<p>Perhaps it is semantics, but when I say "primarily on that trait" I mean that Penn's threshold for the other stuff-the "superior ECs, recs, essays, etc." will be lower than that of HYPS which all comes back to selectivity and all 2300ers (or any score) not being created equal. Especially since Penn loses cross admits rather decisively with HYPS, Penn would either need to admit kids that would not be admitted at HYPS or admit a lot of kids to maintain its yield which would inevitably result in the first statement. So no, I do not think that kids are getting "primarily on that trait", that trait being 2300, at Penn absent some hook. However, I do think a 2300er scorer, or any score of that matter, will likely have an easier time getting admitted to Penn than at HYPS.</p>
<p>
Absolutely! Except perhaps for Wharton. :)</p>
<p>Don't forget to add NYU to that list. It's known for breeding some of the most successful people in the world along with hordes of powerful politicians (I believe it has made the same amount of congressman as either Yale or Harvard). It's Business program is top 5 in the country and it's law school is top 5 as well. Amazing institution for real-world careers, namely business and law/civic society. </p>
<p>Besides Tisch, Stern, and the Law School though, it isn't really prestigious in anything else.</p>
<p>a 2300 obviously doesn't guarantee admission at a top 10 school, are we actually debating this?</p>
<p>^^ nobody was claiming that. Re-read the posts.</p>
<p>I agree, 45 percenter, that Duke is more numbers-focused than Penn. I've always noticed that Duke seems more willing to admit high-scoring students, and I daresay it's a tactic to boost its selectivity rating, thus boosting its overall rank. That obviously hurts its yield, but since yield doesn't affect US News rankings, that isn't as much of a concern to Duke.</p>
<p>I agree with Cervantes' post #1263.</p>
<p>45 percenter, you say "except for Wharton"; however, you did not specify such in your statistics in post #1251. Since you feel the need to separate Penn into Wharton and "everything else," we can apply the same to Cervantes' original statement. Yes, we are aware that Wharton is about as difficult to get into as HYPS in general, and that Wharton has an awesome yield, about the same as, if not better than, most of HYPS. So, does Penn non-Wharton accept most 2300+ scorers (where most is 50%+)? Is that data released? Perhaps, in a hierarchy of willingness to accept 2300+ scorers, it goes something like: HYPS + Wharton < overall Penn < Penn non-Wharton. Do you agree? </p>
<p>Out of curiosity, what are Wharton's acceptance rate and Penn's non-Wharton acceptance rate?</p>
<p>
<p>Out of curiosity, what are Wharton's acceptance rate and Penn's non-Wharton acceptance rate?
</p>
<p>Penn doesn't release official admissions data for the individual schools, but based on numbers reported in the Daily Pennsylvanian and statements made by officials to prospective students during Penn Preview Days in April, it appears that Wharton's current acceptance rate is in the neighborhood of 10%, the College of Arts and Science's rate is similar to Penn's overall acceptance rate of 16%, and Engineering and Nursing's acceptance rates are in the 20-25% range.</p>
<p>It's hard to determine an exact hierarchy of 2300+ scorers' acceptance rates for each individual Penn school because (1) as we've discussed, Penn is not as score-focussed as perhaps some other schools once a certain threshold is reached by applicants, and (2) I don't think it can be generalized that, e.g., just because Engineering's acceptance rate is higher than Wharton's and the College's, its acceptance rates for given SAT scores are higher (i.e., there may be some self-selection in Engineering's applicant pool that makes its SAT scores generally higher). Given Penn's policy of not releasing admissions data by school, there's no way for us to know for sure.</p>
<p>According to a Gallup poll: Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public, Stanford and Yale in Second Place</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Notre Dame</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Texas</li>
<li>Texas A&M</li>
<li>Ohio State</li>
<li>UNC</li>
<li>Penn State</li>
<li>U Penn</li>
</ol>
<p>wow....u penn = penn state....</p>
<p>that's credible...</p>
<p>It's just prestige, not necessarily value. I can say I heard of Penn State before UPenn, living in the Northeast. That list seems credible to me. Remember, the Gallup Poll are the people who do those Presidential polls and they usually are pretty accurate.</p>
<p>haha you like any poll that makes Berkeley outrageously high, and hate any that put it realistically (USNWR). Its interesting, but obviously the poll includes a lot of uneducated/blue collar workers who do not really know much so strong sports schools or big state schools get a boost. After HYPS, the average person really has no clue, but anyone that matters to you will.</p>
<p>^ ZOMG, holy grail of all polls...ZEERRGGGGG....</p>
<p>lol, Bescraze you didn't read the whole link. This is the poll among post-graduates:</p>
<p>
[Quote]
What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here's the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:</p>
<p>Harvard</p>
<p>29%</p>
<p>Stanford</p>
<p>27</p>
<p>Yale</p>
<p>14</p>
<p>MIT</p>
<p>11</p>
<p>Berkeley</p>
<p>7</p>
<p>Princeton</p>
<p>7</p>
<p>Michigan</p>
<p>7
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>These aren't "blue-collar" workers. Even if some people don't view Cal's undergrad as top 10 as an overall school it most certainly is.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Even if some people don't view Cal's undergrad as top 10 as an overall school it most certainly is.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have no problem with this assertion if you back it up. If Cal undergrad is top 10 then what does it replace. Is it better than Penn or Columbia, is it better than MIT or Duke, or is it better than Chicago. Everyone has different rankings for top 10, I think this is the common perception though</p>
<p>HYPSM
Penn, Duke, Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth</p>
<p>Some people would throw Chicago in there and Cal tech for egineering, but overall that seems like the common perception. The next 5 are more of a tossup but probably</p>
<p>Chicago, Wash U, Hopkins, Northwestern, Cornell</p>
<p>Yes Berkeley wasn't there, since the strength of its student body is not up to the level of these schools</p>
<p>I said: some people don't view Cal's undergrad as top 10, as an *overall school<a href="grad,%20ugrad,%20professional%20schools">/I</a> it most certainly is. Also, when referring to a school as "top 10" it's more of a level than a number. Lastly, you can't make claims about common perception all the time.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I know what you say and I will repeat what I said. Back up your statement, what school is it better than that I listed as top 10?</p>
<p>Come on, do we need to go through this again? There are many things that make Berkeley amazing: top tier graduate programs across all disciplines, highly ranked undergraduate programs of study (almost all their undergraduate programs are ranked in the top 10), top tier business and law schools (and de facto association with UCSF a top tier med school), 99% of all kids in the tip 10% of their class, elite science and engineering programs-indeed second only to Stanford and MIT in engineering, etc. the list goes on. This is not to say Cal doesn't have its weaknesses, which it certainly does as do all schools except Stanford ;). Now, I must repeat myself that "top 10" is a label not a number. Indeed, excluding HYPSM, no school is "always" in the top 10. It isn't lets replace one school for another. Indeed, Alexandre, a highly reputed poster on CC, contended that there were at least 17 schools that had legitimate claims to "top 10" status, Cal being one of them. As you know though this issue has been discussed ad nauseum on CC.</p>
<p>^^ agreed 100%.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And so it goes on, such is the nature of this forum. Two years now I've been reading the CC forums, and one thing is clear: the arguments go in endless circles.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is not to say Cal doesn't have its weaknesses, which it certainly does as do all schools except Stanford
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hard to argue with such brilliance...</p>