<p>Papa Chicken, would you consider again putting the (rough, estimated) total aggregate change at the bottom of your list as you did once before for me? Many thanks.</p>
<p>ardentgardner, that was a great post. However, while the Common App and the current application system are obviously far from perfect, it is still far better and more equitable than what we had decades ago. I absolutely agree with everything you wrote, but I see no easy – or, more importantly, practical – solution to reaching out to all 3 million high school graduates per year and have them start on something resembling a level playing field.</p>
<p>FWIW, there’s a nice piece in the NY Times on this very issue today.</p>
<p>Harvard’s admit rate came in at 5.8% (I had guessed 5.7 or 5.8). My guess for Stanford was 5.9 or 6.0. We’ll probably find out later today.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am not sure what you meant with the reference about the frustration of my family members interested in sport events, but it does not matter. I am, however, afraid that you made the mistake of believing I do not understand the issue. As someone who has helped countless low and lower income navigating the world of selective college admissions, I believe that declaring the process MISERABLE is indeed quite the hyperbole. </p>
<p>I stand by my words about the lack of appropriate guidance at plenty of schools, and your comment about the silly demands of the IB program boondoggle simply reflects that, but that is a different story. Here is a reality: the information is out there, and it has become a LOT more accessible than it was when I had to learn the ropes a decade ago. At that time, there were no Questbridge, this site was in its infancy, and the internet was not delivering as much as today. </p>
<p>Simply stated, the lack of information is a giant red herring. What is missing is the usual overly-masticated and prepared stack of information that the younger minds expect. </p>
<p>It is a matter of setting the correct priorities, and I offer my sympathy for the difficulties that exist at your public magnet school. I do understand the weaknesses of the type of environment your daughter is. And, hence, the need more than ever to rely on … oneself! And not making excuses!</p>
<p>Stanford came in at 5.69%. Lower than Harvard and lowest of the elite national universities. Wow.</p>
<p>[Stanford</a> Daily | Class of 2017 admit rate marks record low](<a href=“http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/03/29/class-of-2017-admit-rate-marks-record-low/]Stanford”>http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/03/29/class-of-2017-admit-rate-marks-record-low/)</p>
<p>Here’s the piece from the Times I was talking about. I’d be interested in hearing xiggi’s (and others) thoughts on it.</p>
<p>THE IVY LEAGUE WAS ANOTHER PLANET</p>
<p>By CLAIRE VAYE WATKINS
Published: March 28, 2013 </p>
<p>IN 12th grade, my friend Ryan and I were finalists for the Silver State Scholars, a competition to identify the “Top 100” seniors in Nevada. The finalists were flown to Lake Tahoe for two days of interviews. On the plane, Ryan and I met a boy from Las Vegas. Looking to size up the competition, we asked what high school he went to. He said a name we didn’t recognize and added, “It’s a magnet school.” Ryan asked what a magnet school was, and spent the remaining hour incredulously demanding a detailed account of the young man’s educational history: his time abroad, his after-school robotics club, his tutors, his college prep courses.</p>
<p>All educations, we realized then, are not created equal. For Ryan and me, of Pahrump, Nev., just an hour from the city, the Vegas boy was a citizen of a planet we would never visit. What we didn’t know was that there were other, more distant planets that we could not even see. And those planets couldn’t see us, either.</p>
<p>A study released last week by researchers at Harvard and Stanford quantified what everyone in my hometown already knew: even the most talented rural poor kids don’t go to the nation’s best colleges. The vast majority, the study found, do not even try.</p>
<p>For deans of admissions brainstorming what they can do to remedy this, might I suggest: anything.</p>
