<p>What is so bad for Stanford to have lots of students from California? California is the bigest state. People in California (especially Silicon Valley) tend to be more creative than people in other states. If Stanford wants to stay as the world’s most creative university, recruiting a lot of California students might not be a bad idea.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, let’s not go overboard. There is a bit of the chicken or the egg here. Granted many of the early tech pioneers hailed from California – no doubt. Since the evolution of Silicon Valley from an obscure tech backwater into the epicenter of technology its become today, there is no question that they are now drawing the best creative talent from around the world – there is no doubt about that either.</p>
<p>In other words, New York City is the premier place for financiers. It draws that kind of talent from around the world. Now is there a spillover effect from having that kind of heavily concentrated mindset in one area? Certainly. No one has ever accused a NYer for not being street savvy – and if you’ve ever tried to get into a NYC cab without the proper change or short the guy on a tip, you’re likely to hear about it.</p>
<p>want to point out that I adjusted for the big state/small state effect when I divided by the total number of freshmen from a state who enrolled in private research universities. >></p>
<p>I don’t think you’re listening to what people are telling you. You are assuming that the only people who are of the caliber of attending private research universities are actually those people who do wind up attending private research universities. California has a much better state university system than Massachusetts so you are essentially ignoring those people who were private-research-uni caliber but who HAVE an option (UC system) that satisfies their desire at a lower price tag than a private research university, so they don’t need or choose to be “magnetized” outside their state. The smart Mass kid doesn’t have that same option.</p>
<p>I would also add that LAC’s still compete with private research unis, but that’s a more minor point.</p>
<p>datalook-
Why do you think Stanford enrolls so few students from MA? >></p>
<p>Because MA is a small state. Sigh.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl-
I am listening carefully to what others are saying in this thread.</p>
<p>Dividing by the number of freshmen who actually go to a private research university simultaneously adjusts for both the size of the state and for the appeal of the public university system. The net effect is that (1) if the feeder state is larger, the resulting index gets smaller and (2) if the feeder state public system is better, the resulting index gets smaller. In a large state like CA with a fantastic public system, the effects of the size of the state and the size of the public system offset each other to some extent. </p>
<p>The larger state means more students are available to private unis. The larger public system means fewer students are available to private unis. By using the number of students from the state who actually go to private unis, I am accounting for both of these two opposing factors at the same time.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt win-loss record (TN)</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 4.0
Harvard University 13.7</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 3.2
California Institute of Technology 5.4</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 4.7
Yale University 14</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 11.8
Georgetown University 5.8</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 32.3
Emory University 33.9</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 8.0
University of Chicago 12.8</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 8.0
Northwestern University 6.7</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 21.6
University of Notre Dame 11.9</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 14.4
Johns Hopkins University 7.1</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 4.0
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 9.2</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 14.0
Washington University in St Louis 22.9</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 4.9
Dartmouth College 4.2</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 4.4
Princeton University 7.5</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 5.3
Columbia University in the City of New York 5.9</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 5.3
Cornell University 2.9</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 23.1
Duke University 13.7</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 3.9
Carnegie Mellon University 4</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 3.9
University of Pennsylvania 9.9</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 3.7
Brown University 4.7</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 179.7 (strength of draw in TN)</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 16.4
Rice University 14.6</p>
<p>Vanderbilt University 3.2
Stanford University 4.9</p>
<p>I think your phraseology at the beginning…“tug of war” and “win-loss”… throws people off and sets you up for an argument that doesn’t necessarily need to be argued. It doesn’t have to be about precision. It’s just kind of interesting, like a Rubik’s Cube on paper using different university combinations. </p>
<p>Out of curiousity, what broad observations do you find interesting? I suspect the numbers are more useful where the gap is wide, rather than the near ties and close-enough comparisons. </p>
