<p>Kellybkk, according to your profile, you’re 14. Sooo… why don’t you just pipe down? You really don’t know what you are talking about.</p>
<p>Kelly – are you a student? You certainly sound like one.</p>
<p>If you or your parents have all the money in the world, then fine. Harvard, Stanford, etc are great choices.</p>
<p>But for some of us, money is a factor. Then you weigh what things cost against the benefits. And for our family, with four kids who are all smart and top of their class, yes we strongly encouraged our kids to seriously consider the merit scholarships they received – esp if they were also thinking of going on to grad school or law/medical school after. </p>
<p>Schools like Duke and Stanford and Ivies cost a lot if you don’t qualify for need based scholarships and have to pay full price. And then adding cost of grad schools/law schools will make the total even higher.</p>
<p>Money doesn’t grow on trees. Taking advantage of a full tuition scholarship gave D1 advantages like studying abroad for 2 full semesters, which most students don’t get to do. </p>
<p>Is going to Duke which is ranked about 10th (costing $55k/year) that much better than Baylor which is ranked about 85th? (which cost us about $10k/year) We didn’t think going to Duke was worth paying $180,000 more for her education. And in Calif where we live, having that Duke degree or not won’t really make a difference.</p>
<p>For law and medical schools ( and two of my daughters want to go on to law school), the name of the school probably will matter depending on what type of law the person wants to do later. So why not save on undergraduate costs in order to have more money later for that “Name” grad school later?</p>
<p>IF one goes to both ivy type school for undergrad and ivy law school, the cost will probably be $220,000 undergrad and another $200,000/ law school . Again if cost didn’t make a difference, then fine. </p>
<p>Otherwise, $400,000 is a lot of money to spend on education for just one person. And if we did that for all four of our kids, the total spent on education would be $1,600,000. The money spent definitely WOULD NOT be worth the benefits gained. . . .not to mention we don’t have the 1.6 million anyway ( not even close).</p>
<p>kelly, sorry but that makes you sounds a little illogical. I am not disagreeing with you about the importance of the “BRAND” of a college (which sounds like you are commercializing education), but it is not worth spending 200,000 dollars to go to a branded college when you know you have to pay more than that for graduate school. These stories that you hear are from kids like me who got into top schools (TOP 20) and decide not to go because of money, grad school, etc.
So, I believe that I am not blowing my future away but actually making a smart decision now to further my educational opportunities. Please correct me if I am wrong. Your posts are very uninspiring to students who cannot go to the top colleges because of money. By the way kelly, I had the same mindset as you until I became a senior and realized how expensive college can be. After I heard some stories about ivy league undergraduate students not being able to pay for med school, I decided to go with the safe route.</p>
<p>In my case, it is a little different because my state school is ranked in the top 100 (1st tier?) so I think I am making a logical decision by going there when I dont have to pay any money to have a decent undergraduate education. </p>
<p>Great story janie! very informative</p>
<p>Kellybkk - brand can matter- depending on plans but Tier one wouldn’t accept tier 3 if they were bad, would they? It all depends on field/plans but if dept free and same end result - why not? Or if it simply meets the needs of people at that point in their life. The point is life is not determined at 14 or 18 or 21 or 30. You can change directions, try new things. I have no doubt that a student is a tier 3 grad school can do great things too. Are there advantages with “tier” for the terminal degree no doubt (I don’t know much about Baylor and Duke but when I did a quick google - they are both Tier one)
If your both you and your family really value that - go for it. But if you have a grandma who is thinking about the status of her undergrad program - she has other problems.
While I am thrilled at my D opportunities at Harvard Med for her PhD, does someone need that (including her) for a great life and career = hell no.
I love what bioeng 2011 said.
