, you are the one who will have to write that check.</p>
<p>One problem that seems to happen when kids score very high on standardized test is that all of a sudden they get boatloads of mail from vey elite schools--Yale, Harvard, MIT, etc--stating that they are a perfect candidate for that school. This can be very confusing for first time parents and students who don't understand what is happening. I even found it difficult to throw away these things because it was so incredible that these schools were "begging" for MY child---yea...right! Anyway, after talking to many people and reading CC for so long--its clear that these schools send out thousands of these mailers, and many people are convinced that their main reasons for doing so are to get all of these kids to apply--thus lowering their acceptance rate, causing higher rankings and more prestige--plus all that extra application money aint too bad. My main point is that just because one scores very high on these tests, it doesn't mean that all of a sudden you HAVE to go to one of these elite schools--if it is a good fit and you can afford it, great--but don't be deceived.</p>
<p>very good point, crefn. However, I would like to think the affordability of these elite schools should not be a factor from here on, with their new policy. Actually, I would like to think that for a high % of the attending students, the COA to PHYS may be lower than that of a State U this year.</p>
<p>THANKS CONSOLATION!!!!</p>
<p>We knew going into this it would be luck of the draw!
I always and often told my kids that they could go anywhere and be anything. (As in- you can be a doctor, lawyer, or indian chief at any school.) Also, told them there are no rejections, only schools you've been accepted to. Rejections don't count for anything as your choice and school will come from your accepted list.
Son took Miami (full ride) as he knows we'll have money for grad school and he'll likely get out of higher education loan free. I think he made a smart choice.
Parents get too hung up on the ratings of the schools. The ratings are composed of so many different things. Of course, research, etc may vary school to school, but does anyone actually think the graduate from school A and school B have such a different curriculum? Same text books, different schools. Unless it is top 100 vs less or non-selective school, I'd say not to worry. Example, physical therapy, nursing. These kids will get jobs no matter where their school ranked. (On the other side of the spectrum, friends son is at Yale. Engineering major. Plans to work at Goldman Sachs or similar. They recruit there heavily undergrad for summer internships. They train so they don't care what your major is. Obviously, these top schools are advantageous in many ways, but the majority of kids are not getting into HYPES so they have to be realistic.</p>
<p>Back to OP-
I still think that second list of schools you listed is incredible and realistic. No doubt your daughter will succeed anywhere!</p>
<p>Bul, your D has a great list. Good luck to her, and I am sure she will have a goodly number of choices.</p>
<p>DadII, the fact of the matter is that you are right. The chances are very small that a top flight student with great stats is going to be shut out unless all he has on his list are HPYMS. THAT may be a problem, I'm sure you agree,even if he is perfect. So what if we add Brown and UPenn as matches or safeties since statistically that is what they are for such a kid? Still a bit uncomfortable? Yeah, and we are already up to 7 schools. Would throwing in Vanderbilt do it for the list? Probably. But I would get a bit nervous if there were a number of kids applying early to Vandy and the adcom there is friendly to the GCs at the school (a situation that does exist at our school) What if the GC lets it out that maybe Vandy is a safety for you? THere had better be a lot of interest in that safety. </p>
<p>What I am saying is that though a kid like that would probably get into even more than one school out of that list, there still is a significant chance of missing the boat. As you add a few more schools on that list, it does increase the chances to give one breathing room, I agree. But why not spend a little more time and effort to find a school that is not so selective, that will surely take you, and that you love? One that might give you a good merit package. Such a skill would not be in vain, as it teaches much. And since you are already in college search mode, this is the time to do it. </p>
<p>Also if things do not go well during the year, it is nice to have a safe harbor there. Grades can suffer, kids do stupid things, stuff happens. Financial matters may take a plummet and is it really worth $52 to go to Vandy when a full or generous scholarship for another school is on the table, and the family financial future is suddenly not so bright or cetain? A little insurance can go a long way.</p>
<p>Dad II, your school may have a particularly good relationship with elite schools. It's possible that from your school top students are pretty much guaranteed top placements (our school does well too), but that's not the case everywhere.</p>
<p>bulinsky:</p>
<p>Your D's list has many good matches and apparent safeties. She certainly could include some reaches, such as Cornell or Stanford or Rice.</p>
<p>Some things to consider: 1.financial aid, whether need-based or merit-based. Is she committed to ROTC? Does she want to explore other options for funding her education?
