<p>@Chardo, Cooper Union is far from a joke school; no one even remotely knowledgeable about engineering would think that, but I get your gist.</p>
<p>Actually, he isnât. While you might find a high cluster from a few top schools, plenty come from much lower ranked schools. Look at pages 8 and 9 of this article: <a href=âhttp://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/DigitalEditions/thealmamater2013/html5/index.html?page=1â>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/DigitalEditions/thealmamater2013/html5/index.html?page=1</a></p>
<p>I was going to send this thread to a friend, whose son is having some grade issues senior year and might only get into some âthird-tierâ schools, but honestly some of the responses are kind of offensive. The original point of the post, years ago, is true, and opinions may vary, but there are a lot of people that just should not spend the money on a top school because of the debt load.</p>
<p>@drcharismaâ He sounds just like you. Being such an exceptionally bright student, I thought youâd have known of other âeliteâ snobs. <a href=âTed Cruz, Humble Man Of The People, Refused To Study With Anyone From 'The Lesser Ivies' - Wonketteâ>http://wonkette.com/529541/ted-cruz-humble-man-of-the-people-refused-to-study-with-anyone-from-the-lesser-ivies</a></p>
<p>Oops, should have pointed out that Lockheed Martinâs CEO is a Bama grad. ;)</p>
<p>@NoVaDad99: LOLOLOL.</p>
<p>@drcharismaâ: You have a bunch of adults in this discussion (including some who attended elite universities) telling you that youâre too dismissive of schools that can help you succeed. Then you have your friends and you: teenagers who havenât actually ever had a career in anything.</p>
<p>Which group do you think has a better idea of how the world works?</p>
<p>Yes, I attended a top school and have consistently worked with those who recieved a great education at what we would laughably term lesser schools on CC. I have hired top school grads and I have hired kids right out of community college while they put themselves through undergrad. No regrets with either. </p>
<p>Search Prestigiousity on this site. Itâs a fun and silly concept.</p>
<p>Good luck to you. If you go to Pitt, make the most of it. Nobody is going to laugh at you for that. Nobody that matters anyway.</p>
<p>My humble opinion is go to the best school that you can get into and afford (and you are the only one who can define what is the best school and what you/your parents can afford.) Do NOT take out lots of student loans just for the prestige or possible connections. No one really cares where you go, especially after your first job, except you. Finally take advantage of every opportunity that the school that you do attend offers. </p>
<p>@Mom2aphysicsgeekâ Like I said, I never said that you wonât be successful at a less prestigious university, Iâm saying that you are likely to be at a disadvantage in comparison to a prestigious school graduate who is competing for the same job as you. Iâm sure your son will be very successful at Bama if he can take the best advantage of his resources.</p>
<p>@NoVADad99â I in no way look down on other people. I just call it as it is. Itâs a fact that the more prestigious school you go to, the better people will initially think of you. When people think of âHarvardâ or âPrincetonâ, they think of world leaders, CEOs, future Presidents, etc. Less prestigious schools do not have that same feeling. It follows you for the rest of your life.</p>
<p>@PurpleTitan This information also comes from my parents. My Dad is pretty high in the corporate ladder, and he says that prestigious schools can give a stepping stone. </p>
<p>@poetgirl I am not doubting the quality of the kids that come out from those institutions. Iâm sure there are many outstanding and distinguished students and alumni, as previous posters have listed. Iâm just saying that when you come out of college and go to your first job, your education will give you a stepping stone. Youâll also be able to meet many outstanding people at these institutions and form connections. These connections will also help in the long run.</p>
<p>@kjcphmom Well I donât know about that. Here in China, name recognition is everything. </p>
<p>You know what says more about you than the school you attend? How you treat and consider others who havenât had the same opportunities and privileges that youâve had. </p>
<p>(Or those, like me, who chose to attend a âlesserâ school thatâs been mentioned here already instead of a âprestigious schoolâ because I thought that a perfect fit, great environment, and alluring scholarships were more important than impressing kids like you.)</p>
<p>âHere in China, name recognition is everything,â âWhen people think of âHarvardâ or âPrincetonâ, they think of world leaders, CEOs, future Presidents, etc.â</p>
<p>That explains EVERYTHING the OP has been saying. The Mainland Chinese obsession with name brand cachet denoting elite status. Itâs rather gauche and nouveau riche. That means a lot in Chinese business and besting your friends and neighbors for bragging rights, but Americans donât give a crap about it.</p>
<p>As a Chinese American immigrant, I note with bemusement the trend of the wealthy Mainland Chinese to prefer things (cars, jewelry, schools) by name brand rather then doing the investigation of what those things really are. </p>
<p>@irlandaise I am not saying the school you choose to attend is âlesserâ, I am saying that prestigious schools give more opportunities. </p>
<p>@NoVADad99 Iâm an American living in China, but the concepts of brand are universal no matter where you live, no? </p>
<p>Even still, I think the fact that you can get into an Ivy League college is an indication of your ability. The college admissions process is a holistic process that takes into account your academics and your extracurricular. Generally speaking, if you are successful in High School, then you will probably be successful later on. Prestigious universities are basically a recognition that you have the potential to be âsuccessfulâ. Thatâs why they are usually more advantageous in terms of job hiring and employment. Itâs a badge of honor, and can also be a great place to form connections with other potentially successful people. </p>
