<p>Miami of Ohio has a beautiful campus in the middle of a cow field next to NOTHING, 50 miles from Cincinnati; is it an oasis or a mirage.</p>
<p>every decent college has been called a **** āIvyā at some point.</p>
<p>alex,
Re your comment on the difficulty of undergrad business schools, </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>this is laughable. Your hubris at promoting your alma mater is only exceeded by your lack of appreciation for what goes on at other undergrad business schools. Plenty of undergrad business schools are tough. Thereās nothing going on at Ross or the others that isnāt going at UVAās McIntire (grade of A+), U Pennās Wharton (A+), Notre Dameās Mendoza (A+) and many others. These are pretty darn demanding programs. </p>
<p>Having profs who actually care about the teaching they deliver should be a differentiating factor for the student in making their collegiate selections. And on that score, there is a clear distinction between what the actual users are saying about their schools. </p>
<p>RML,rjk,
My comments were intended to round out the discussion and provide perspective for the large majority of readers here, ie, those that are seeking an undergraduate destination. IMO, your fixation on prestige and ranking universities based on graduate school research reputations is highly, highly damaging to their search and misleads them on the value and nature of their prospective undergraduate experience. I am continually amazed at the preoccupation with prestige, especially from posters that hail from non-US locales. </p>
<p>As for W&M, I think you guys donāt know the school, donāt know the graduates and donāt know how itās viewed in the American workplace, at least in the East. I will concede that its reputation within academia is much lower than your favorites. IMO, that is academiaās problem, not W&Mās, and reflects academiaās shortcomings and its fixation on research accomplishments rather than the welfare of its undergraduates. </p>
<p>W&Mās high quality is obvious if you have had direct contact with the school and been able to compare with it with many schools that rate much higher within the academic world. Based on the criteria that I consider most important to undergraduates (great peers, small classes, great teaching, large resources for undergrads), W&M offers a superior undergraduate experience.</p>
<p>Who the hell cares about ranking music departments?</p>
<p>^^^This all went back to a discussion about Michigan being more well rounded than UCB. I stated that I felt Michigan was the best all around public school in this country, combing a plethora of disciplines and having a very high quality rating in most of them. That is my opinion of course.</p>
<p>āNo way is McGill over Michigan. Just my qualitative observation. Canada is a very large country with fewer people than California. Just because they have good schools across the country, doesnāt mean any of them are superior to many of our top publics. You have three schools in Canada among the top 7 in North America. That is just plain wrong.ā</p>
<p>Typical American ignorant view point of the world. He didnt say anything about the 3 Canadian schools being among the top 7 schools in North America. Furthermore, the top schools in the US are mostly private. So, saying that those 3 top Canadian schools are as good as the top public schools in the US is pretty reasonable. Also, how will you explain Cambridge and Oxford which are located in England which is A LOT smaller than the US. =)</p>
<p>^^^^Your screen name is so appropos. Carefully reread what was written and report back. Last time I checked, England was not in North America. How either one of those schools even entered into this discussion has left me completely confused, boy. This is a discussion of public universities, not private.</p>
<p>AFC, I donāt care about music department rankings per se. I do, however, care about truth in advertising because a lot of kids read these threads and form opinions (although the fact that they often do so without research is bemusing to me.)
