Hey y’all, so I’m currently a freshman at Georgetown SFS studying International Politics but I’ve come to realize that the school might not be the best fit for me. First semester here in DC went relatively well and I had a group of people that I was hanging out with, but I’ve come to realize that I was really only friends with them out of convenience and necessity (considering the fact that I didn’t know anyone coming to Gtown). I’ve really tried branching out more this semester by joining a lot of clubs and stuff, but I still feel like the people here may not be the right fit for me. Over Presidents’ Day weekend, however, I visited one of my friends who goes to Furman (because I actually only live about 25 minutes from campus) and I really liked the school and thought the people there were really cool. During my senior year, I think I neglected considering Furman because it was so close to home and it didn’t have the same name recognition as Georgetown, but now I’m starting to rethink this opinion. I truly think the smaller size of the student body, more “southern” feel (although not too much so), and Greek life at Furman would suit me well. I am apprehensive, however, about how difficult it may be to transfer in as a sophomore and make new friends, and I’d also be giving up the opportunity to study International Relations at one of the best schools in the country for that field in DC, and I’m worried about whether I’d be able to pursue similar academic goals at Furman. So I have some conflicted feelings… Do any current students/transfers/parents have any advice? Also, is Fall Rush an option for non-freshmen? Thanks!
S transferred to Furman and graduated last year. Furman is a friendly place overall and he did not complain of being lonely. I did notice at graduation that his circle of friends did not seem as “tight” as his sister’s group at Grinnell appeared. As a parent, my views are obviously a parent’s perspective and not a student’s. I liked the Grinnell graduation much more-parents connected better, more emphasis on the celebration as a family. However, the schools are very different (Grinnell is tiny, very liberal and in the middle of nowhere). Furman’s graduation reminded me of a large school’s-more impersonal, football field march, not much showcasing of student talent, etc.
Probably the best part of Furman for my son was the faculty contact. The faculty was excellent and very helpful with his grad school applications. He completed a couple of independent studies which probably helped with his grad school apps. He feels he got a great education at Furman and, with the writing intensive courses he had at Furman, grad school writing has presented no challenges.
If you are into Greek life, I imagine you will have a ready made group at Furman. Socially, it would be an easy transition. I think leaving Georgetown is a difficult decision given the reputation and your major. Perhaps you could see how your second year goes and then transfer? I would also visit and talk with faculty at Furman about your career plans. Most are very open about sharing what graduates do and what summer internships are available.
Thanks for the thorough response! Did your son transition well socially when he transferred? And when did he transfer? Does anyone else have any opinions?
Georgetown is an incredible university and I am sure you would receive a world class education. Particularly with your major it would be hard to leave. That said, the political science major at Furman is fabulous. The professors are very involved with students and research opportunities abound. A unique feature at Furman is the Riley Institute which is lead by Dr. Richard Riley, past secretary of education under Bill Clinton. The group brings world leaders to Furman and presents many topics. Those involved with the Advancement team meet and have a chance to meet with the speakers. Another unique aspect is the relationship Furman has with China. Furman is the only undergraduate school that has students attend and report on APEC. I am pretty sure the students who are selected to attend are poli sci majors. Furman also has many, many students in D.C. working in the political arena if you’re considering that. Although I can only imagine Georgetown grads would easily dwarf the number of Furman grads there.
I find Furman to be very open and welcoming. My D is from the west coast and she found her “flock” pretty easily. Greek life is very inclusive in that it is not the stereotypical Greek scene. If you desire that road you will find your house. Rush is only in spring. Right after winter break. I think there are a handful of sophomores that rush each year. ZTA is forming a new chapter on campus this spring so they may have a recruiting opportunity in the fall. (I have no idea how that will look) My D does have a sorority sister that transferred spring of her freshman year and it seems she is quite happy.
Keep in mind that it is common for freshman to think about transferring in their first semester of school. Many students even fill out all the paperwork and are ready to hit the send button. Just take a little time to really think about your next move.
