Top of the class vs. bottom of the class at a less competitive school . .

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
1

A rule of thumb that I have believed in is that children are “happier” when they are working hard and “excelling” as determined by being in the top 1/3 of their class. Here is the rub. At every school at every level of rigor, mathematically someone has to be in the “bottom.” My concern always has been the morale of the student in the bottom 20%. In my experience, they get the feeling (or are told directly) that there is something wrong with them and repeatedly given advice as to how they can improve, etc.

As an aside. . I recall a situation that occurred to me in college. I was in Honors Chemistry as a freshman. It was a small class, consisting of about 10 of us. Into the Spring term, several students decided to leave and go to “regular.” The professor (who clearly wasn’t a math whiz) called me into her office. She was very concerned because in the fall I had been in the “top” half of the class and now I had dropped to the “bottom” half. Nothing had changed in my performance but from her perspective I was slacking . . You get the point.

As I begin our school search, I have purposefully chosen to look at more “green light” schools than “reaches” based on this philosophy and am pleased that we feel that all of the schools are going to have the intellectual rigor that we hope for. Yet, this seems contrary to the philosophy of going to the most competitive/most rigorous/toughest school you can get in to.

So . . how do you other parents view this issue?

This also of course applies when determining whether a child should stay in the TOP of regular math for example or move to what might be the BOTTOM of advanced. . .

2

Just like the size of school choice, this is a personal choice and it depends on the student and on the situation/age even for the same student.
Some flourish in praises and encouragement while others want challenges and don’t mind toughing it out.

3

There is no magic wand to get kids into top colleges. Just too many variables. Live life to the fullest in a good way.

4

Academics aren’t everything. Kids can contribute to the school community in many ways and be appreciated for their contributions.

5

As many of us may have already read, there is an interesting (and very popular) book written by Malcom Gladwell titled ‘David and Goliath.’ You will get an interesting idea on how students at top college (Harvard) and second-tier college performed long-term. I guess this is a rather extreme illustration but made a strong point.

6

I agree twinsmamma. I think for a secure child it would be fine either way. I ask the question unrelated to college admissions more simply to the students experience and morale. When we were just at The Gunnery our tour guide told us that the current headmaster has initiated a system in which students are scored and acknowledged on many different dimensions including their comminityThis system sounded great and I applaud these efforts.

7

Chemistry can be brutal!
For a parent, it was pretty tough for me to watch D struggle entire semester for only about 80% mastery of materials and to barely get a B in her chemistry class. By struggling I mean countless 1~2am nights and weekends religiously devoted. She learned a lot. But I wouldn’t want her to have that kinds of anxiety, disappointment and self doubt year after year.
That’s when she was in the top 1/3 of her class. I don’t even want to think about it if she wasn’t.

8

I’ve got a new advisee this year who transferred in from one of the “top 5” boarding schools. In our second-tier school (I’d loosely rank it somewhere in the #30–#15 range) this kid is still in the bottom 50% of his new class. On the bright side, he’s much happier socially, and is developing better study skills. He likes the culture and attitude better here. We are not a school where kids are competitive about academics except in the honors classes, and even there, it’s mild. I’m not so foolish as to claim that this anecdote is anything more than an anecdote, but I want to caution anyone who is reading this (mostly the students) from believing that the kids at the bottom of the highest ranked schools will easily conquer schools that are only slightly lower ranked.

The kids in the bottom 20% here experience the school based on their own individual personalities, but more than anything, I hear them talking in terms of parental expectations. There are kids at the bottom whose parents tell them “we love you and want you to work hard and be honest about doing your best” and there are kids at the top who believe/are told their parents are still disappointed in them for not being perfect. (The opposites of those situations also exist.)

At least from this boarding school teacher’s perspective, parents have a huge influence over their children’ attitudes towards their school work, and how much/little their grades and rank matter in connection to their work ethic and experience of learning.

Find the school culture that works for you.

9

Good points all. I think one issue is is how honest a school is about its culture. In the end, it is often the attitudes of individual teachers that make or break a student’s morale. I read report cards from many schools for children I see professionally. (I am a child psychiatrist and therapist). Many students who are actually working hard are continually told to apply more effort or to improve in many areas. Parents of course do not want to necessarily hear–your C student is doing as well as can be expected! Yet, I see students who are forced to drop out of extracurriculars and instead go to tutors after school daily. Sometimes that is the right move. Other times, once a student moves to another school where she/he is given a boost in self-confidence, work-effort and accomplishments increase. For me, co-curriculars are at least as important as academic subjects as much of the time they will translate into lifelong passions. I agree with all that there is no right answer here. I am more interested in people’s individual experiences. As my children so far have gone to day schools, I can’t comment on the BS experience. For my daughter, however for example, moving to a more developmentally appropriate high school (she moved from a Top 5 school to a Top 10 school as per “best schools rating” so whatever) made all the difference in the world. She went from being a miserable A student with 3 hours of sleep who was intimidated in the classroom to an A student who looked forward to school. It all had to do with the school’s expectations and approach as well as the attitudes of the students and presumably their parents. (The second school was also a girls school and that made a world of difference). I guess this is off the big fish/little fish issue, but to me, early in the process, trying to figure out what actually happens once a student is in the school is critical. So–for example, Gunnery’s new approach indicates to me that they care about student morale at least as much as college placement. .

10

Off topic but sort of on topic…Parents, please make your kids go to bed! They will do better in all ways with less studying and more sleep. The average teen needs 9 hours of sleep per night. Yes, 9 hours. OK, climbing off my soapbox now. Save the rotten tomatoes for another use.

