<p>Smith has very large programs in all the performing arts. Music, with 18 full-time faculty plus the adjuncts, is one of the largest department, and the dance and theater departments are large as well, and serve as the center of the 5-college scene. Nonetheless, there are certain areas which they are always looking to beef up as they create new programs. The new 5-College Opera Consortium means there will be greater demand for topflight vocal students - the faculty is already in place, but they will need more top-rung folks. The expanding orchestra is, as is often the case at women's colleges, requires more horns (but definitely not woodwinds!) However, there are no performance majors.</p>
<p>Bard is already well-known as a school for musicians. But because of the new conservatory program (and unbelievable faculty list - they will leapfrog over Oberlin in a single bound, because they drew directly on the faculty of Julliard and, especially, Curtis), there is a great opportunity in the next several years to get in on the ground floor.</p>
<p>I also think is true that Williams will need to populate its new Center for Theater and Dance. Both programs have had their ups and down over the past two decades, but they are now putting big bucks into it.</p>
<p>Have a look at Bennington, Skidmore, Bard; great dance depts (hopefully not "too great," in your view) and SATs will be less a "reach" at these schools.</p>
<p>For students looking to play in a good orchestra without having to compete with a lot of music majors, I would suggest St. Olaf. My son is in the same boat. Wants to keep playing his viola in a very good orchestra, but doesn't want to major in music. He visited St. Olaf and discovered a few things. They are a school of 3000 with 2 full orchestras. All orchestra students are REQUIRED to take lessons which means the school has the teachers to support lessons for all students. The cost of lessons is included in the tuition. Their top orchestra travels internationally. They are best known for choral music but the a strong orchestra is important in a good choral program. We heard a CD from the orchestra and were very impressed. In addition, they only have about 30-40 performance majors, so there you don't have the competition that you would from a more conservatory type program. </p>
<p>Because a lot of musicians choose to apply to St. Olaf, I don't think playing will give a boost in the application, but they do have scholarships of up to $6000 that any student can audition for. Also, they have a school of education for the person who mentioned their daughter was thinking about becoming a teacher. I know that St. O's is definitely going to be on my son's list.</p>
<p>SBMom, Bard doesn't ask for test scores, which as far as I'm concerned makes them the jewel in the crown of top college prospects... if only I could convince them pack up their campus and move down the Hudson and find a place to park the college in Manhattan, my city-loving d. might be very happy with them. In any case, Bard is never going to know about those tests scores. :)</p>
<p>I'll add Skidmore and Bennington to our list of schools to consider. </p>
<p>cyclistsmom -- you put things in exactly the right terms for me when you wrote wrote If his willingness to play his horn would be an asset..... That's exactly right -- my daughter doesn't particularly want to dance at college (she figures there are plenty of off-campus opportunities for dance - as long as there is a studio where she can keep in shape there is no need at all for dance on campus) --- but she is very willing if it helps. </p>
<p>I guess my point in looking for a weaker program is that it simply isn't an "asset" to be an ambivalent dancer in a field of applicants who are dancers. Girls who dance are pretty common (while boys who dance are prized wherever they go, especially if they are reasonably proficient and strong enough to lift the girls).</p>
The music department has to be big enough and good enough to attract talented musicians of similar caliber, but not so good and big that she has to fight for a performance spot behind all the music majors.
One nice thing about dance is that it is individualized enough that it doesn't really matter if the other dancers are all that good, especially with modern dance, which is the staple of most college programs. I mean, individual dancers can do their thing, and a good choreographer can feature the strong dancers, while giving the weaker dancers easier steps, so they look good too. And dance classes really are about each person working on polishing their own technique -- a good teacher will give correction to each student at their own level.</p>
<p>Another vote here for St. Olaf. Though the choral program is very well known, the instrumental program has become very strong in the past few years, and with two orchestras is still feasible for "walk-ons." And a student that plays an instrument they need (oboe?, horn?, harp?) might get some extra consideration there.</p>
<p>Does anyone know a St Olaf's kind of school in a warm climate?? That is what we are looking for. I know this isn't considered a "top school" but U of South Carolina has 7 instrumental ensembles. Some are for the "majors" but they hold open auditions for them all. They also offer scholarships for non-majors.</p>
<p>My son is a freshman at Tufts. 99% of his high school ECs were music. He wanted to continue to perform and study music for the love of it, not to pursue it professionally. </p>
<p>Here's why I think there might be an edge in admissions for musical kids like this at Tufts:</p>
<p>Tufts has a dual degree program with New England Conservatory, and so the really serious, professional-track musicians perform with the NEC ensembles. This opens up the Tufts University music ensembles for the "regular" Tufts kids who are rather talented musicians themselves but aren't pursuing music professionally. This year my son has enrolled in the Wind Ensemble (which travels to performance venues overseas each year -- this year it was Ireland!) and played in the pit orchestra of two of Tufts' major musicals. He LOVES the music program at Tufts! He's enrolled in Music Theory for next year, will be taking private lessons and declare music his minor. BUT, he is a biochem major with his eye on medical school. </p>
<p>So, I think Tufts is a great place for talented musicians who want to continue to play for the love of it only and might actually find their musical abilities and interests might offer a "foot in the door?"</p>
<p>I had a friend apply to Carnegie Mellon with stats that were noticeably lower than the average applicant. He was, however, an accomplished musician who wrote his own music and performed locally. While he was not accepted, he was offered priority waitlist (top 100 waitlisted applicants). </p>
<p>I think that, had it not been for a significant lack of ECs, he would have been offered admission right off the bat. And as it stands (since he chose to remain on priority), he has an excellent chance of getting in.