I also support the notion that UCB is generally perceived to be more prestigious, but agree that UMich is quite likely a little more well-rounded, with some notable pockets of strength.</p>
<p>But when a poster says something along the lines of ārjk, youāve yet to provide me with evidence that UMich Music blows away Berkeley musicā ā when in fact, it actually not only blows away ucb for music, ucb is not even a conservatory/som, it is reasonably important to challenge an either ignorant or possibly deliberately twisted statement so that the uninformed are not misinformed. It also makes me wonder at the accuracy of the posters other statements, although it could simply be attributed to a failure to comprehend the distinction between a professional school BMUS versus a liberal arts BA in music.</p>
<p>Thereās no reason to exclude the performing arts, or a medical school, or an engineering program, or a business school in oneās criterion of what makes a public school āprestigious.ā Those type of professional settings certainly DO influence perceptions of programs and the universities that support them.</p>
<p>And on that note, Iāll also agree with 000 about UBC. Perhaps it is not as well known in the U.S., but is ranks well, along with McGill and U of T, to the rest of the world (including music 
) Interestingly, those three Canadian publics also happen to be the home to the top music undergrad and graduate schools, perhaps a coincidental correlation but one of which I am fond since either politicians, education administrators or taxpayers in many American public k-12 settings do not seem to appreciate the need for education to include music and performing arts (at least if they have to fund it).<br>
Hi ho.</p>
<p>āCarefully reread what was written and report back. Last time I checked, England was not in North America. How either one even got into this discussion has left me completely confused, boy.ā</p>
<p>You should read again what I wrote. You seem to be blinded by your love to Michigan that you couldnt even think of why I used England. Well, letās seeā¦you were talking about how the population of a country relate to how prestigious the university can be. And England is an example of a small country with smaller population than the US. Yet, their top public universities trump all the public universities in the US (YES, INCLUDING MICHIGAN). So, now I hope you get it. I may be āconfusedā, but you are lost and ignorant. ;-)</p>
<p>^^^This is a discussion about prestige of course. Iām sure UBC is a fine school, as I know the other two are as well.</p>
<p>You should read again what I wrote. You seem to be blinded by your love to Michigan that you couldnt even think of why I used England. Well, letās seeā¦you were talking about how the population of a country relate to how prestigious the university can be. And England is an example of a small country with smaller population than the US. Yet, their top public universities trump all the public universities in the US (YES, INCLUDING MICHIGAN). So, now I hope you get it. I may be āconfusedā, but you are lost and ignorant. </p>
<p>The UK has about double the population of Canada in a country much, much smaller than Canada. I have no problem with saying that Oxbridge>Michigan as a whole. You do seem to have a problem with reading comprhension however.</p>
<p>āThereās no reason to exclude the performing arts, or a medical school, or an engineering program, or a business school in oneās criterion of what makes a public school āprestigious.ā Those type of professional settings certainly DO influence perceptions of programs and the universities that support them.ā</p>
<p>Why would anyone want to exclude the performing arts from what makes a university prestigious? I canāt speak for everyone of course, but I am in awe of those people who can sing, dance, play an instrument, compose, conduct, etc. and do them very well!</p>
<p>Every ranking system is flawed. Iām curious why youāre asking the question?</p>
<ul>
<li>Andy Lockwood</li>
</ul>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>I love when I read these threads just looking for the numbered list, and all I get is arguments. Itās actually quite annoying at times but funny at the same time.</p>
<p>Has anyone ultimately decided whether we are arguing over international or national prestige?</p>
<p>Internationally, Berkeley tops the list easily.</p>
<p>Nationally, I still think Berkeley is the most prestigious, but at least there would be arguments for other universities.</p>
<p>"Has anyone ultimately decided whether we are arguing over international or national prestige?</p>
<p>Internationally, Berkeley tops the list easily."</p>
<p>Well yes and no. Berkeley, as has been stated many times, does not have a medical school or hospital. While I agree that it has the most prestigious over all the other publics, having a medical center and health related professional schools add immensely to the prestige of a university. So in that MAJOR area of research and funding alone, Berkeley isnāt prestigious at all. It does not top any listing EASILY in regards to publics when one looks at it internationally, since medicine is a very prestigious area on itās own.</p>
<p>hawkette, do us a favor</p>
<ol>
<li>First read what you wrote to RML and rjk:</li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<ol>
<li>Now read the title of this thread. If you canāt seem to find it, here it is again:</li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Take some time to think about your attack on these two posters.</p></li>
<li><p>Now come back and apologize</p></li>
</ol>
<p>@rjkofnovi: quote:
Why would anyone want to exclude the performing arts from what makes a university prestigious? I canāt speak for everyone of course, but I am in awe of those people who can sing, dance, play an instrument, compose, conduct, etc. and do them very well!</p>
<p>Thank you!!! And I hope you show your support by attending performances! Bring your friends! And, show your support by voting for politicians who favor funding performing arts programs, especially in K-12. Thanks again!</p>
<p>Berkeley and Michigan are both prestigious. Michigan is definitely more well-rounded. Of course, Berkeley has better weather! :D</p>
<p>Is that what she said? I put her on ignore so long ago the only way I know what she is spewing is by reading her words through other responders.</p>