<p>By the time they’re ready to apply to colleges, most kids from families like mine — poor, rural, no college grads in sight — know of and apply to only those few universities to which they’ve incidentally been exposed. Your J.V. basketball team goes to a clinic at University of Nevada, Las Vegas; you apply to U.N.L.V. Your Amtrak train rolls through San Luis Obispo, Calif.; you go to Cal Poly. I took a Greyhound bus to visit high school friends at the University of Nevada, Reno, and ended up at U.N.R. a year later, in 2003.</p>
<p>If top colleges are looking for a more comprehensive tutorial in recruiting the talented rural poor, they might take a cue from one institution doing a truly stellar job: the military.</p>
<p>I never saw a college rep at Pahrump Valley High, but the military made sure that a stream of alumni flooded back to our school in their uniforms and fresh flattops, urging their old chums to enlist. Those students who did even reasonably well on the Asvab (the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, for readers who went to schools where this test was not so exhaustively administered) were thoroughly hounded by recruiters.</p>
<p>My school did its part, too: it devoted half a day’s class time to making sure every junior took the Asvab. The test was also free, unlike the ACT and SAT, which I had to choose between because I could afford only one registration fee. I chose the ACT and crossed off those colleges that asked for the SAT.</p>
<p>To take the SAT II, I had to go to Las Vegas. My mother left work early one Friday to drive me to my aunt’s house there, so I could sleep over and be at the testing facility by 7:30 on Saturday morning. (Most of my friends didn’t have the luxury of an aunt in the city and instead set their alarms for 4:30.) When I cracked the test booklet, I realized that in registering for the exam with no guidance, I’d signed up for the wrong subject — Mathematics Level 2, though I’d barely made it out of algebra alive. Even if I had had the money to retake the test, I wouldn’t have had another ride to Vegas. So I struggled through it and said goodbye to those colleges that required the SAT II.</p>
<p>But the most important thing the military did was walk kids and their families through the enlistment process.</p>
<p>Most parents like mine, who had never gone to college, were either intimidated or oblivious (and sometimes outright hostile) to the intricacies of college admissions and financial aid. I had no idea what I was doing when I applied. Once, I’d heard a volleyball coach mention paying off her student loans, and this led me to assume that college was like a restaurant — you paid when you were done. When I realized I needed my mom’s and my stepfather’s income information and tax documents, they refused to give them to me. They were, I think, ashamed.</p>
<p>Eventually, I just stole the documents and forged their signatures. (Like nearly every one of the dozen or so kids who went on to college from my class at P.V.H.S., I paid for it with the $10,000 Nevada Millennium Scholarship, financed by Nevada’s share of the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement.)</p>
<p>Granted, there’s a good reason top colleges aren’t sending recruiters around the country to woo kids like me and Ryan (who, incidentally, got his B.S. at U.N.R. before going on to earn his Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from Purdue and now holds a prestigious postdoctoral fellowship with the National Research Council). The Army needs every qualified candidate it can get, while competitive colleges have far more applicants than they can handle. But if these colleges are truly committed to diversity, they have to start paying attention to the rural poor.</p>
<p>Until then, is it any wonder that students in Pahrump and throughout rural America are more likely to end up in Afghanistan than at N.Y.U.?</p>
<p>Claire Vaye Watkins, an assistant professor of English at Bucknell, is the author of the short story collection “Battleborn.”</p>
<p>There are two sides to every story. Even to poorly written and researched ones like the one above. </p>
<p>If poor kids from a rural area do have handicaps, are the handicaps really smaller in the major metropolitan areas? Is it great to be a college applicant in Detroit or Washington, DC? Aren’t the rich not complaining about the inherent advantages of URM or low SES students? Aren’t the kids who rub elbows with other blue-blooded students at the tony privates not complaining how hard it is to … emerge from the pack of uber-motivated students? </p>