<p>If I had the time to delve into this discussion, I would explore whether what you’ve compiled gives a different, more national spin to “preference” than the ultra-prestige focused attitude seen in the NE. For instance, maybe in places where Harvard seems to tie with lesser ranked unis, there is some perception that the Ivies are stuck-up and so another choice is made. (Note: I am not calling Ivy students snooty; I am wondering if the numbers might reflect that that attitude is out there, particularly among students who haven’t visited.)</p>
<p>Columbia University win-loss record (NY)</p>
<p>Columbia University 8.9
Harvard University 10.5</p>
<p>Columbia University 12.8
California Institute of Technology 4.6</p>
<p>Columbia University 6.7
Yale University 10.3</p>
<p>Columbia University 11.5
Georgetown University 9.8</p>
<p>Columbia University 7.0
Emory University 6.3</p>
<p>Columbia University 3.9
University of Chicago 7.1</p>
<p>Columbia University 3.9
Northwestern University 4.1</p>
<p>Columbia University 1.9
University of Notre Dame 4.2</p>
<p>Columbia University 12.5
Johns Hopkins University 10.1</p>
<p>Columbia University 8.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 7.4</p>
<p>Columbia University 1.8
Washington University in St Louis 4.9</p>
<p>Columbia University 6.7
Dartmouth College 12.3</p>
<p>Columbia University 18.2
Princeton University 10.1</p>
<p>Columbia University in the City of New York 19.3</p>
<p>Columbia University 19.3
Cornell University 23.5</p>
<p>Columbia University 12.3
Duke University 6.1</p>
<p>Columbia University 9.0
Carnegie Mellon University 9.7</p>
<p>Columbia University 9.0
University of Pennsylvania 9.2</p>
<p>Columbia University 4.3
Brown University 12.1</p>
<p>Columbia University 5.9
Vanderbilt University 5.3</p>
<p>Columbia University 5.4
Rice University 2.7</p>
<p>Columbia University 12.8
Stanford University 3</p>
<p>Washington University in St. Louis win-loss record (MO)</p>
<p>Washington University 5.1
Harvard University 5.1</p>
<p>Washington University 9.0
California Institute of Technology 8.7</p>
<p>Washington University 9.2
Yale University 6.1</p>
<p>Washington University 9.1
Georgetown University 5.8</p>
<p>Washington University 10.7
Emory University 7.8</p>
<p>Washington University 21.8
University of Chicago 5.9</p>
<p>Washington University 21.8
Northwestern University 10.2</p>
<p>Washington University 21.7
University of Notre Dame 15.2</p>
<p>Washington University 21.7
Johns Hopkins University 5.2</p>
<p>Washington University 5.1
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 7.4</p>
<p>Washington University in St Louis 52.1</p>
<p>Washington University 4.4
Dartmouth College 5.1</p>
<p>Washington University 4.6
Princeton University 4</p>
<p>Washington University 4.9
Columbia University in the City of New York 1.8</p>
<p>Washington University 4.9
Cornell University 1.7</p>
<p>Washington University 6.9
Duke University 4.8</p>
<p>Washington University 3.9
Carnegie Mellon University 2.6</p>
<p>Washington University 3.9
University of Pennsylvania 3.7</p>
<p>Washington University 2.7
Brown University 4.2</p>
<p>Washington University 22.9
Vanderbilt University 14</p>
<p>Washington University 11.5
Rice University 6.9</p>
<p>Washington University 9.0
Stanford University 5.6</p>
<p>What do you think about the big state, big U effect, such as UCLA? Does it necessarily mean at poorer quality of education than an east coast LAC?</p>
<p>What has a better name? A top LAC or UCLA?</p>
<p>also, does public = bad? i’m talking everything in terms of pre-medical studies.</p>
<p>Georgetown University win-loss record (VA used as proxy for DC)</p>
<p>Georgetown University 10.9
Harvard University 11.5</p>
<p>Georgetown University 10.9
California Institute of Technology 2.8</p>
<p>Georgetown University 19.1
Yale University 9.2</p>
<p>Georgetown University 19</p>
<p>Georgetown University 11.6
Emory University 8.3</p>
<p>Georgetown University 7.1
University of Chicago 8.6</p>
<p>Georgetown University 7.1
Northwestern University 9.7</p>
<p>Georgetown University 9.2
University of Notre Dame 11</p>
<p>Georgetown University 23.5
Johns Hopkins University 17.1</p>
<p>Georgetown University 10.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 18.7</p>
<p>Georgetown University 5.8
Washington University in St Louis 9.1</p>
<p>Georgetown University 4.9
Dartmouth College 13.3</p>
<p>Georgetown University 14.5
Princeton University 32.5</p>
<p>Georgetown University 9.8
Columbia University in the City of New York 11.5</p>
<p>Georgetown University 9.8
Cornell University 12.9</p>
<p>Georgetown University 17.5
Duke University 30.9</p>
<p>Georgetown University 11.6
Carnegie Mellon University 15.3</p>
<p>Georgetown University 11.6
University of Pennsylvania 8</p>
<p>Georgetown University 11.0
Brown University 13.2</p>
<p>Georgetown University 5.8
Vanderbilt University 11.8</p>
<p>Georgetown University 6.2
Rice University 7.6</p>
<p>Georgetown University 10.9
Stanford University 8.4</p>
<p>dawritingmachine-
LACs and state universities are not necessarily better or worse, but they are very different environments. You should just decide which type of environment would feel best to you and go the the best school you can. </p>
<p>If you are a resident of CA, it would be hard to pass up the tuition discount at places like UCLA and Berkeley. </p>
<p>You don’t have to go to the east coast to find a great LAC. Pomona is an LAC in CA that is great for bio.</p>
<p>About California students goin to publics, yeah that makes for a bad comparison of things on this thread, but ide say if all states were split up, and then compared with every other country university system, California would win with the best schools in the world overall.</p>
<p>All the UCs are phenomenal, even merced (in comparison to many schools…plus berkeley is arguably the best public in the world…actually nothing really compares (no public at least, unless oxbridge are public, but idunno)) Plus we have stanford, pomonas, and other top privates like USC and stuff.</p>