<p>Iâm saying the school Iâm to attend has been mentioned already here as an example of a lesser school. And I have no problem with that - itâs not an Ivy, but I donât believe thatâs indicative of the quality of academics or even the entire student body.</p>
<p>And yes, âif you are successful in high school, then you will probably be successful later onâ. Thatâs what weâve been trying to say all along. That an Ivy or similar does not a successful person (however you define that) make. A person that has the potential for âsuccessâ will find that regardless of where he or she attends. They are a âbadge of honorâ in the fields that consider them such - take Wall Street jobs. But that doesnât mean that in the remaining 95% of employers or social circles it has that impact. And youâve heard of grad school, right? Where you get your graduate degree is much more important than where you get an undergrad. And no - itâs still not about prestige, itâs about your training. Podunk U may be a top choice in microbiology, and you could get laughed out of an interview if you went to an Ivy for grad school in that (as an example, I have no idea what grad programs are good in microbio).</p>
<p>Prestigious universities may be a sign of success, but success itself is usually much more indicative. And success comes far more easier when youâre open to considering the possibility that these schools arenât all theyâre made up to be. They are, at the end of the day, just another school. </p>
<p>Edit: âprestigious schools give more opportunityâ. Iâll just quote #220, as itâs been said already, but:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>@drcharisma: Actually, how much what undergrad you go to matters depends a lot by region and industry, so you canât overgeneralize.</p>
<p>Youâre right, Iâm only speaking to what industries and regions Iâm familiar with. Iâll admit that I donât know of any where undergrad is really considered important, but I assume that of course there must be some.</p>
<p>Edit: assuming that was to me, since I was the one who said only grad school mattered.</p>
<p>I donât deny that the name of a college carries some weight. I think people have the right to do what they wish with their own money. If someone is fortunate to be accepted to a top college and the parents wish to pay for it, then that is their right too.</p>
<p>I donât agree with the concept that not attending a top college is a hindrance, and neither do I think it is correct to call any college a âjokeâ- with the exception perhaps of some that are not accredited or have a sketchy financial reputation, and none of those are being discussed here. I agree that for some international careers, a known college can have more weight than one that is regionally recognized. However, many colleges outside the top names can be excellent opportunities and do not deserve to be called âjokeâ. I think it is fine to value a top name college, but personally, I donât think it is fine to be consescending to other students and colleges, but people are free to be condescending if they wish. </p>
<p>The statement I have the most issue with is the idea that parents should render themselves bankrupt to provide a top education- that it is their duty or they are bad or uncaring. I recognize that this is coming from a 17 year oldâŠwho may or may not change his perspective in time. </p>
<p>" Iâm an American living in China, but the concepts of brand are universal no matter where you live, no?"</p>
<p>Are your parents ethnic Chinese or non-Chinese? Iâve encountered countless Chinese immigrants who are obsessed with brand named luxury goods and Ivy League schools, not having any knowledge of the more pedestrian offerings, reflexive dismissing them as âno good.â </p>
<p>As far as the concept of brand being universal where I live, the answer is âthat depends.â Is the brand so good that Iâm willing to pay a 50% premium over the other âlesserâ brand? 100%? 1000%? Whatâs the rate of return on said investment of the luxury brand?</p>
<p>Take, for example, cars. Is a BMW/Mercedes/Audi a âbetter carâ than a comparably equipped Toyota or Honda, given the premium (letâs say 30% for the car itself, not even counting the higher cost of maintenance)? That in all likelihood the Japanese car will provide a more reliable ownership experience over time and deliver higher âbang for the buckâ investment over the life of the car is not to be discounted. Unless you see yourself defined by the car you drive that you âhaveâ to have the luxury brand attached to your persona.</p>
<p>As for me, brands do nothing for me if they do not deliver a concrete higher return on investment. I have a friend who went to Harvard, and heâs had more difficulties in his employment history than me. So an Ivy League education is no guarantee of a better life. The school doesnât define you, you define you.</p>
<p>Undergrad is much more important when you donât have much of a graduate CV.</p>
<p>Take for example, surgical subspecialists. They have one of the longest CVâs youâll ever see in terms of graduated levels of formal training. No one ever asks where they went to college. Harvard, or Moo U. - it doesnât matter. The medical school they attended is only asked about by people who donât know much. The real question is âWhere did they do their residencyâ? And, maybe even more to the point; âWho did you do that fellowship with?â</p>
<p>^ and after that the concern from patients would be if the surgeon was a provider on their insurance. </p>
<p>There was a thread here at one time about a class valedictorian who attended MSU with honors scholarship, got excellent grades, and that, along with the research opportunities, had many medical schools to choose from. MSU is solid in the sciences ( and other subjects) and besides, has the best ice cream from those home grown cows.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>They are not universal. For example, in cars, the Buick brand is apparently much more desirable in China than it is in the US. For universities, most areas of employment in the US do not have a strict hierarchy of universities. Perhaps in China, there may be more areas of employment that hire using a strict hierarchy of universities.</p>