<p>joker:
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but in the case of ND vs. UCLA or ND vs. Wisc, it certainly does. those two schools pride themselves on research, which is more important for grad school. Meanwhile for ug, those two publics have massive class sizes, lots of TA's, teachers focused more on research, lack of small, seminar classes, lack of personal avising and attention, which is so critical at the ug level.
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Depends on what major. Berkeley has the #3 undergrad engineering program in the country. Haas undergrad is EASILY more renowned that ND Mendoza. Same with Michigan Ross. In fact, 90% of Michigan's undergrad programs were ranked among the top-20 in the country.</p>
<p>Research is not "much more important for grad school" if you're a pre-med, engineering, chem, bio, biochem, or neuroscience major. Research is what gets you INTO grad school (at least the good ones).</p>
<p>Now, if you're an English major, that might be a different story. Then again, Berkeley also has one of the top-5 ranked undergrad English depts. in the country.</p>
<p>Same goes for ND vs UCLA. UCLA has BY FAR one of the best premed and psych programs in the country for undergrads.</p>
<p>I take it you don't have much experience with large schools; I applied to 11 universities including ND and BC, and I can tell you that I received a MUCH more personal experience with the Michigan and Wisconsin advisers, faculty and students than I did with ND or BC. Both of those schools had regional advisers regularly call me several times, inquiring about my senior year; at Michigan, I met with 2 advisers in one day, and met both a Stats and Geology professor in the same hour.</p>
<p>UCLA has fiat lux and cluster classes, which allow undergrads to get credits/units for small seminars ranging on things from '70s music culture to the Civil Rights Movement. With their honors program, you get special advisers and priority scheduling; same with the alumni scholars club.</p>
<p>As for why ND isn't ranked higher on people's list: perhaps their famously political approach to admissions made people question whether they were really attracting the best students possible; Maybe they simply felt the caliber of research/intellectual promise was higher at UCLA and other schools (eg Michigan) because of this. Or, perhaps the religious aspect has too much of a presence in some people's minds, eliminating potentially useful resources/research because of it (and I'm Catholic, so don't even start with the "it's not a bad thing" thing. For some people, it is). I'm sure many, many will disagree, and that's fine. ND is an amazing school. But it's not the only amazing school.</p>
<p>SO, in the future I suggest you don't make assumptions about specific universities unless you know them to be absolutely true.</p>
<p>Token: Berkeley OOS fees are virtually equal to many of the private universities you listed (many of which, from personal experience, don't give great financial aid). In fact, a majority of the schools you mentioned are MORE expensive than Berkeley OOS! A student paying 50k per year for Harvard could most certainly pay 44k per year to attend Berkeley, if they so choose (and, this is assuming they aren't under Harvard's tuition-cap plan). In fact, Georgetown is ~8-10k per year more than Berkeley OOS! But, you are entitled to your opinions, however...interesting they may be...and I will respect them!</p>
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The California view of the world is not the only view out there
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Haha no kidding.</p>