<p>So how are you taking into account distances? For instance, all those Californians Stanford draws from the LA basin are going about as far away from school as all those New Yorkers heading to schools in Mass. Is there some way to factor in pure distance, or the number of student that could get home for the weekend? </p>
<p>I still think the schools in the North East pull most their students from the North East. Putting the dividing lines on the state borders back there would be like putting the dividing lines on the area lines here. When the UCs determine their geographic diversity they tend to divide the state into 11 districts, each about the size of your average NorthEastern state.</p>
<p>I guess I’m still trying to get my head around what useful purpose this type of comparisions will give us.</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania win-loss record ¶</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 4.7
Harvard University 5.6</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 10.6
California Institute of Technology 4.5</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 8.0
Yale University 7.2</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 8.0
Georgetown University 11.6</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 7.7
Emory University 5.1</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 3.1
University of Chicago 9.6</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 32.5
Northwestern University 5.8</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 6.2
University of Notre Dame 11.2</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 12.3
Johns Hopkins University 14.6</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 4.7
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.4</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 3.7
Washington University in St Louis 3.9</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 3.3
Dartmouth College 8</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 13.1
Princeton University 10.3</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 9.2
Columbia University in the City of New York 9</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 9.2
Cornell University 12.5</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 8.6
Duke University 9</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 32.5
Carnegie Mellon University 38.2</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 32.5</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 8.3
Brown University 8.1</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 9.9
Vanderbilt University 3.9</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 4.2
Rice University 3.2</p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania 10.6
Stanford University 2.8</p>
<p>UCDAlum82-
In the win-loss table above, each pairing is approximately equidistant, home state vs home state. Example, the draw power of Penn in TN is 9.9. The draw power of Vanderbilt in PA is 3.9.</p>
<p>Brown University win-loss record (RI)</p>
<p>Brown University 19.0
Harvard University 5.8</p>
<p>Brown University 14.9
Yale University 1.5</p>
<p>Brown University 13.2
Georgetown University 11</p>
<p>Brown University 5.7
Emory University 7</p>
<p>Brown University 4.4
University of Chicago 3.1</p>
<p>Brown University 4.4
Northwestern University 3.8</p>
<p>Brown University 4.5
University of Notre Dame 4.8</p>
<p>Brown University 10.5
Johns Hopkins University 8.9</p>
<p>Brown University 19.0
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.8</p>
<p>Brown University 4.2
Washington University in St Louis 2.7</p>
<p>Brown University 15.9
Dartmouth College 5.4</p>
<p>Brown University 8.9
Princeton University 1.6</p>
<p>Brown University 12.1
Columbia University in the City of New York 4.3</p>
<p>Brown University 12.1
Cornell University 7.3</p>
<p>Brown University 5.3
Duke University 4.6</p>
<p>Brown University 8.1
Carnegie Mellon University 10.9</p>
<p>Brown University 8.1
University of Pennsylvania 8.3</p>
<p>Brown University 66.2</p>
<p>Brown University 4.7
Vanderbilt University 3.7</p>
<p>Brown University 15.2
Stanford University 1.2</p>
<p>University of Chicago win-loss record (IL)</p>
<p>University of Chicago 6.9
Harvard University 5.4</p>
<p>University of Chicago 9.3
California Institute of Technology 6.4</p>
<p>University of Chicago 5.6
Yale University 8.1</p>
<p>University of Chicago 8.6
Georgetown University 7.1</p>
<p>University of Chicago 6.7
Emory University 5.4</p>
<p>University of Chicago 34.3</p>
<p>University of Chicago 34.3
Northwestern University 41.7</p>
<p>University of Chicago 16.8
University of Notre Dame 19.3</p>
<p>University of Chicago 9.4
Johns Hopkins University 3.5</p>
<p>University of Chicago 6.9
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.3</p>
<p>University of Chicago 5.9
Washington University in St Louis 21.8</p>
<p>University of Chicago 7.2
Dartmouth College 5.8</p>
<p>University of Chicago 5.3
Princeton University 3.2</p>
<p>University of Chicago 7.1
Columbia University in the City of New York 3.9</p>
<p>University of Chicago 7.1
Cornell University 4.2</p>
<p>University of Chicago 17.7
Duke University 5.5</p>
<p>University of Chicago 9.6
Carnegie Mellon University 3.5</p>
<p>University of Chicago 9.6
University of Pennsylvania 3.1</p>
<p>University of Chicago 3.1
Brown University 4.4</p>
<p>University of Chicago 12.8
Vanderbilt University 8</p>
<p>University of Chicago 6.4
Rice University 3.4</p>
<p>University of Chicago 9.3
Stanford University 4.1</p>
<p>So on these equidistant ones, whats the draw power of say, SF Bay area students at Chicago versus the greater Chicago area students at Stanford?</p>
<p>Or, to put it another way, whats the draw power of those within 300 miles of Stanford going to U of Chicago versus those that live within 300 miles of U of Chicago going to Stanford.</p>