Top private research universities - Who wins competition for students in each state?

College Search & Selection
41

<p>Stanford’s win-loss record (CA)</p>

<p>Stanford University 2.2
Harvard University 19.2</p>

<p>Stanford University 51.9
California Institute of Technology 35.8</p>

<p>Stanford University 4.1
Yale University 18</p>

<p>Stanford University 8.4
Georgetown University 10.9</p>

<p>Stanford University 6.8
Emory University 4.8</p>

<p>Stanford University 4.1
University of Chicago 9.3</p>

<p>Stanford University 4.1
Northwestern University 11.3</p>

<p>Stanford University 5.6
University of Notre Dame 8.4</p>

<p>Stanford University 6.6
Johns Hopkins University 10.8</p>

<p>Stanford University 2.2
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 14.3</p>

<p>Stanford University 5.6
Washington University in St Louis 9</p>

<p>Stanford University 1.6
Dartmouth College 10</p>

<p>Stanford University 2.7
Princeton University 16</p>

<p>Stanford University 3.0
Columbia University in the City of New York 12.8</p>

<p>Stanford University 3.0
Cornell University 9.1</p>

<p>Stanford University 6.1
Duke University 8.3</p>

<p>Stanford University 2.8
Carnegie Mellon University 7</p>

<p>Stanford University 2.8
University of Pennsylvania 10.6</p>

<p>Stanford University 1.2
Brown University 15.2</p>

<p>Stanford University 4.9
Vanderbilt University 3.2</p>

<p>Stanford University 11.9
Rice University 6.4</p>

42

<p>svalbardlutefisk-
Stanford’s CA percent is tainted by the fact that Stanford competes for CA students with the public schools in CA, the fabulous UC system. Harvard’s MA percent is versus the U Mass system. So, when you take the percent of in-state at a private you are always working against the public schools but not so for the OOS percent.</p>

<p>Seems like that might be a problem.</p>

43

<p>

</p>

<p>Agree. Although it should be said that if there is one school on the upswing in terms of recent popularity, it’d be Stanford. Plus with the increasing importance of technology / Silicon Valley vis a vis the economy, it will be interesting to see how those numbers shake out in about 5-10 years.</p>

44

<p>Cornell’s win-loss record (NY)</p>

<p>Cornell University 8.8
Harvard University 10.5</p>

<p>Cornell University 9.1
California Institute of Technology 4.6</p>

<p>Cornell University 12.4
Yale University 10.3</p>

<p>Cornell University 12.9
Georgetown University 9.8</p>

<p>Cornell University 4.4
Emory University 6.3</p>

<p>Cornell University 4.2
University of Chicago 7.1</p>

<p>Cornell University 4.2
Northwestern University 4.1</p>

<p>Cornell University 2.9
University of Notre Dame 4.2</p>

<p>Cornell University 12.8
Johns Hopkins University 10.1</p>

<p>Cornell University 8.8
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 7.4</p>

<p>Cornell University 1.7
Washington University in St Louis 4.9</p>

<p>Cornell University 6.1
Dartmouth College 12.3</p>

<p>Cornell University 14
Princeton University 10.1</p>

<p>Cornell University 23.5
Columbia University in the City of New York 19.3</p>

<p>Cornell University 6.3
Duke University 6.1</p>

<p>Cornell University 12.5
Carnegie Mellon University 9.7</p>

<p>Cornell University 12.5
University of Pennsylvania 9.2</p>

<p>Cornell University 7.3
Brown University 12.1</p>

<p>Cornell University 2.9
Vanderbilt University 5.3</p>

<p>Cornell University 4.1
Rice University 2.7</p>

<p>Cornell University 9.1
Stanford University 3</p>

45

<p>

OK, but on the other hand, Harvard’s is just as much tainted by competition against a high density of local privates that offer merit scholarships to students of Harvard caliber.
But let’s assume for a second that this problem only affects Stanford. In what manner would the effect occur? The UCs would reduce the number of CA students at Stanford. If the public university systems were equivalent in MA and CA, you would expect to see a comparatively greater number of CA students at Stanford than you see now. If we plug this in to the math I suggested, with your numbers:</p>

<p>Stanford MA / Harvard MA remains 1.3%/13% = .1
Harvard CA / Stanford CA is now 15%/ something larger than 41% = something smaller than .37.</p>

<p>So accounting for this effect would only make Stanford closer to Harvard in attractiveness. </p>

<p>I agree with all those who say Stanford is more regional than Harvard (and even Yale, Princeton, etc). But I really have trouble buying that it is more regional than Georgetown, Chicago, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, CMU, UPenn and Brown, as your numbers seem to imply, particularly to the extent that they imply.</p>

