<p>Standard, Honors, AP…and a lower level for those who need it. You can mix and match so D is in standard math/sci and AP Eng/history. Anyone who wants to do Honors or AP can-- which I love-- though of course you’ll be counseled against if you don’t seem ready, and if you end up failing, them’s the breaks. In our public HS, which has a huge range of kids from those who will not go on to any higher education to those who are HYP material, it would be awful not to have options. But I think it’s great that ambitious kids can shoot high.</p>
<p>To answer some questions that were asked of my post: we live in Virginia, which has an “advanced diploma” option for ambitious high school students. It requires 4 years of math, science, and history and 3 of a foreign language, whereas the regular diploma kids just have to take 3, 3, 3, and 2. Everybody has to take 4 years of English. You can satisfy the advanced diploma requirements, however, with standard or advanced courses; they don’t need to be at the honors level. And everybody, at every level, has to pass the “Standards of Learning” tests for each subject. </p>
<p>None of this correlates neatly with what college kids can apply to, although UVA and William and Mary would expect an honors/AP/dual enrollment curriculum, while the less selective state schools aren’t as picky. </p>
<p>The difference between my kids’ school’s setup and the one I remember from my youth is that it does permit students to accelerate in some subjects while doing much lower-level work in others in which they may not have as much natural talent. We just had a “smart,” “average,” and “dumb” track and if you were in the smart classes, you were in them for every subject.</p>
<p>We are in NY too. We have a relatively small school (860 HSers). We do have a wide range of classes including 14 APs, but only two levels: regents and honors or AP. So in 11th grade you either take AP Language or Regents English, there is no Honors level. Regents were designed to determine a minimum standard. Our school teaches to the regents in those classes. So, regent’s level is not very challenging for a smart kid. The issue is for kids like my DD13 who is very smart, but not a great writer. She’d do better in an honors level English class, not AP Lang. </p>
<p>This district does “track” in the math and science. Beginning in 7th grade you can start 1 year ahead in math and science. It is possible to “track” up in 8th grade, but after that, you are either on the regents or honors/AP “track” in math and science. In NY, unlike other states or schools, you have to take Living Biology and Chemistry honors before you can take AP Bio and AP Chem. The APs are 2nd year classes. Some schools, like our old PA school, put students directly into the AP science class without any science pre-req.</p>
<p>geogiel1 – Do students at your daughter’s school take Earth Science in 9th grade or do they go directly into Living Environment? At our HS the usual sequence is Earth Science, Living Environment, Chemistry, and then Physics/College-Level Biology/College-Level Environmental Science. At a neighboring school, however, kids can opt out of Earth Science and go directly to the Living Environment, Chem, Physics et al. sequence.</p>
<p>The regents sequence is Earth Science (9), Living Bio(10), Chem (11), Physics(12). In our school district Earth Science is a requirement. This is a school district policy, not a NYS policy. The advanced students begin Earth Science in 8th grade. So, they take EA honors (8th), Living Bio honors (9th), Chem honors (10th), and then in 11th and 12th they can take Physics (H), AP BIO, AP Chem, AP Environmental, Marine Science and a few other non-AP classes. This means they have to double up on sciences if they want to take AP classes and Physics. We don’t have AP Physics, only honors and regents. I’m a little relieved, since we can say “wasn’t offered!”</p>
<p>Our school is also very traditional in its blocking; science classes are 7 periods a week. You have to dedicate two periods out of 9 to one class. You have to be able to get them to “fit” together, which can be difficult. My DS12 wanted to take AP Bio and AP Environmental Science this year but was unable to get it to fit with his other AP classes. He opted to take Marine Science and AP Bio. Next year he will take Physics (H) and AP Environmental. He will not take AP Chem. I think this is a problem, but he really likes oceanography, marine science and environmental issues more than Chem. No matter what I say about “needing” to take AP Chem, he doesn’t want to take it.</p>
<p>geogirl1 – Just curious, why do you say your son “needs” to take AP Chem? Is he a prospective science major or are you concerned that he may not be positioning himself properly for admission to top colleges?</p>
<p>We’re dealing with something similar with D2. She wants to take environmental science, a dual enrollment course with the local CC senior year (our HS offeres no APs in the sciences) instead of Physics. While I think Physics will look better on her HS transcript she is adamant and, knowing she wants to study one of the humanities in college she wants the freedom to explore several dual-enrollment English options that might be precluded by taking Physics due to scheduling issues. I suppose she’ll be fine as she is not looking at the most selective colleges.</p>
<p>My son is a future science major, he thinks. If he were independently wealthy and didn’t have to worry about actually feeding and housing himself and a family in the future, he would study marine biology. He loves, loves, loves the biology/ecology of the ocean. There are really no jobs in marine biology. He loves the biology of the oceans, not the chemistry or other areas that could possibly lead to a career in the future. Maybe, if he were THE BEST in marine biology, he could become a professor (a career he doesn’t see himself in at the moment). Additionally, he has always thought that he would like to be doctor. So, he’s really looking at Med school. He will have to take chemistry in college and do very well. He won’t be as prepared as the other kids in the class who did take AP Chem. He is also looking at top 50 schools, not top 10, so he will need to have a great HS record. I think not taking AP Chem will put him at a disadvantage. My DS is very independent and will do what he chooses, regardless what I say. That’s probably better, anyway!</p>
<p>We are in VA now, and VA is like NC. There are 3 types of diplomas, and depending on which track will be the courses required. You can take AP or Honors or standards and that will have no bearing on the type of diploma you receive. What matters is the rigor of your course curriculum. Traditionally those that take the mins have decided from an early path (usually 11th) that college was not their goal. </p>
