<p>Lets be realistic. This is 2007 and 20 years ago it was possible for someone to start working out of high school and be able to support a family on what that type of salary. Those days are long gone and never coming back. </p>
<p>A college degree is the key to The American Middle Class. Nowadays most students graduating with bachelors degrees are worried that their salaries wont be enough to live off comfortably and that graduate school is the only way to avoid being heavily in debt your entire life. </p>
<p>Employers are becoming more and more demanding as far as education goes. All employers are looking for top talent for bottom dollar. It seems like society's most important jobs (teachers, engineers, etc etc) are getting paid less and less and any idiot who can make it through 4 years of partying putting in little to no effort at a business school will get paid double in their first year what a teacher will be making the year they retire. This will change when less and less people decide to do these jobs the demand will go up and the salaries will increase. It's a see-saw.</p>
<p>you can still go work for verizon, Bellm MTA. right out of HS and plan to retire with a full pension, and full everything else along with ending at around 80K a year minimum. Not much has changed. Like I said my brother john right out of HS started at 33K a year at Con Edison its been about 10 years well 9 and a half and is now up to around 51K. Even thogh his salary may seem low, he has about 3 full weeks paid vacation a year, a company car, a 2:1 401K, in a stock purchase program, and insanely good no copay medical insurance.</p>
<p>almost seems like the better option to me, and this is by no means just my brother, my family is filled with blue collar workers, my aunt worked at a Raceway for horse racing and they closed, she made around 39K a year, with no HS education. Sh was a secretary, she retired at 41 when the company closed and they give her here full yearly salary and full benefits till she dies. again, she may have been lucky but she is well off being retired and now 48, with all that money and just her. She gives amazing gifts at Christmas.</p>
<p>Well, 50k a year after 10 years of hard work doesnt seem justified. Remember that 50k a year turns out to about 35-40 after taxes and in NYC you can forget above living a comfortable life style, You'd be in severe debt. Keep in mind housing inflation and just about everything else keeps going up in price. in about 5 years I'd be surprised if you can live anywhere in NYC (meaning the actual city) for less than 3,000 a month. Anyone who lives in NYC knows 3,000 a month will not get you much now let alone in 5 years from now. The average price of a 1 bedroom apartment in NYC is 1,000,000 meaning half of the apartments are significantly more. retiring off 80k a year may have been great in your moms days but wake up. This is 2007! 80k a year after your 401k and taxes will be closer to 60k meaning youll be coming home with 1,100 dollars every week. Sure, for recent graduates that live alone that is sufficient. But I have serious doubts that I would be able to afford a wedding, a wife, children, for 80k a year.</p>
<p>I remember a public service announcement 30 or 40 years ago that warned "To get a good job, you need a good education!" Well, that clearly isn't true anymore! Sure, most 6-figure salaries are made by people with college degrees. Successful entrepreneurs do even better. But, I bet that the person working for the phone company, post office or as a master plumber or master electrician is making more than an english major who is folding shirts at the Gap, hoping to some day become the store manager. A college degree is no longer a ticket to the good life...it really depends on how marketable the degree, and the individual, is.</p>
<p>That of course is only if you consider being a postal worker "the good life." I sure as hell don't. The average college graduate will make $1m more than someone who doesn't go to college.
