Top Ten most Prestigious Public Universities

<p>“Cal and UM are lucky that their flagships were so well-endowed back when their respective states were rolling in money. What will happen now? What proportion of their budgets are state-funded (at Virginia it’s 7%)?”</p>

<p>Can’t speak for how well endowed Berkeley is, but Michigan has not depended on the state for a majority of it’s funding for many years. Unlike much of the country, the state of Michigan is highly susceptible to recession and has been affected by it for many decades. The university, to it’s credit, recognized many years ago that it could not rely on state funding alone to keep it’s school world class. Michigan has a very large out of state alumni base that is very loyal. Thanks to them, and the generosity of many of it’s alumni and friends instate, the university has remained pretty much unscathed through this past recession.</p>

<p>William & Mary offers the closest “Ivy” experience of any public school. It was not founded as a public school and is much smaller and undergrad focused than other publics. Ive heard it described as the Brown or Dartmouth of the South. </p>

<p>For the traditional public U’s Virginia, Michigan, Cal are the top group. North Carolina, UCLA, Texas, Ga Tech are very good as well.</p>

<p>While MI State is left to suffer…</p>

<p>I think William and Mary would far better if it were not in the shadow of UVA, so to speak. I’ve been to both campus, most of the Ivies and know many alum. I’d vote for UVA for the closest to Ivy experience. </p>

<p>I’m from New Jersey but I live in Texas, so now I am well aware of the high regard in which UT is held. However, I’m a bit ashamed to say that I was surprised at how impressed family from New England to Chicago were by UT. I just didn’t know a lot about UT until we moved here and it turned out to be a difficult experience to watch PMKjr decline. Of course, it was made easier by knowing that someone on the waiting list was about to get fantastic news!</p>

<p>Let me state at the outset that I’m a Michigan alum (undergrad) and I held a visiting faculty appointment at Berkeley for one year, and many friends on the faculty there. I have deep attachments to both schools, but I’ll try to be as objective as I can here.</p>

<p>Berkeley and Michigan are both outstanding schools, but measured in certain ways, Berkeley might be the top university in America, public or private. Period. Evidence? Well, the data is old (1995) and limited in scope (41 “core academic disciplines”), but the most recent available NRC rankings of graduate programs by faculty quality, as rated by peers within the same discipline, gave Berkeley a total of 35 disciplines with faculty rankings in the top 10. Next closest was Stanford with 31, followed by Harvard (25), Princeton (21), and MIT (20). Among publics, the next highest was UCLA (15), followed closely by Michigan and Wisconsin (14 apiece). UVA and UNC-Chapel Hill weren’t even in the running, with 4 and 3, respectively.</p>

<p>You can broaden that a bit. A school can be very strong in a field and yet not make the top 10. Here’s a ranking of publics by programs in the (top 10, top 25):</p>

<ol>
<li>Berkeley (35, 36)</li>
<li>(tie) UCLA (15, 34)</li>
<li>(tie) Michigan (14, 35)</li>
<li>Wisconsin (14, 33)</li>
<li>Illinois (10, 23)</li>
<li>Texas (7, 28)</li>
</ol>

<p>After that there’s a significant drop-off, but it’s worth noting that UVA (4, 15) and UNC (3, 19) aren’t even competitive with Minnesota (5, 22).</p>

<p>As several people have noted, however, a university’s prestige is also partly derived from its distinction in the “learned professions” like law, medicine, or business. Taking those programs into account, I’d rank them like this:</p>

<ol>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Wisconsin</li>
</ol>

<p>UVA and UNC-Chapel Hill are nice schools and perhaps excellent places to get an undergraduate education, but they are simply not academic powerhouses on a plane with the likes of Berkeley and Michigan. UCLA is also an outstanding school, very competitive with Michigan and just a little behind Berkeley, but Michigan edges it out on the strengths of its professional schools. Wisconsin is, for my money, probably the most underrated university in America, though its professional schools aren’t quite as prestigious and the caliber of its student body not quite as high as the other top publics.</p>

<p>This could all change when the long-awaited new NRC rankings come out (if they ever do), but my guess is it won’t change very much because strength in a particular discipline tends to beget strength; the top academics are naturally drawn to the top schools in their particular discipline, giving those schools a huge built-in advantage in faculty recruitment and retention. Over the longer term, I’d be most worried about the schools in the University of California system, which among the top publics appear to be in the direst financial straits. Michigan has had to make only extremely modest cuts in the current recession owing to the strength of its endowment, the extremely conservative way it calculates endowment payout (based on a 7-year moving average, so it didn’t spend wildly when its endowment was flush), and its diversified revenue base that leaves it far less dependent on legislative appropriations than most other publics—which means when the state cuts its appropriations, it makes only a small blip in the university’s budget. In contrast, the UC system is heavily dependent on state appropriations, and both the state’s and the university’s budgets are in an extreme state of chaos (and the state of California’s structural budget deficits are far worse than the state of Michigan’s, by the way, despite high unemployment in both states). Worse, no one seems to have a plan to right the ship. Perhaps California’s economy will go into another boom phase before things fall apart completely. If not, I’d expect significant and potentially lasting damage to the crown jewels of the UC system.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>It is worth noting that among public universities, UVA and UNC-Chapel Hill have produced more Rhodes Scholars than any other. Both universities have incredibly strong academic reputations, and using data from 15 years ago to argue otherwise seems flawed, in my opinion.</p>