<p>For our children, it is not so much about honors and APs, just that I refuse BS classes to be there instead of a harder class…in oher words, they were not required 4 yrs of foreign language, but they all took 4 yrs. instead of 3 yrs and then home ec.</p>
<p>Geogirl, my D is a chem major at a very selective LAC. Her high school doesn’t offer AP Chem and she wasn’t sure she’d be prepared enough for college chemistry, since her regular chem course wasn’t very strong. She took an online AP Chem course that helped her a bit, but when she got to college she found that it wasn’t necessary. The chem department gave a placement test to every freshman who wanted to take chemistry and sorted them into one of three entry-level classes for the fall semester. They didn’t require students to have taken chemistry already; they just started wherever the students were. By spring, all the students were together in organic chemistry.</p>
<p>Calreader- What a great system. You have given me hope! DS is my oldest and I think I obsess more about him because of it. In my DS’s case, his school does offer AP Chem and he is choosing AP Enviro over it. CCers believe that AP Enviro is a “weaker” AP and so I’m concerned he will be seen as “less” by the schools he is considering. Of course, we will be looking for some FA too, so we would like him to be considered a strong student. I guess we will just have to wait and see.</p>
<p>I think the conventional CC wisdom is probably correct about how top colleges perceive AP Chem vs. AP Enviro. On the other hand, if your son is not entralled with chemistry and/or math now perhaps he’ll discover advanced biology is not his thing.</p>
<p>My eldest daughter fell in love with marine science from the time we introduced her to the ocean when she was 1 1/2 years old. She took every math and science course offered at her high school and did quite well in them. As I noted, we had no AP options but she took SUNY courses taught in the high school such as Microbiology, Anantomy and Physiology and Environmental Science in addition to the required NYS Regents sciences. She went off to a Top 35 LAC intending to major in biology with the idea of pursuing either a PhD. in that field or – like half her classmates – an MD.</p>
<p>2 1/2 years later my daughter reluctantly came to the conclusion that her passion is for the history of science and medicine, not the practice of same. Her evolution came about as she realized that higher mathematics and chemistry are integral to the study of bio or environmental science at the highest level. Although she has done well enough in math and chem she has never taken any pleasure from said study. She also hated the constraints of technical writing; she’s as much interested in the art of language as she is in its utility. Her reservations about a career in science were merely reinforced this semester at a well-regarded “study abroad” program in environmental science. While she has had no trouble keeping up with her counterparts from Carleton, Brown, Middlebury, Haverford, etc. she has concluded that she just cannot picture herself doing scientific research for the next 40 years.</p>
<p>I’m not at all suggesting your son will follow a similar path. All kids are different. Three years ago, however, we would have bet our house that D1 would be getting ready to apply to grad schools in bio or marine bio. Now she’s getting ready for the big push necessary for her to double major in history and biology. I think whichever course your son takes will give him plenty of college choices and a lot of room to explore and grow.</p>
<p>HDV51 - your daughter sounds so much like my son! He does well in math and chem, just has no passion for it, and would rather not study them. My husband is a cancer researcher and DS knows that is not for him. He also does not see himself in a “boring” med practice. He’s more of the “Doctor’s without Borders” kind of guy. He is a great writer and loves politics, but is not interested in law school because he doesn’t see that profession as “helping the world”. I think college will be a world opening experience for him. It will be interesting to see what he does finally decide what to do. Whatever it is, I’m sure it will be exciting and grand!</p>
<p>What does NY do for kids who want a vocational track in HS? Not everyone wants or needs to go to college? My NJ HS had a number of vocational tracks also–construction, agriculture, auto repair, machine/welding, beauty school, and office skills. These suited many kids very well.</p>
<p>I can’t speak for NYS, but I now when I was a kid NYC had a number of specialized vocational high schools - Clara Barton for nursing, Automotive High, Aviation High, Performing Arts (as distinct from Music and Art, which was more college prep focused), etc. I am pretty sure at least some of them still exist.</p>
<p>New York State decided a few years back that nearly everyone should get a college prep education and take at least five Regents exams: [Diploma</a> Requirements 2009-2010:CI&IT:NYSED](<a href=“http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/gradreq/2009GradReqDetails.html]Diploma”>http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/gradreq/2009GradReqDetails.html). There are a few exceptions still for getting a “local diploma”, but I believe even those may be phased out. That said, I know there is some vocational education provided usually through BOCES (Board of Cooperative Education Services) that serve multiple schools districts. It’s extremely confusing!</p>
<p>If that’s the case it is a waste of scarce money and time as well as belittling the aspirations of non-college going kids.</p>
<p>looking at the wiki for aviation high, they still provide an education to be certified maintenance tech, but 80% go on to college, esp in engineering.</p>
<p>Is a vocational HS track supposed to be one where you CAN’T go on to college?</p>
<p>36 </p>
<p>AFAICT, its just NYS using its long standing Regents tests to meet the current national requirements for standardized testing. Once you pass enough Regents tests, you get a “Regents” diploma.</p>
<p>You can always start at CC. Vocational students don’t take the math and science classes that most 4 year colleges require.</p>
<p>20% of aviation high students dont go to college, and AFAICT they DO become aviation maintenance techs.</p>
<p>What I am asking is, does three years of science and three years of math disqualify a HS from being considered a vocational track, even though it DOES teach a certifiable trade? That sounds like what you are saying. It does not make particular sense to me.</p>