Best wishes in your decisions!
Both my Ds went to Furman, and I think it is a great school. But I would be careful about transferring because you had a fun weekend while visiting with friends at Furman. If you are interested in international relations, you are in a school and city that have more to offer in that area than Furmam and Greenville can. Any school can look great while visiting, especially with friends there to show you the fun social aspects. If you are seriously considering a transfer, see if you can sit in on some classes and talk to professors in Poli sci dept. Older D was a Poli sci major and went on to law school, and is now a public defender. She was on Furmans award winning mock trial team, and her education there served her well. Think about your post-graduation goals and be sure that you will get what you need academically from Furman to meet those goals.
Hi CLS,
My son transferred as a junior so he moved directly into the apartments at North Village. S is a musician and he was placed in an apartment with other musicians (the residence life folks were wonderful with matching him up). These guys are still his friends and all have moved on to grad or med school. He originally planned to transfer to UNC-Chapel Hill but chose Furman over it as he felt the social transition would go easier due to the housing arrangement and the smaller size of the school. S was not into Greek life but quickly assimilated with the musicians and some of the groups he joined at Furman (environmental issues, service groups-can’t remember exactly what they were). It worked well for him to transfer as a junior. He had finished many of his gen eds and had given the school he left another year to see if the fit improved. S is not a really outgoing person so I think his quick adjustment to Furman speaks well for the environment. He loved downtown Greenville and has a lot of fun. He is now at Carnegie Mellon and has fond memories of Furman.
Good luck with your choice!
Thank you everyone for your kind and helpful responses! I think my plan for now will be to go ahead with the application process, continue to try my best here at Georgetown, and make a decision in May. I also plan on revisiting the school over Easter break (because we get that week off since Gtown is Jesuit). But I do have a couple more questions… Is it possible to double major at Furman? If so, I would to try Poly Sci and either Econ or Philosophy. Also, I’ve begun to prescribe to theory that it really doesn’t matter where you go for undergrad as much as it does for grad school, and that undergrad is where you go to be happy and be the best student that you can possibly be. That being said, how do you think this would apply to Furman? Do people with good enough grades often end up at Ivy law schools? Also, can someone speak to Furman’s study abroad and summer internship opportunities (particularly those one would find on Capitol Hill). Thanks again!
Yes, you can go to a t14 (top 14 law schools, which include ivys) from Furman or just about anywhere, if you have a high GPA and LSAT. These 2 scores are what matter for law school admission. I think currently there is a Furman student at Harvard law, and several more in a top 20 school.
Furman has a good diverse selection of study away programs. For many, the cost is what you would pay for the semester for tuition room and board, and can be paid with the loans or scholarships that you would get normally. Older D, the Poli sci major, did the fall in Belgium trip. She worked for a member of European Union parliament and took classes at a university there. They went on weekend trips as a class and with small groups. I believe she ended up visiting 10 countries. That was a great experience. Younger D did a May X in Costa Rica. There is a Spring Washington D.C. Experience, but I don’t know much about it. Here is the list of current study away opportunities:
https://studyaway.furman.edu/index.cfm?FuseAction=Programs.ListAll
CLSCCES, I did a study abroad program with Furman, took a few classes at Furman on campus and went to an Ivy law school with at least one person from Furman.
I think that you’d be making a major mistake by transferring.
Georgetown is a different caliber of school than Furman. Georgetown classes are likely much more rigorous than Furman ones are (speaking from experience as having taken classes at Furman and elsewhere). The Georgetown name on a resume will open many doors for you in the future; the Furman name will not as much. Unless you plan to settle in SC, the contacts that you make at Georgetown will probably be more valuable in the future than the ones that you’d make at Furman, since Georgetown would have higher-profile alumni, spread more nationally.