<p>Here’s the other side. It is easy to shine like a beacon of light in a remote area. When a student from an impoverished area builds a compelling application with high scores and activities, what do you think happens in the mind of adcoms who are constantly reminded about casting a wider net. Don’t you think that the HYPS adcoms would love to have more students from Montana or from deep in Alabama? And they DO account for SES status and fewer opportunities when evaluating applicants. They do in the form of lower SAT/ACT expectations, few if any AP courses, etc. They DO! </p>
<p>The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.</p>
<p>Here’s a link to the NY Times article by Ms. Watkins. It’s easier to post the link to avoid copyright issues…</p>
<p><a href=“Opinion | Elite Colleges Are as Foreign as Mars - The New York Times”>Opinion | Elite Colleges Are as Foreign as Mars - The New York Times;
<p>Rice admissions claim their increase in apps is >2%
</p>
<p>Middlebury final # up a few to 9,112
[Middlebury</a> College offers 1,750 students acceptance to the Class of 2017 | Middlebury](<a href=“Middlebury News and Announcements”>Middlebury News and Announcements)</p>
<p>tougis-- give me a bit, gotta find my spreadsheet.</p>
<p>Lehigh revision +8.9% (>12,560)
[Making</a> the grade: Inside the college admissions process](<a href=“http://www.philly.com/philly/education/200682361.html]Making”>http://www.philly.com/philly/education/200682361.html)</p>
<p>[Lehigh’s fall '12 CDS for last year’s apps: <a href=“http://www.lehigh.edu/~oir/cds/lucds2012.htm[/url]”>http://www.lehigh.edu/~oir/cds/lucds2012.htm</a>]</p>
<p>SUNY Canton -19.6% (4,276)
[Watertown</a> Daily Times | SUNY Canton sees applications, acceptances dip, reversing five-year trend](<a href=“http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20130329/NEWS05/703299874]Watertown”>http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20130329/NEWS05/703299874)</p>
<p>Ohio U up to 20,512
[Ohio</a> University admission applications top 20,000](<a href=“http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/state/ohio-university-admission-applications-top-20000]Ohio”>http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/state/ohio-university-admission-applications-top-20000)</p>
<p>Increased recruiting for internationals…
<a href=“http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130326/NEWS02/303260004/UVM-hires-firm-to-recruit-more-international-students[/url]”>http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130326/NEWS02/303260004/UVM-hires-firm-to-recruit-more-international-students</a></p>
<p>catch-up</p>
<p>Skidmore +42.7% (8,143)
Northern Kentucky >+30% (no app count)
Clark +29.0% (5,545)
Ohio State +25.6% (35,300)
Case Western +25% (18,226)
UChicago +20% (30,369)
Ohio U +17.4% (20,512)
UCSC +16.9% (38,507)
UC Merced +16.6% (14,966)
Boston U +16.3% (51,197)
U Washington +15.7% (30,073)
UMass Boston +14.7% (8,603)
St Lawrence +14.4% (3,080)
Brandeis +14.2% (9,370)
UCSB +13.9% (62,402)
Ithaca +13.2% (15,641)
UC Riverside +13.2% (33,809)
UC Davis +13.1% (55,877)
Kalamazoo +13% (>2,400)
Tufts +12.4% (18,410)
WPI +12.0% (8,498)
UC Irvine +11.3% (60,619)
NYU +11.2% (48,606) [all campuses including Shanghai & Abu Dhabi]
Alma +11.1% (1,820)
UMass Lowell +11% (7,328)
UCLA +10.8% (80,472)
UCSD +10.8% (67,403)
Babson +10.3% (6,080)
Pepperdine +10% (10,443)
UC Berkeley +9.7% (67,658)
Emerson +9.7% (7,756)
Vanderbilt +9.5% (31,033)
Cal Poly, SLO +9.4% (40,404)
Claremont McKenna +8.9% (5,509)
Lehigh +8.9% (>12,560)
Rochester +8.2% (17,146)
Colgate +7.4% (calc ~8,375)
U Texas >+7.3% (>38,000)
Northeastern +7.0 (47,322)
UVa +6.7% (29,005)
Miami U +6.3% (21,593)
San Diego State is +6.0% (53,760)
St Andrews +6% (14,355)
RPI +~6% (16,112)
Stanford +6.0% (38,828)
Bates +5.9% (5,194)
Cornell +5.8% (40,006)
Trinity +5.7% (7,500)
NC State +5.5% (calc’d to be >21,384, count incomplete)
Wellesley +5.5% (4,794)
Columbia +5.3% (33,531)
Fordham +5.0% (35,229)
MIT +~4.9% (almost 18,989)
UMass Amherst +4.8% (36,000)
Bowdoin +4.7% (7,029)
Wesleyan +4.5% (10,969)
U North Carolina +4.0% (30,689)
U Southern Cal +3.7% (47,800)
Virginia +3.5% (~29,250)
SUNY Binghamton +3.4% (29,089)
Barnard +3.3% (5,609)
Middlebury +3.0% (9,112)
Bryn Mawr >+2.8% (2,700+)
Colby +2.8% (5,390)
Yale +2.8% (29,790)
Vermont +2.7% (22,277)
William & Mary +2.5% (14,000)
Union +2.5% (5,643)
Olin +2.4% (800)
CU Boulder +2.3% (22,287)
Northwestern +2.2% (32,772)
Harvard +2.1% (35,023)
Rice +1.76% (~15,400)
Rhode Island <+1.76% (“close to” 21,000)