46

<p>collegehelp:</p>

<p>You have devised a most diabolical puzzle; I’ve blown a good part of the morning trying to figure out how to play with it. </p>

<p>I’ve been constructing my own tables to look at the win-loss, as you put it, for the same five universities in five different states, including CA. I too wonder if it’s accurate or fair to compare CA to RI, for example, given the differences in the size of the state and the draw of the public universities (which would reduce the proportion of students from the state attending private universities.)</p>

<p>Is it more fair to compare the universities only irt states with similar size populations? </p>

<p>Would it be more fair to compare the private universities “score” only comparing states that have equally strong public universities?</p>

<p>This has been quite the brain teaser for me.</p>

47

<p>jazzymom-
I love your choice of words: “diabolical puzzle”, “brain teaser”. It certainly is those things. It has been a minor obsession for me for the last few days.</p>

<p>I think dividing by the number of freshman who enroll at private universities controls for both the size of the state and for the attractiveness of the public higher ed system.</p>

48

<p>Duke’s win-loss record (NC)</p>

<p>Duke University 5.3
Harvard University 15.2</p>

<p>Duke University 8.3
California Institute of Technology 41.6</p>

<p>Duke University 6.5
Yale University 15.3</p>

<p>Duke University 30.9
Georgetown University 17.5</p>

<p>Duke University 19.9
Emory University 22.1</p>

<p>Duke University 5.5
University of Chicago 17.7</p>

<p>Duke University 5.5
Northwestern University 5.4</p>

<p>Duke University 7.8
University of Notre Dame 8.7</p>

<p>Duke University 12.6
Johns Hopkins University 10.2</p>

<p>Duke University 5.3
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 12.2</p>

<p>Duke University 4.8
Washington University in St Louis 6.9</p>

<p>Duke University 3.1
Dartmouth College 9.2</p>

<p>Duke University 6.7
Princeton University 10</p>

<p>Duke University 6.1
Columbia University in the City of New York 12.3</p>

<p>Duke University 6.1
Cornell University 6.3</p>

<p>Duke University 9.0
Carnegie Mellon University 6.3</p>

<p>Duke University 9.0
University of Pennsylvania 8.6</p>

<p>Duke University 4.6
Brown University 5.3</p>

<p>Duke University 13.7
Vanderbilt University 23.1</p>

<p>Duke University 10.2
Rice University 4.7</p>

<p>Duke University 8.3
Stanford University 6.1</p>

49

<p>Northwestern win-loss record (IL)</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.5
Harvard University 5.4</p>

<p>Northwestern University 11.3
California Institute of Technology 6.4</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.8
Yale University 8.1</p>

<p>Northwestern University 9.7
Georgetown University 7.1</p>

<p>Northwestern University 8.7
Emory University 5.4</p>

<p>Northwestern University 41.7
University of Chicago 34.3</p>

<p>Northwestern University 25.7
University of Notre Dame 19.3</p>

<p>Northwestern University 8.9
Johns Hopkins University 3.5</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.5
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.3</p>

<p>Northwestern University 10.2
Washington University in St Louis 21.8</p>

<p>Northwestern University 3.8
Dartmouth College 5.8</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.9
Princeton University 3.2</p>

<p>Northwestern University 4.1
Columbia University in the City of New York 3.9</p>

<p>Northwestern University 4.1
Cornell University 4.2</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.4
Duke University 5.5</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.8
Carnegie Mellon University 3.5</p>

<p>Northwestern University 5.8
University of Pennsylvania 3.1</p>

<p>Northwestern University 3.8
Brown University 4.4</p>

<p>Northwestern University 6.7
Vanderbilt University 8.0</p>

<p>Northwestern University 8.0
Rice University 3.4</p>

<p>Northwestern University 11.3
Stanford University 4.1</p>

50

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology win-loss record (MA)</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 13.0
Harvard University 21.1</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 6.7
Yale University 8.3</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 18.7
Georgetown University 10.9</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 6.7
Emory University 5.7</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.3
University of Chicago 6.9</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.3
Northwestern University 5.5</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 9.2
University of Notre Dame 3.8</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 12.4
Johns Hopkins University 6.2</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 7.4
Washington University in St Louis 5.1</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 19.4
Dartmouth College 13.2</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.6
Princeton University 6</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 7.4
Columbia University in the City of New York 8.9</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 7.4
Cornell University 8.8</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 12.2
Duke University 5.3</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.4
Carnegie Mellon University 6.2</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.4
University of Pennsylvania 4.7</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.8
Brown University 19</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 9.2
Vanderbilt University 4</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 12.8
Rice University 1.6</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 14.3
Stanford University 2.2</p>