Geez - Kelly I should really drive you crazy and let you know that my D did community college classes instead of AP courses in HS. OMG - community college!! Wow- how can she live with the shame. But at 14, I think it hard to imagine all the paths that can take you to the same place. Good luck with HS!!</p>
<p>Kelly, I haven’t the slightest idea where most of my newer friends went to college unless they are huge sports fans of thier teams and then I 'Know."</p>
<p>it’s probably difficult to imagine at 14, when “where do you go to school?” is one of the first questions you might ask someone you meet, but adults don’t really ask that except in interviews.</p>
<p>Kelly will be that one annoying person who says when I was at school in -------(Cambridge, New Haven, etc) blah blah blah. Unless it’s football or CC there is not much point and people will think you are a jerk.</p>
<p>I have good news for you, kellybkk. You wrote, </p>
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<p>If you are lucky enough, and I hope we all are, to get to that age, you will have long since learned how very little it matters not only where a person when to college but if they went at all. People you outlive will be forever missed, where you went to college simply becomes a very small part of your past.</p>
<p>psych_ Thank you for sharing your wonderful story! I am thrilled for you and hope that you’ll continue to share your inspiring story with your fans here!</p>
<p>I actually agree that it makes sense to look at “prestige” when applying to PhD programs, but in psych, at least, that often looks different from what you would expect. For example, you often apply to a specific <em>person</em> who shares your research interests, and the prestige of the person may over-ride any program prestige (unless, perhaps, you’re talking about a non-university-based program at a professional school). Also, prestige may be realitive. If you’re interested in clinical work, you may want to go to a balanced clinical/research program and would robably not be fully satisfied with Harvard, Yale, Wisconsin, and Minnesota–all top clinical programs but extremely, extremely research-based. Also, stand-out programs may not correspond to undergrad rankings. For example, in my particular subfield, there;s one (sort of) Ivy-affilated program, but it’s not at the “top.” Instead, the most selective programs are at SUNY-Albany, Lehigh, Oregon, NCSU, South Carolina, etc. Even in clinical psych, Harvard, Yale, UPenn, and Duke, while highly ranked, also compete with Minnesota, Wisconsin, SUNY-Binghamtom, Arizona State, etc., for cross-admits students. Also, no one would be advised to turn down full funding at a solid program to go to a “top” program with no funding. It just wouldn’t be considered.</p>
<p>“Prestige” can be important in grad school, but in psych, it looks a lot different from undergrad–this almost certainly does differ by field, though, so YMMV.</p>
<p>D1, a high school junior, just got a little wake-up call about why she might want to consider going for the money. While touring a wonderful (and $$$) LAC, she snagged a postcard for a master’s program in environmental policy at an Ivy. We just took a look online to see the cost of the program. It’s a 12 month program (3 semesters), with a total COA of…just under $90k :eek: :eek: :eek:</p>
<p>It’s early days, and she may well change her mind about what she’d like to do. But this was a nice teachable moment about some tradeoffs between undergrad full-pay and undergrad with merit money.</p>
<p>kellybkk–“struggle the rest of your life”? I doubt it.</p>
<p>If you perform well at your first job, or teach/research/publish in your field, no one will look at you and think “feh…3rd tier graduate.”</p>
<p>Psych
Congrats on your success as well. You are so right that “prestige” in grad school is not linked to undergrad prestige. It is very much linked to researcher/clinical aspects. Harvard is not the top school for family practice. For those interested in research, the subfields even matter (top biology breaks down to micro, virology, ecology etc).
I am so happy to started this post. I know how excited you must be about grad school -I know my D is!!!