Smith +1.4% (4,402)
Emory +0.91% (17,652)
George Washington +0.87% (21,946)
Juilliard +0.82% (2,338)
Brown +0.62% (28,919)
JHU +0.54% (20,613)*
Duke +0.53% (31,785)
Swarthmore +0.38% (6,614)
Villanova +0.21% (14,933)
Scripps +0.13% (2,376)
Penn +0.00% (31,219)
Caltech -0.02% (5,536)
Georgetown -0.12% (20,025)
Grinnell -0.57% (4,528)
Princeton -0.62% (26,498)
Holy Cross -1.3% (7,079)
Harvey Mudd -1.6% (3,537)
Hamilton -1.8% (5,017)
Elon -2.5% (9,791)
Pitzer -2.9% (4,103)
Dartmouth -3.0% (22,416)
Williams -3.3% (6,836)
Bucknell -3.6% (7,834)
Vassar -3.9% (7,600)
Pomona ~-4.8% (~7,100)
Amherst -7.7% (7,908)
Penn State ~-9% (~43,272, calculated)
SUNY Canton -19.6% (4,276)
Boston College -26.6% (~25,000) </p>
<p>for the record, 2 other Stanford source articles as the one linked above does not work anymore
[Applications</a> for the Class of 2017 set record at Stanford](<a href=“You've requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News”>You've requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News)
[Stanford</a> Daily | Class of 2017 admit rate marks record low at 5.7 percent](<a href=“http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/03/31/class-of-2017-admit-rate-marks-record-low/]Stanford”>Class of 2017 admit rate marks record low at 5.7 percent)</p>
<ul>
<li>I used the 12-13 CDS for '16 apps:
<a href=“Registrar - Homewood Schools (KSAS & WSE) | Office of the Registrar | Johns Hopkins University”>Registrar - Homewood Schools (KSAS & WSE) | Office of the Registrar | Johns Hopkins University;
</ul>
<p>Where did you get the info on Rice’s app numbers, papachicken? Their admissions office says apps were up over 2% this year.</p>
<p>jym626- I broke my golden rule in this case and used your info (being a reliable long-time senior member!), after I did some checking, rather than relying on web published reports.</p>
<p>First, I checked other CC sources, including your own in which you included more of the Rice admissions quote: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/15719996-post638.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/15719996-post638.html</a></p>
<p>And I googled your quoted phrase & found past year verbiage which was almost identical to that which you posted, except the numbers were different of course. That find gave me confidence that what you posted was indeed from Rice admissions. Combined with the fact that the NYT had previously posted stats only slightly lower than the 15,400 reported by you, I felt it wasn’t too much of an editorial stretch to use your quote as the source.</p>
<p>The quoted phrase regarding apps growth is: “up 2% over last year” not “over 2%” so I stuck with 15,400, not seeing anything solid that it was “>2%” in meaning. Nor did they imply that the apps number was greater than 15,400. So, if I use the NYT '16 apps and 15,400 for '17, I come to +1.76% which I could see an admissions office rounding to 2%.
<a href=“Application Tally 2013 - Graphic - NYTimes.com”>Application Tally 2013 - Graphic - NYTimes.com;
<p>Hard to check otherwise as Rice is not exactly the most forthcoming with info and their CDS site needs updating: [Common</a> Data Set : Rice University](<a href=“Rice University”>Rice University)</p>
<p>I will of course keep a look-out, but if you find anything more reported, please post.</p>
<p>My apologies for not spelling out my methods earlier on this one (as I usually try to do).</p>
<p>Thanks for catching the “up 2% over last year” verbiage. That is correct. And thanks for the vote of confidence. I assure you this is reliable. Here’s the full quote (I posted it in the Rice forum, as you noted):
</p>
<p>Maybe this is what they feel will push to 2%?
Why aren’t the athletic recruits apps not already in the count?</p>
<p>hmmm…good question, as they should have applied already. Well, by my math, there will have to be at least 36 more applications, getting to 15,436, to break 2.00%. That’s a lot of late applying athletes.</p>
<p>BTW, Rice’s online profile corroborates the 15,133 class of '16 apps scribed in the NYT table. [Future</a> Owls](<a href=“Office of Admission | Rice University”>Office of Admission | Rice University)
</p>
<p>Yield management is important in athletics too. Coaches want to extend REAL offers to jocks who will come if accepted, and adcoms want to admit jocks who should become Owls. </p>
<p>In many ways, it is a parallel world. The formal application might be … a mere formality.</p>