I'd like to be able to raise a family and have them live a comfortable life style, in a decent home, maybe a small vacation home on the jersey shore and I highly doubt the $600 a week ill be taking home working for Verizon is gonna be able to afford sending my kids to college, Heck I wonder if it'll even pay the bills.</p>
<p>in general, it is BETTER to be a doctor than an engineer. i think being a doctor is more prestigious, more important, and the schooling is harder. but then again, it is harder, i don't think i could be a doctor :(</p>
<p>18 years old-->engineering school----> 22nd birthday---) 55k a year job----> MBA +experience+dedication---->120K yearly, AGE 29++</p>
<p>18 years old---->premed--->med--->residency----> 28-31 years old shmuck
who starts at 70k---->specialization---> 35+++ THEN 150K+ yearly</p>
<p>BASICALLY, an engineer(if he gets an MBA) is ten times better, hes not on 24 hour call for the first 4 years of work, he starts of good, and usually they get to work 4 days a week. great. Big companies even sponsor vacations, doctors are too busy fixing people. (i do appreciate them though...)</p>
<p>Like I have said and others have said, I live in NYC and much less than 50K a year. Much less. and we live more than comfortably. and I would never send my kids to college, once you turn 17 get up and get out of the house. My kids will get what they need and they don't need a college education, if they want one, then sure thats great and they can take loans to pay for one.</p>
<p>Also I highly doubt doctors are more important than engineers, Pull engineers out of the world and everything you see wouldn't be there. We would be on a field of grass or maybe in a cave,.</p>
<p>At school all of the pre-med kids I have met except 2, are the most heartless people I have ever met. I cant believs they want to become doctors and the PharD students are even worse. Its 100% about the money for them. While I try and tell them they wont be making that 500K a year like the glitzy TV shows portray, nobody believes me.</p>
<p>Id rather become a Nurse Practitioner and then get a MBA and you will still make alot more than doctors. Going into management.</p>
<p>i know someone who makes around 89,000(CASH BRING HOME!) a year. Hes a real piece of work, still complains that he isnt making enough. According to him, one needs to make 20k a month to live a decent life. I disagree. You need 20k a day. :)</p>
<p>by the way, mba aint necessary, my cousin is an aerospace engineer who has given a chance to sign a 5 year contract with emirates. They told him at the end of the contract we will put you up for management. he rejected the offer. planning for a phd in aerodynamics.</p>
<p>i586 - you dont live in NYC you live in the bronx. i am not talking about the other boroughs specifically Manhattan. The high paying jobs are in Manhattan and if you decide youre gonna dedicate time and energy to your career youre going to want to live in Manhattan as well for the convenience.</p>
<p>Um no I live in NYC as the bronx is part of NYC. and I plan to live the the bronx for my entire life, its the best place in the world to live. I love it.</p>
<p>whoa @ i586. "My kids will get what they need and they don't need a college education, if they want one, then sure thats great and they can take loans to pay for one". </p>
<p>hah that seems pretty harsh... i mean, you would bring them into the world and then leave it to them to figure out -- it just doesn't sound fair. i think it would be better if you at least let them make their own decisions of whether or not they might believe in a college education and then in some way support them of their choice. in the least, i don't think it should be solely up to the parent to decide that college after high school is worthless for his/her kid and wouldn't help out just because of that view.</p>
<p>i mean my parents wanted me to go to college but haven't said anything yet about helping me out though i know they'll be there if i ever need help with my loans.</p>
<p>hinmanCEO - the $$ aspect is directly related to difficulty of the carriculum, I will explain exactly why.
I wouldn't find engineering as difficult if after graduate school I'd be making 100k a year starting. That Isn't the case, Graduate School for engineering wont really get me anywhere, If a PhD in engineering would give me 150k a year. Yes I'd be more willing to put the effort in. That's just me.</p>
<p>uriA702, i know u said this before... but you are majoring in EE right? which school?</p>
<p>and i agree, EE/engineering is a "harder" route since we get paid less... but remember getting a BS/MS in engineering is much easier than getting a medical degree :p</p>
<p>If they want to go to college thats great and fine, I will support them. But I wont give them a cent for it. I have piratically been on my own since I was 14, I still live with my mother, but i need to pay for everything and have since I was 14. She provided what I needed, clothes food shelter, everything else I worked for. I never got gifts or anything like that, if I wanted it I worked for it. I turned out great and I will raise my kids the same. I don't believe in spoiling a child and giving them a free college education is spoiling them. Even if I had the money, I wouldn't give em a cent. If the were to fall, id help em back up, but just so far. They get Shelter, school supplies, food and 3 shirts and a pair of pants per year. Thats all they need to survive, if they want more, they can GET A JOB.</p>