51

<p>This is simply a measure of relative prestige, among a few other things (such as the # students going to publics/privates, etc.).</p>

52

<p>kyledavid80-
I think you are mostly correct but there are some interesting surprises, such as Stanford’s relatively weak showing in the east. However, maybe this metric is correct and popular impressions are not. I also think schools with major engineering programs have an advantage over non-engineering schools by this metric. They appeal to the segment of engineering students.</p>

53

<p>California’s a huge state and spans most of the West coast; it’s easy to draw 250 students from there. Massachusetts is a tiny part of the East coast; it’s hard to draw as many from there.</p>

54

<p>Collegehelp,</p>

<p>Your method is interesting. Stanford sucks! right?</p>

<p>Using your metric and your frequently quoted GOURMAN RANKING, you may never understand why Stanford beats every other university in US in winning the national medal of science, the Nobel prize in physics (#1 in the world), and the Turing award (#1 in the world). No matter how bad Stanford looks in your metric. It is Stanford (faculty and alumni) that has played the leading role in creating modern technologies, including critical inventions such as </p>

<p>internet (ethernet, internet TCP/IP protocol, YAHOO, GOOGLE, DSL, 56k modem, SUN workstation, internet router)
laser (masor, the world’s 1st working laser, carbon dioxide laser)
radar (klystron- the foundation of radar, over the horizon radar)
transistor
microprocessor
GPS
Spy satelite
artificial intelligience (LISP, 1st expert system, 1st robot cart, 1st robot arm, and the driverless car winning 2005 DARPA challenge)
Gene slicing
DNA mico-array
Genechip.</p>

<p>For your information, Stanford has 18 Nobel prize winners in its current staff, more than any other universities in the world. In US, Stanford has the 2nd most faculty members selected into national academy of sciences, only behind Harvard.</p>

<p>Just one question for you, how many univeristies ranked higher in your metric can compete against Stanford according to the metrics I mentioned?</p>

55

<p>datalook-
Why do you think Stanford enrolls so few students from MA? I don’t think the metric I invented suggests that Stanford sucks. It is strictly an indicator of the student flow between two university locations. Everybody knows that Stanford doesn’t suck. But, how do you explain the high percentage of Californians relative to other states if it is truly a national university. I just put the information out there. I didn’t make it up.</p>

56

<p>datalook, though I have been active on this thread with my doubts about collegehelp’s methodology, your attack on his results is irrelevant. He is not trying to measure how good a university Stanford is, but simply how successful it (and many other universities) are at recruiting a geographically diverse range of students. It is an interesting (though I believe flawed) look at student preferences, but it is not, nor does it purport to be, a ranking of universities. To attack it on those terms seems unfair.</p>

57

<p>Stanford is one of the greatest universities in the world. That’s what makes the results so puzzling and intriguing.</p>

58

<p>It’s an unfair comparison, though. Harvard draws 258 students from a huge state; Stanford draws 22 from a tiny state. You’d need to see how Stanford draws from (most of) the East coast. Thus, it might be better to compare by region rather than state.</p>

59

<p>datalook: </p>

<p>Calm down and realize that Stanford’s administration has seen figures in their enrollment and admission data analysis that is telling them something somewhat similar to what collegehelp has found.</p>

<p>A year or two ago, Dean Shaw, the director of admissions, was interviewed in the campus paper about admissions trends. He stated clearly that he wanted to see Stanford reaching out and recruiting students from beyond CA. </p>

<p>“What I’m trying to accomplish is to bring a very diverse perspective from across the nation,” Shaw said. “We want students from the SE U.S., the NE, the Midwest, the SW, and foreign countries to be interested in pursuing their education at Stanford.” The context was in announcing plans to boost marketing and recruitment efforts internationally and in all areas of the U.S. </p>

<p>Stanford wants to be less CA-centric. And this was not happy news to CA parents since such a shift in emphasis obviously will make it increasingly difficult for CA students to be admitted to Stanford.</p>

60

<p>I want to point out that I adjusted for the big state/small state effect when I divided by the total number of freshmen from a state who enrolled in private research universities. The bigger the state, the more students enrolling at private unis. The number of freshmen who enroll at private unis also controls for the number of freshmen who enroll at public unis. The bigger and better the public system, the smaller the number enrolling at private unis. It also controls for the LAC enrollees. When more students from a state attend LACs, the smaller the number attending private unis. I think it is the perfect control.</p>

<p>I also divide by the size of the freshman class at the receiving uni. This adjusts for the big school/small school effect. </p>

<p>So far, I don’t think I missed anything.</p>