<p>^ The Stanford 1-2-3 punch with RTP breaking up the sequence :(</p>
<p>Bescraze the argument goes as such...</p>
<p>Berk has well regarded UG programs -- Haas, Complete Engineering dept, etc --along with a top heavy student body that gives its UG enough power to make waves -- overcoming its limited reach and talent pool.</p>
<p>I love the Stanford/Cal love going on here =P</p>
<p>This is a thread about overall prestige - Berkeley is plenty prestigious.</p>
<p>In terms of strength of individual departments, Berkeley kills Penn, Duke, Columbia, Brown, and Dartmouth.</p>
<p>In terms of strength of individual departments, Berkeley kills Penn, Duke, Columbia, Brown, and Dartmouth.
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</p>
<p>I agree this topic is overdebated. Yet, I will say this. Thats one factor that determines the strength of a school, not the end all be all. Also I highly doubt that Berkeley kills any of these schools in individual department. It may be stronger in some and weaker in some, but I doubt it "kills" them. v</p>
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Thats one factor that determines the strength of a school
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</p>
<p>Yet you spout the same drivel over and over again:</p>
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Yes Berkeley wasn't there, since the strength of its student body is not up to the level of these schools
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</p>
<p>Seems a little hypocritical to say that the strength of the academic departments isn't the "end all be all."</p>
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It may be stronger in some and weaker in some, but I doubt it "kills" them. v
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</p>
<p>Just for convenience (you can search the forum for Gourman rankings, as well as others, though they largely echo these):</p>
<p>NRC</a> Rankings in Each of 41 Areas</p>
<p>In virtually every single discipline, Berkeley is ranked in the top 10. Many of the schools mentioned don't make top 20, top 30, or top 50, or top 100, in certain disciplines. Some aren't ranked at all.</p>
<p>I'd say Berkeley "kills" them in those areas.</p>
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[quote]
</p>
<p>Quote:
Thats one factor that determines the strength of a school
Yet you spout the same drivel over and over again
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</p>
<p>looks whos talking, I almost never see you add meaningfully to a discussion.</p>
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I guess you really can't argue with someone who believes he's more knowledgeable (superior) than the presidents, provost and deans of over 2,000 universities all over the United States.
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</p>
<p>Hawkette and others have already proved that PA is not an end all be all score....and there are numerous reasons for this. Yet, if you want to go by rankings, the most followed one puts Berkeley at 25.</p>
<p>"Yet, if you want to go by rankings, the most followed one puts Berkeley at 25"</p>
<p>No. 21 to be exact.</p>
<p>Gotta love the Cornell=Brown=Columbia=LSU part of the Post 1268 link.</p>
<p>Take THAT, Ivy snobs.</p>
<p>Wow. I know this is an older thread, but I just read through it and kinda found some of the posts here ridiculous.</p>
<p>I will break down the lists in two ways: Prestige Among Educated People and Prestige Amongst People OVERALL.</p>
<p>1st: Prestige Among Educated People:
1) Harvard *****and I will add U Penn: Wharton, because it is of a class of it's own compared to the rest of U Penn...
1) Stanford
1) Princeton
1) Yale
5) MIT
5) UC Berkeley
7) Columbia
7) Johns Hopkins
9) U Penn
9) Cornell
11) U of Chicago
11) Duke
13) Caltech
13) Brown
13) Northwestern
16 (but deserves a mention)) Dartmouth</p>
<p>Honorable Mention:
Michigan
WUSTL
NYU
Emory
Georgetown
Rice
UCLA
UVA</p>
<p>Now, you'll notice that Brown and Dartmouth and Caltech seem to have placed lower than expected, but that is not necessarily any bias or the case at all. The fact of the matter is, Brown and Dartmouth are tiny schools ala Amherst or Williams, who derive most of their prestige from the fact that they are ivy league. Most Educated people I know would respect a degree from Columbia or Hopkins much more so than a degree from Brown or Dartmouth. As for Caltech, it is known as a sciency MIT-esque school, but has little of the clout and has really only been gaining steam much more recently (in the past few decades), and beyond math, science, tech, etc, most people doubt what little there is else to offer. As for Duke, Duke is not really that well regarded for its academics. It's a fantastic school, but derives most of its popularity from its sports enthusiasts. It is still well regarded, but to most people in the know how, it is not as highly regarded as US news would like you to think.</p>
<p>Amongst Normal People: Name Recognition accorded with regard with high academics.</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>U Penn</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
</ol>