Plus, Georgetown has a lot of students who end up going to grad school at the Ivies; Furman has just a few, here and there. (Lots of schools, like Furman, have 1 or 2 students per year who end up at places like Harvard, as every school has a few students with those capabilities, but that speaks to the quality of the student, not the quality of the undergraduate school).
If you want to go to school in the South, with a Furman-style feel, transfer to maybe Wake Forest or W&L; those are well-ranked, although I’d consider Georgetown above both. But don’t take a big step down from the Georgetown-quality education and name that you’ve gotten already. Don’t give up all you’ve worked so hard for already.
Life involves transitions. Each time when you move someplace new, it takes time to get adjusted. I recall being very lonely the first semester of grad school and when I moved to a new city after grad school. Then I ended up loving each experience. Just give Georgetown some time.
Also, going somewhere for undergrad to be happy? If you plan on an Ivy graduate school, then I don’t think so. Undergrad will need to be somewhere where you get great grades and a good name on a resume, and doing that simply involves some tradeoffs.
People in South Carolina are very friendly and welcoming. You can spend your post-school life there and enjoy it to the hilt. But for college (and grad school), which will impact your career and life for the rest of you life, make the tradeoff and stay at Georgetown (or a peer school).
HappyAlumnus, I think you’re putting way too much weight on prestige and name recognition than is necessary, especially for undergrad. The reason Georgetown has more people that go on to big name grad schools is 1) They’re simply a bigger school and 2) Smarter, more motivated students tend to go there in the first place. Therefore, if two people who are equally smart and motivated go to Gtown and Furman, they’ll probably end up with about the same grad school opportunities. You yourself said that the fact that Harvard has fewer Furman grads isn’t a testament to the quality of academics.
I understand that life involves transitions and I’ve gone through transitions before, but Gtown quite simply is not a good fit for me, and it never felt right when I visited here during the application process - I put way too much weight on Georgetown’s prestige than I should have, and ignored the fact that it didn’t seem like a place where I’d be happy.
And I think you’re wrong - one’s undergrad years are about maturing, finding who you are, making lifelong friends, being happy, and having fun. There’s no doubt that academics are very important, but they’re not the only thing and I know that I can get a stellar education at Furman regardless. I’ll admit, prestige and academics are incredibly important for grad school, but I should go to an undergrad where I’m both academically challenged AND have room to be happy and have fun. I can always go to Gtown, Harvard, etc. for grad school if I do well in undergrad. Additionally, if I want to go to these prestigious grad schools for international relations, I can still take the classes and choose majors that those programs are looking for (e.g. Poly Sci, Econ, Philosophy, Math, History, FL).
Numerous studies have shown that the undergrad school one goes doesn’t really matter - it’s how you do there and the opportunities that you make for yourself there. This has been substantiated by my dean here at Georgetown. Also, I actually am considering Wake Forest but I know this time around that prestige shouldn’t be as big of a role in my decision.
What does everyone else think?
I think that the suggestion of HappyAlumnus to investigate both Wake Forest and Washington & Lee is a good one; there may be other schools that you might want to consider, at least if money and/or grades will not be an object: UNC-Chapel Hill and UVa. Also, since you’re already in D.C., what about G.W. or American (or will there be the same issues with friends/fit)?
I think W&L is way too isolated for me - I feel like I’d be suffocated. UNC and UVA would be too big. And yeah, GW and American would pretty much be in the opposite direction of where I’m trying to go (i.e. a smaller southern school with more likeminded people where I know I’d be comfortable and able to find my niche).
CLSCCES, you’re welcome to call me “wrong” and any other thing you want. Of course, people pick schools depending on various criteria, and there’s no inherently right or wrong reason to pick a college.
You should note, though, that I questioned going somewhere for college to be happy if your goal is to make it to an Ivy League graduate school, which is what I did. If your goal is to make to an Ivy League graduate school or the like, or if you end up wanting to work at McKinsey, Bain, etc., again, you’d be making a mistake in transferring to Furman.