<p>Is there a chart somewhere showing average SAT scores of enrolled freshmen at the top colleges? I’d like to see something objective here about academic levels.</p>

<p>Edit: so far I found this, alpha order
<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/sat/a/SAT_Public_Univ.htm[/url]”>http://collegeapps.about.com/od/sat/a/SAT_Public_Univ.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Unsurprising (to me, anyway) that Berkeley, Illinois, and Michigan are highest in math while Virginia and Wm&Mary are highest in reading. Virginia, Wm&Mary and Berkeley take the writing honors. Interesting.</p>

<p>Incidentally, bclintonk, I don’t think anyone has argued with the notion that Berkeley has historically enjoyed the strongest reputation across the whole range of graduate departments of any public university.</p>

<p>Using Rhodes Schoars which represent a very very small fraction of students as a sign of anything is even less productive. Most schools that succeed in winning such awards have an office with people that help prepare and groom students in the ways to win the awards.
Also any analysis of the more recent US News grad dept rankings will give about the same rankings as the older NRC rankings.</p>

<p>^ I’m talking about strength of faculty, not just “graduate programs.” The only measures we have for that are NRC rankings (now admittedly dated) and, somewhat more indirectly, US News PA ratings, which are based entirely on a general survey of college and university presidents, provosts, and admissions directors who rate their peer institutions in a crude university-by-university assessment, not the kind of fine-grained discipline-by-discipline peer assessment the NRC uses. Both data sets are limited. What’s impressive is how closely they correlate.</p>

<p>this is so far off, that to even suggest it is not even funny</p>

<p>

[quote]
On the West Coast, UCLA is considered on-par with Berkeley for undergrad, and perhaps even more so[/auote]</p>

<p>rjk, tell you what…why don’t you provide all the departments and professional schools that Michigan is rated higher than UC Berkeley and I will provide the ones that UC Berkeley is rated higher.</p>

<p>ok?</p>

<p>you start</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>fully agree on this</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Lots of pom poms waving in this thread lol</p>

<p>Berkeley is lacking in the health sciences. I don’t think I need to repeat myself again. I have stated that Berkeley is the best public school in the country. It does NOT however have the complete academic breadth of Michigan. That is why I state that Michigan is the most COMPLETE public university in this country that does just about everything well. Because Berkeley does not have a medical school, it is not as complete of a school. For example, Michigan is a top five university in this country in dollars generated for research, mostly due to it’s prestigious medical school. I know that Berkeley has many departments rated higher than Michigan, heck they are ever better than Princeton in that regard.</p>

<p>These are the schools and colleges at UCB:</p>

<p>College of Chemistry
College of Engineering
College of Environmental Design
College of Letters and Science
College of Natural Resources
Graduate School of Education
Graduate School of Journalism
Haas School of Business
Goldman School of Public Policy
School of Information
School of Law (Boalt Hall)
School of Optometry
School of Public Health
School of Social Welfare</p>

<p>These are the colleges and schools at Michigan:</p>

<p>School of Medicine
College of Engineering
School of Law
School of Dentistry
School of Pharmacy
School of Music, Theatre & Dance
School of Nursing
A. Alfred Taubman College of Architecture & Urban Planning
Horace H. Rackham School of Graduate Studies
Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy
School of Education
Stephen M. Ross School of Business
School of Natural Resources & Environment
School of Public Health<br>
School of Social Work<br>
School of Information
School of Art & Design
School of Kinesiology </p>

<p>It’s quite clear that Michigan offers more breadth than UCB.</p>

<p>I think the more interesting questions are these:
• Why did some states, e.g., Michigan and Wisconsin, develop universities of high quality, breadth, and depth when certain other states with arguably equal or greater resources, e.g., NY, NJ, Pennsylvania, did not develop comparable universities?
• Why did Michigan and Wisconsin advance as they did, but some neighboring Midwestern states did not (Ohio, Illinois)? Although Ohio State is clearly rising in the ranks, for many, many years, it was perceived as mediocre. Although Illinois is highly ranked in many fields at present, historically it was not perceived to have the same level prestige of Michigan or Wisconsin.
• Why did Indiana, which has breadth and depth across many disciplines, not achieve a comparable level of prestige as Michigan, Wisconsin, or even, Illinois? Arguably, it continues to be underrated.
• Arguably, universities such as Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa were considered more prestigious research universities early in the 20th century than they are today. They all were relatively early members of the Association of American Universities. Why did they not continue on a path of prestige?
• Given the fiscal situation in California there is concern that UC will decline. Texas, which is in a relatively much better fiscal situation, seems to feel that it should have at least 5 highly ranked research universities. The last time Texas had money to spare, U Texas bought faculty, library collections, etc. Clearly, U Texas has strong departments in many disciplines, yet who really considers U Texas prestigious outside its region? Will Texas be able to advance its agenda, or is some necessary ingredient missing?</p>

<p>Along similar lines: look at North Carolina and South Carolina. NC has Duke, Davidson, Chapel Hill, Wake Forest. SC doesn’t have a single institution of note, academically speaking. No idea why!</p>

<p>South Carolina is a backward state in many respects. It’s doubtful that it has the intellectual-cultural or socio-political climate to attract top faculty across the disciplines. Even if the state decided to go all out to develop a first-rate university, it has a tough history to overcome.</p>

<p>Right, but what I don’t get is why SC developed that way and NC didn’t.<br>
Or maybe I should say, the other way around!</p>