11

@twinsmama, I wish I could. But she has finals and she wants to be prepared. At least it will be done in just two days and she can make up all her sleeps.

12

@jwalche , You NEVER make up the sleep. I’m still working on sleep I missed in the 80s. :slight_smile:

13

twinsmama you are very right. Unfortunately, at the tippy-top-tier school my D attended in 9th grade that was not encouraged. Her advisor told me at a conference that she appeared dazed at school at times. I told her that I felt that was due to her getting 3 hours of sleep a night. Her response: This is . . (school X). . she will have to get used to that. They had written work in every subject every day so there wasn’t an option to blow off a subject. It was truly inhumane. (And of course it was fine for some kids who are very efficient rapid workers–just not mine).

14

Please consider allowing your child to drive the process. Are you certain that she feels the exact same way you do? I am not even clear that the “we” includes your child. Maybe it means you and your spouse. Or you and a private GC.

“The” philosophy? Whose philosophy?

15

So . .

My son is 12 1/2 and in 7th grade. I agree that this is his process and his wishes/needs are critical. The boarding school consultant meets with him 1:1 to help him to articulate who he is and what he wants in his boarding school experience. So I/we/he . . All of us are working together here. We hope that through this process (visiting schools, meeting with the consultant, etc) by April of 2017 he will feel very comfortable with articulating what school is right for him. In the meantime, I find great value in hearing about other parents’ experiences on this site.

16

@sadieshadow , that is indeed inhumane. BTW, have you looked into Mercersburg? One of the (many) things I love about the school is that they are very attentive to the developmental needs of adolescents. The school day starts late to accommodate the typical late-to-bed, late-to-rise teen sleep pattern.

17

Absolutely. Mercersburg was on the list suggested by our counselor. It is a bit far for our family but it is still in consideratin . . Thanks.

18

I think for me I would not sign a kid up for a school at which I believed at the outset he/she would end up in the bottom 20%. I don’t think a degree from Star School #1 would make up for the experience of always being the weakest student. In days of old, when prep school students put their names down for colleges on actual lists, one might say the education provided by Star School #1 justified any experience. ( ln days of old, I gather students were often registered at birth, which would lead to a degree of heterogeneity in the student body.)

I think we live up to or down to expectations. Being a big fish in a small pond can be a better experience than being a minnow in the ocean. One absolute requirement for us is that our children are able to “find their people” among the student body. It doesn’t mean you have to love everyone. It does mean that you have to be able to find some friends. I don’t think anything makes up for misery.

I was thinking recently of how quickly time seems to pass now, and how slowly it passed in my teens. For a teenager, four years of misery can set the stage for adulthood. I read Prep. The protagonist struck me as a deeply unhappy person. I wonder if that reflects the author’s experience at boarding school?

On an absolute level, the top 50+ boarding schools offer more to smart kids than their local schools. I find it ungracious of parents (or alums) to get into fights over which school(s) constitute the “tippy top.” I’ve met many really successful people in my life. Very few were top students in middle school. Many had to overcome challenges. High school is a time to learn and to grow. At adulthood, we continue to cherish our children, not their grade point averages. A recent obituary of a young person which listed GPA made me sad and thoughtful.

To balance that out, there are people who do better when the material is more challenging. When the material covered is too easy, they zone out and do worse. So it might not be a choice between Cs in the more demanding and As in the less demanding. It could be a choice between Cs everywhere. In which case, a parent really needs to suss out when a school might decide to part ways with a student. (Probably best done at revisits. I think it would be really hard to say, I think my child will be a C student. How low does the GPA have to go before he gets kicked out?)

If it’s a Cs everywhere situation, then I think there needs to be an appraisal of the overall experience. 1) In Star School #1, you will have to work every free moment to be able to stay enrolled. Your courses will be interesting, but you will not do well in college placement, in large part because you will not be able to take part in extracurricular activities. It will be grueling. 2) In Happy School #2, you will have more time to explore extracurriculars. Your recommendations will be better, because you can play a larger role in the community. You might be bored in class. You will have to work hard to overcome your tendency to zone out. You might be more likely to become a school leader.

So it depends. It’s also good to ask about different levels of challenge available. Not everyone takes honors in every class.

I would only choose a school which expects 3 hours of sleep from its students for a student who was wildly off the scale in intelligence and energy. For a bright student with the potential to attend the most selective colleges at the end of high school, I would not choose such a school. It is possible to burn out. High school should not be a death march. No one does their best work under sleep deprivation. Copious research shows how harmful a lack of sleep is to short and long term learning. I would really worry about students learning precisely the wrong lessons as to how to handle an academic schedule.

19

Mine is managing to get about 8 hours of sleep a night. He is very efficient with his work and balances school work (with good grades), clubs and sports (life sports - not a varsity athlete which can take a lot of time). Recently the head of school had a sleep contest to promote sleep awareness so they are trying in some ways.

20

@twinsmama, I think she does, with her 16 hours sleeps. Anyway, it’s just one more day.
@sadieshadow, all kids will eventually succumb. It’s matter of how much challenges or overchallenges they take. It’s hard to find the sweet spot because it seems much more doable in the beginning of a semester. But eventually small things you didn’t fully understood in Chemistry come back with even harder concepts built on the top, essays you have already written come back to be rewritten when you also have new longer essays to write. And your finals start to tick tock. My daughter ended up canceling all her friends gatherings and rock climbing practices during the last three weeks. (not suggested by me)