...carnegie mellon is tricky, though, since if you choose to remain on the priority waitlist, you <em>must</em> attend if accepted.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your helpful advice. This is exactly the information that I was hoping would be on this thread! I will pass on all this great information to my son.</p>
<p>
[quote]
since if you choose to remain on the priority waitlist, you <em>must</em> attend if accepted.
[/quote]
Except for the possiblity of a lost deposit, there is really no way legally a college can compel someone to attend at any point. I realize that as a matter of honesty and following through on commitments, most people will enroll if they have promised to do so. But the problem with waitlists is timing -- its one thing if the word comes in mid-May -- quite another if the call comes in August after the airline tickets to the other college have been purchased, dorm assignments made, roommates communicating by email, etc. </p>
<p>I realize that this involves a friend of yours - not a family member - so it really doesn't matter. But I just thought that for the benefit of others reading the thread, it's important to note that there is a limit as to how much of a commitment a college can reasonably expect a student to make in a situation where the college isn't ready to make a commitment on its own. I think the idea of "priority" admission is probably more of a way for the college to get a good sense of the seriousness of individuals on the waiting list -- if they TELL the student he HAS to attend, they will weed out the people hanging on to multiple lists. But in the end, I don't think its wrong when a student honestly changes his mind after being hung out to dry for weeks or months.</p>
<p>thanks, Calmom -- I will pass that information on to him. I believe he will hear earlier than August about his final status, but it's good to know he's not locked into the school should he get off the waitlist.</p>
<p>Sometimes schools that produce a lot of music education majors will have opportunities for good, but not conservatory level musicians - these schools need to be investigated literally on a case by case basis. For example, some will have more than one level of symphonic band, but no orchestra, or only a chamber group. Another might have orchestra and band, and several levels of choral music. These schools are especially good bets for the OK, but not stellar student (they are not always the most competitive) who plays an unusual, but not rare instrument - the really good French horn or oboist or tuba or string bass. They might have way too many trumpets or saxes, but only one oboe.</p>
<p>I immediately thought of St. Olaf's - what a great opportunity for a string player who just wanted to play - and I'm glad to hear about Furman, it may be a possiblity for my son. Birmingham-Southern is a smaller LAC in this mode - known in the community for its music and theatre, nowhere close to enough music or theatre majors to fill out an orchestra.</p>
<p>This thread is incredibly helpful... I'm in a similar boat. I sing (All- State and All- Eastern, hopefully From the Top), compose, and I play the harp (locally, as I only started two years ago; I do lots of volunteering with it). I love music, and I would consider minoring in it, but I'm definitely not going into it professionally. However, I still want to perform and be very involved with music at college. Interesteddad... what is Swat's music scene like? For mini and momrath... do you think a singer/harpist/composer with my musical stats would be able to get some sort of edge? Thanks:)</p>
<p>The words you have quoted and attributed to someone else were originally written by me. Someone quoted them and you've quoted that quote. In the process--not unlike that old game telephone in which a message is whispered down the line and then compared to the original--the end result of taking my words out of context is to completely change their intended meaning. </p>
<p>I did NOT say that being a musician would get you a "foot in the door" at Stanford. My original message was posted in andi's thread about picking up the pieces and asking what went wrong. In that thread, andi vented about the athletes accepted at a couple of Ivies and said that their acceptances indicated that those schools "valued" sports more than other extracurricular interests, such as her son's music. I responded to that message and said what I had thought andison had done wrong. </p>
<p>In any event, while I hope the information posted in this thread is helpful, your interpretation of my original remarks to suggest that Stanford is a school at which being a musician would give you a "foot in the door" is a gross distortion of my original post. I DO understand that the distortion is not intentional, as you apparently never read my original post, but please, folks, don't think being a musician will get you into Stanford in and of itself.</p>
<p>Jonri, the thread that you mentioned that in was Digmedia's 'admissions disappointment' thread, not my picking up the pieces thread.</p>
<p>However, I too have heard, and from someone who has worked at Stanford that there is indeed some truth to your original thought about music being more of a hook there than at H or Y. Since H and Y have the reputations of being excellent in music, musicians are more likely to apply there than to Stanford. So Stanford is actually looking to attract musicians more than the other two. Of course it's extremely competitive and being a musician doesn't make you a shoo-in, but it would likely carry more weight than it does at H&Y.</p>
<p>Another couple of points to consider when looking for an Arts & Sciences school where you can continue to pursue music, from our own experiences:</p>
<p>Some schools, for example Rice or JHU, according to the catalog, have excellent music courses. However, their music courses are in their conservatories and they don't encourage, or in fact actively discourage, crossover between the A&S school and the conservatory.</p>
<p>The other point is a sort of catch 22. You may find a school where music will be more of a hook for you because they are trying attract more musicians. However, let's say that you are a talented violinist who would like to play in a chamber group. If there are not enough other musicians at your level, or who share the love of music enough that they are willing to devote enough time to prepare their music, you may be pretty disappointed.</p>
<p>These are just our observations- no "hard facts." Things to keep in mind on your search.</p>