2. travel. How easy and how expensive would it be to travel from college to home and back?
Size: schools of 4,000 to 10,000 tend to be mid-sized research universities, in between LACs and large state universities. She might be eligible for honors programs at some of the state universities.
As an Alaska resident, she could have a tip at quite a few schools.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Bulinsky - I think your D's list looks great! We have a girl in town who went to Notre Dame on ROTC scholarship. My D was accepted to ND, but in the end, chose WashU. ND is a fabulous school!</p>
<p>Regarding top kids applying to top school. As everyone else has said, those high achievers who apply to the top 20 usually get accepted by one/some. My nephew - 2390 SAT (one and only sitting), great EC's, NMF, Pres Schol semi, etc. etc. - waitlisted/rejected by Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. Accepted by WashU, Northwestern, Harvey Mudd and CalTech. Chose Northwestern. You just never know!</p>
<p>bmom:</p>
<p>I wonder if your D would be interested in an AFROTC opportunity. Look into University of Colorado-Boulder, which has NROTC and AFROTC. Also, it has a Department of Aerospace Engineering Sciences within its College of Engineering. CU gets the second highest amount of NASA funding of any uni in the U.S. (Relying on the accuracy of the Fiske guide here.)</p>
<p>If your D is into jets and engineering, this may be a better choice for her than UIdaho. </p>
<p>AFROTC</a> Detachment 105</p>
<p>A friend's dau, valedictorian of a very well respected private school in a large metropolitan city, was rejected from Harvard, WL at Princeton, admitted to Duke, Vandy and Tulane. While yes, hopefully most top students will get into one top 20 school, no one truly knows which one it will be, and whether that school really is a good fit for that particular student. Hopefully the students will stop applying to the top 20 just because they are the top 20, ans will instead apply to the schools that are the best for them and ones that they really want to attend. To recommend that a top student apply to the top 20 just because they could get into one seems to focus on potential bragging rights rather than the best college experience.</p>
<p>Quick side story in response to jazzymom's post #75 (true story)
In the mid 70's I went to grad school at a large flagship U in the south after having attended a small, liberal LAC in the north. Got onto campus and was walking with another grad student up a hill, past the ROTC buildings. Admittedly, I was not too familiar with the military back then, during those vietnam war era days. I look over as we were walking past the AFROTC building sign. I turned to the other student and asked "what's the AFRO -TC?"
When they stopped laughing 15 minutes later, the acronym to me :o Oops!! So embarassing!! I am now married to someone who was active duty military when we met, and stayed in the reserves for an additional 7 yrs. He is commander of his war veterans group. So I don't make those dumb mistakes any more (just new dumb mistakes).</p>
<p>Now returning to the thread and congrats to the OPs' daus choices.</p>
<p>What Gandert said--have her look at Notre Dame. Academics are fabulous, she'd probably laugh at the South Bend winters, which are a deterrent for kids from milder climates, and her profile really fits. They have a lot of overlap with the service academies and they have really strong ROTC. They love athletes. They have strong engineering and fabulous liberal arts. IT is a good college for students who have a strong faith. </p>
<p>My D. is there and loves it--she has some of the same traits you describe in your D. PM me if you have any questions. ND is unique--my D. was a terrific kid and a terrific student but she's developing there in ways that go beyond just academics. I can't say enough good about the school. </p>
<p>Oh, and Alaska Air flies into Chicago.</p>