<p>I went to University of Maryland and I thought it was an amazing university with very intelligent and accomplished professors. I would never trade my experience for another school. It was ranked 53. Meanwhile, the arguably best public university is Berkeley, ranked at 21 on US News (this is Universities overall, not just public). One year out of college, I have a coworker who attended Berkeley for undergrad. We were originally given the same position, but I was the one who was promoted. That’s because where you went to undergraduate gets you in the door… but what you make of yourself is all on you. </p>
<p>Also keep in mind that employers don’t have a list of colleges, and if you weren’t in the top 10, they disregard you. Basically, if your employer has heard of your University and believes it to be a good University… that MIGHT help in the selection process of obtaining a job… in addition to your prior work experience (most important), your references, and a writing sample. Where you went is not as important as you think.</p>
<p>I also use to work on Capitol Hill, and our boss had a grudge AGAINST people who went to IVY League schools. He found them all to think they just deserved the job because they went to Harvard (yes, people would call our office and say… I just graduated from Harvard… can I have a job? No.).</p>
<p>datalook, UCSF is purely a Medical school. It should not enter this discussion.</p>
<p>As far as there being a big gap between Cal and the second group, I do not agree. Cal is indeed the best public university in the US, but Michigan (and a couple others) are not far behind.</p>
<p>and again, you have failed to find a post of mine in which I claim that UC Berkeley “blows away” Michigan in Music, because I never stated that.</p>
<p>on the contrary, it was rhk that specifically mentioned that Michigan blows away UC Berkeley in Music. This, of course, occurred after he first claimed that UC Berkeley didn’t have a music department.</p>
<p>No way is McGill over Michigan. Just my qualitative observation. Canada is a very large country with fewer people than California. Just because they have good schools across the country, doesn’t mean any of them are superior to many of our top publics. You have three schools in Canada among the top 7 in North America. That is just plain wrong.</p>
<p>“kmccrindle, what part of my post in which I mentioned that UC Berkeley has the #3 ranked Music department is erroneous?”</p>
<p>It is number three for musicology at the Phd level. There are no rankings for entire music departments and you know it. You are now officially a ■■■■■.</p>
<p>Okai, i’ll give you Michigan. They’re more like equals.
However, note that my criteria is, as the OP asked, PRESTIGE. Not undergrad education (which i agree is better in the US), and certainly not population per square kilometer. Gill, UT, and UBC are great, well known schools. Refer to any rankings including these three schools, and you’ll see that they are well among the top 10 in North America, nvm only the publics.</p>
<p>I’ll give you Mcgill and maybe Toronto, but not UBC. UBC is not well known in the states at all and therefore lacks the prestige that you are certain it has.</p>
<p>Okay, fair enough. I agree that UBC is less prestigious. But, it’s still known alongside 'Gill and UT as the top 3 in Canada (though some would argue that Queen’s is better)
How about this:</p>
<p>Tier 1: Berkeley
Tier 2: McGill = Michigan
Tier 3: UCLA –> U of Toronto-St.George = Virginia –> UNC-CH = Wisconsin-Madison = UIUC –> UBC</p>
<p>Honourable mentions include
Canada: Waterloo, Queen’s, York
US: Texas-Austin, William & Mary, UCSD, and Georgia Tech</p>
<p>hawkette, like I said, this thread is about prestige, as in, the most prestigious public university in America. Do you seriously think that W&M is more prestigious than Berkeley?</p>
<p>hawkette is so fixated on small undergraduate focused schools she completely misses out on the purpose of this thread. There is no way W&M is more prestigious nationally, and certainly internationally, than UCB. Frankly, it’s not even close.</p>
<p>“and yet you continue to say this even when your own school, Michigan, provides that they are ranked #4 overall for its Music department”</p>
<p>Thanks for providing an antiquated ranking from 1999. It means so much 11 years later. From what I’ve heard, USNWR doesn’t rank music schools anymore.</p>
<p>“and again, please tell us that Michigan “blows away” UC Berkeley’s #3 ranked Music Department as you have been continuously claiming:”</p>
<p>kmckrindle answered this statement already far better than I could:</p>
<p>"You’re kidding, right? The credibility of your otherwise elegant assertions re UCB have diminished a little for me.
UCB doesn’t even HAVE an accredited undergraduate BMUS degree, just a BA in “music”. Michigan SOM is a leading conservatory that ranks overall in the top 5-10 range depending on department/instrument UG and further, in terms of graduate studies, ranks in the top three for things such as composition. (Eg. USN 1999: Overall, 4th; Conducting, 1st; Composition, 2nd, Piano, Orchestra, 4th; Opera/Voice, 5th; Jazz, 7th…NRC1995 Overall 9th)</p>
<p>Perhaps this is not common knowledge among non-musicians, since the USNews et al now eschews ranking performing arts schools (in 1999) and the “USNEWS phemon” seems to lead to some of these closely held assumptions about prestige.
The foregoing is not to diminish UCB’s very excellent ACADEMIC-BASED music history/ethno-musicology GRAD degrees, which are well-regarded. But it is ridiculous to suggest that a school with a nationally and internationally well-regarded School of Music could possibly be “blown away” by a liberal arts department that cannot even confer a specific music degree such as “piano.” Pedagogically speaking, that’s like comparing a 2-year community college instrumentation engineering certificatewith an engineering degree from UMich, UIll, etc. Just not comparable in scope."</p>
<p>kmccrindle mistakenly quoted you with saying that UCB blows away Michigan in music. I was the one who made that statement of course and I stand by it. To me it just shows, once again, that Michigan is a more complete university than UCB and does just about everything very well. You on the other hand, will not ever admit you might be wrong in any of your assertations, even when exposed to the obvious from someone who really knows what he/she is talking about.</p>
<p>JohnAdams, Cal’s ranking of #3 is according to the NRC. That’s not a ranking for performance or composition but for Music theory. Michigan’s ranking in this field according to the NRC is #9. Did you notice how other Music powerhouses, such as Indiana, Julliard, Northwestern, Oberlin, Rice and Rochester are not ranked anywhere near the top 10 by the NRC. Music theory is merely an academic field whereas Performance and Composition are the very essense of Music. As such, Performance and Composition are far more important than Music Theory, and in that domain, Michigan is one of the very best.</p>
<p>Like I said Alexandre it’s like comparing Duke’s excellent biomedical engineering department and then saying it is a better engineering school than MIT.</p>