Let’s also note that a prestige degree, does not guarantee success. Ask the Harvard PhD that shot up her tenure meeting.</p>
<p>As the mom of a DS2 who is about to embark on this process, this thread was a valuable read. </p>
<p>DS1 ended up at his safety with money because he was shut out of most of the super competitive schools to which he applied - he’s done very well there, is also ‘sought out’ by some professors for some unique elements in his background, and has had lots of opportunities. If he does enter grad school, we will be able to contribute (though not full pay, that’s for sure) to the bills. So, for him, it was a blessing in disguise to be the big fish in the smaller pond, and to know that less than stellar effort in a required class, which left him time to pursue other interests, was still going to result in a solid grade.</p>
<p>DS2 has been encouraged by me to find a school with merit monies at a tier below where he could get admitted. Who knows what will happen, and he still does want to try for an up there ranked LAC, but if he does not get past the crapshoot that is admissions, he will do fine where he lands…</p>
<p>I chortled. By the time you are, oh say 25, no one cares where you undergrad degree came from. lol</p>
<p>( I ended my sentence with a preposition ) :(</p>
<p>Congrats to OP!</p>
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<p>I agree in principle, but that’s a bit of an overstatement. People do care; it’s just not important in the grand scheme of things. Sixteen years ago I got my master’s degree at one of those schools that makes people go, “Ooh, you went there?” The school’s reputation precedes me, in spite of the fact that (1) the education frankly wasn’t that good, and (2) my work today bears little relation to what I studied there.</p>
<p>“is going to Duke…that much better than Baylor”</p>
<p>Yes, it is that much better. The idea that Duke is the same as a third tier undergrad degree from Baylor is not true. There is a quality difference in life, some things are better. The students, professors, and facilities are better at Duke.</p>
<p>Does that change the outcome in life, measured by career and money, maybe not. I have a buddy who didn’t get in to Harvard so he didn’t go to college, he just went straight to work. He’s one of the top management consultants in high tech now, makes around a million a year. But, he would have liked to have had those 4 years at Harvard for the experience.</p>
<p>So, it’s true what Kelly says, Duke is better than Baylor, but it’s also true that ambitious people are successful regardless of where or if they went to college.</p>
<p>If the final outcome is what you focus on you miss all the moments you’re in now.</p>
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<p>That applies to most people I assume. And that’s why a solid undergraduate education is vital. Where to get one may be important.</p>
<p>Undergrad vs grad</p>
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<p>At the end of the day, the job requirement is degree. Can’t say the location of the degree impresses me. When I get the resumes, I am looking for experience, then degree and major if experience is lacking. The college is irrelevant. I haven’t seen any discernible difference between those with Name Brand undergraduate degree and Brand X undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>If one has been a top student, odds are, the ability to do and learn come through in the interview anyway.</p>
<p>Congrats to the OP and thanks for sharing. For a motivated, top student choosing a 3rd tier school for financial resasons may be a good choice. For some kids, however, it could be a disaster. I have a friend whose bright son picked a 3rd tier school with money over some better schools that would have a cost a bit more, but were not out of reach. He found that the kids were not intellectual, that studying and working hard were not valued, ended up playing more than working and left for state flagship. </p>
<p>I worry that my smart under-achieving son would have no incentive to work hard if he could slide by easily at a third tier scool. While kids that push themselves to the limit, no matter the level of work, could probably do well, I am not as convinced that a kid that needs more peer pressure or likes an intellectual environment would do as well at a 3rd tier school, even if the money were good. My kids would be miserable in an anti-intellectual environment of some (not all, but certainly some) of the schools listed as third tier on USNWR. </p>
<p>I also think that name recognition among the general public is very different from name recognition among those in the know. Certainly, most of those hiring for positions that require an excellent education know there is a difference between a top 50 university (or a top LAC) and a 3rd tier school in terms of the depth and quality of education the student received. The same would be true for grad school apps. </p>
<p>That being said, it isn’t surprising that the top student at a 3rd tier college that has actively undertaken reserach and internship opportunities would be a great candidate for any job or grad program. However, not sure it would hold true for kids a little farther down the ranks. A mid-level student at a top school is more likely to have success in grad school admissions than a mid-level student from a 3rd tier, even if the two are actually equal in ability.</p>
<p>Also, like mantori.suzuki, I went to a top school for grad school in science (and a good UG school, but with little name recognition). It does not come up often, but does have an effect on others. Also, it was a great experience to live and learn among others that understand the level of work and intellect that is required to succeed in such a program.</p>
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<p>Obviously you went to a Tier 3 school.</p>
<p>Guffaw.</p>