<p>Again, there are other great schools, but some of these names, like Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Johns Hopkins, U Penn, Columbia, Cornell, and Berkeley have been HIGHLY regarded for ages. Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford for just about anything, Yale for Law, MIT for tech, Johns Hopkins for medicine and international relations, U Penn for business, Columbia for Law, Economics, and Humanities, Cornell for Engineering, and Berkeley for technology.</p>
<p>NYU, Georgetown, Northwestern, and UCLA are really new comers in comparison to these more historically favorites. </p>
<p>Once again, 90% of normal people don't really care if you say you graduated from WUSTL, Brown, or Dartmouth. They are great schools, but most of the time, people rely moreso on familiar graduate programs, etc. in recognizing name brand schools.</p>
<p>It definitely differs per region, but as a collective whole, this is most likely how the list would look :)</p>
<p>^Berkeley has not been highly regarded outside of california for ages. If you step off the west coast, you would be hard pressed to find ANYBODY who would rank Cal as prestigious as Northwestern, Georgetown, Brown, Dartmouth, and even Wash U among those who have heard of it. </p>
<p>Most people rank Cal on the same level as Michigan and probably a little below UVA. </p>
<p>The only reason Cal is even in this discussion is because California is so heavily overrepresented on CC</p>
<p>^ That may be true in your area, but overall, Berkeley is well known for producing a lot of brilliant people. I've lived in along both the east coast and in the midwest, and I know that Berkeley is very highly regarded for its academics. Maybe not so much to normal people then. I guess I could probably replace Berkeley in the normal list with something else.</p>
<p>I agree with Post #1289. Impressions vary by region. The Top 6 schools are clear regardless of regional preferences/bias/reputation.</p>
<p>1) Harvard
2) Wharton School (Penn)
3) MIT
4) Stanford
5) Yale
6) Princeton</p>
<p>7) Northwestern
8) Chicago
9) Berkeley (UCal)
10) Duke
11) Notre Dame
12) UCLA
13) Cornell
14) Columbia
15) Georgetown/ Penn
16) NYU
17) Michigan
18) Johns Hopkins
19) Vanderbilt/ Rice
20) Wisconsin</p>
<p>Ranking the prestige of LACs is much more limiting & actually may start with two LAC-like universities.</p>
<p>1) Dartmouth College
2) Brown University
3) Amherst College
4) Bowdoin College
5) Williams College
6) USMA-West Point
7) USNA- Annapolis
8) Wellesley College (actually could be #1)
9) Swarthmore College (even though it is the most intellectual, it just isn't as well known)
10) Middlebury College
11) Pomona College
12) Vassar College
13) Colgate University
14) Smith College
15) Washington & Lee University (because it sounds presidential)</p>
<p>4) Bowdoin -- I would guess that even on THIS BB most people have never heard of Bowdoin... it doesn't even make the list.</p>
<p>coldwind, some of the schools on your list, such as notre dame, have little to no recognition outside of their respective surrounding regions.</p>
<p>As a whole, Northwestern, Chicago, Notre Dame, UCLA, NYU, and Michigan elicit less positive impressions than Johns Hopkins would anywhere across the country.</p>
<p>Bowdoin is not better known than Swarthmore, Williams, or Middlebury, unless of course you're asking people in Portland, ME.</p>
<p>A lot of the LACs aren't know very extensively outside of the geographic region in which they are located.
most people think colgate is just a toothpaste company
williams....lots of people especially out on the west coast have never heard of it...and the same goes for Pomona on the east coast. They are both amazing schools that are all very very highly regarded within the academic worldjust not well known in the everyday world </p>
<p>im not saying that Bowdoin is super well known....but being prestigious isn't just abuot being well known. It is about getting respect and admiration. I think that many of this schools get that especially from within the immediate surrounding areas. So OVERALLLL
i think that it is very hard to rank the prestige of the LACs for that reason. I think that all of the schools that are ranked top 10 in the world news report definitely have a high level of prestige.</p>
<p>Well, it's my list & I'm sticking to it! Post #1295: I disagree. The Admissions Director for Princeton University was hired away from Bowdoin College. Bowdoin is very well respected in the Northeastern US & has an even better reputation with the elite grad schools. Northwestern & Chicago are very prestigious in several areas of the US, but not as much in New England due to the Ivy prescence. As far as endowment & SAT scores, Northwestern beats four of the Ivies. also Northwestern's & Chicago's student/faculty ratios are among the Top 10 in the nation. Chicago & Northwestern's law & MBA schools are outstanding, but the undergraduate programs are superb. NYU is known worldwide simply because of its name, but deserves tremendous respect for its business school, theatre/drama dept. & law & business schools. Notre Dame is huge in the US; that's why they refuse to join any athletic conferences so they can keep all the money.</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>CalTech</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>UPenn</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Chicago</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Swarthmore</li>
</ol>