I can say with a high degree of confidence that nobody has ever transferred from a school at Georgetown’s ranking to Furman (unless the transfer was for financial or family reasons) and then gone to Harvard for business, law or medical school, at least. When I was in graduate school at Harvard, the only people who had transferred colleges had transferred up the US News ranking scale, not down.
It’s one thing to be super-sharp and start out at Furman (due to parents wanting a child to be close to home, a scholarship, not being ready for going to a larger school far away, etc.) and then do well and go to Harvard, but to start out at a top school and then transfer to Furman out of a desire for fun and “cool” people just shows a focus in life that doesn’t generally result in going to an Ivy League graduate school or the like.
If you want to end up at an Ivy League graduate school (or the like), then your focus has to be having the best grades and the best resume. Your focus cannot be to be around “cool” or “like-minded” people and “friends”, or to be “happy”. You can have one focus but not the other, if your goal is that type of graduate school.
Also, a transfer like this will need to be explained on graduate school applications and to employers at some point, and it won’t look great.
If people jn a graduate school admissions office (or an employer’s HR office outside of the Southeast) see your resume, then they will assume either that Georgetown was too academically difficult for you, or that you were homesick or couldn’t adapt to the Northeast. Both are damaging assumptions that will result in closed doors for you. If you have the opportunity to interview and explain the reasons for the transfer- having fun, being around “cool” people, etc.- then that will do even more damage, so hopefully you’ll be prepared with a better excuse.
Call me lecturing or whatever, but there you have it.
And I am NOT condemning Furman. I have had plenty of family members and friends graduate from there, and there are many wonderful and sharp people there. I am condemning not making the most of opportunities and instead focusing on things other than academics and expecting that academic doors will somehow then open–they won’t.
- What is the basis of your reasoning? Every single one of your claims has been conjecture (well, in your words, an unproven “high degree of confidence”). When you actually look at the data, the most important criteria for grad and law admissions is GPA, LSAT/GRE scores, personable recommendations, work experience, and the courses you took (not so much for law school, more for grad programs in IR)
- When grad schools receive my transcripts they will see that I actually made a 4.0 my first semester (which I anticipate to also receive this semester), so obviously they will see I didn’t leave because Georgetown was too academically difficult
- I don’t see where you’re getting your claims that you need a prestigious undergrad to go to a prestigious grad school
- I can have drive, focus, and motivation without being a drone that focuses only on academics (I’m actually planning to triple major if I transfer because of all the credits I’ll be bringing in)
- I think that I’ll be able to quite easily explain to admissions committees and employers why I transferred without running into closed doors – it simply wasn’t the right fit for me for my undergrad experience, it was too big for me, I had gone about the college application process the wrong way, and I wanted a more liberal arts focused college education – now, however, I’m ready to buckle down and focus on exclusively IR and I know “School X” is right for me and the career I want to pursue
- I went from a liberal arts college (ranked more highly than Furman, but definitely not as prestigious as Georgetown) to Harvard Law School. The basis of my reasoning is my own experience in that process and in my career afterwards, and all that I learned from others who were my classmates at both schools and colleagues afterwards, including people who worked in the Harvard Law School admissions office.
Have you been through the grad/law school admissions process? If not, why are you so sure that a transfer to Furman won’t affect it? If that kind of transfer won’t affect it, why don’t more people do those types of transfers? Every single factor that you mention can be affected by the transfer that you seem intent on doing, and not in a good way (except GPA).
Also, a college name on a resume doesn’t stop once you’re admitted into law or grad school. Once you’re in law school, the second most important factor in law firm hiring, after law school grades, is prestige of one’s undergraduate institution.
And let me repeat, more strongly: I am sure that nobody has EVER voluntarily gone from a Georgetown-level school to Furman and then gone to Harvard for law, business or medical school. (Making a forced transfer due to family or financial requirements could be an exception, although I figure that such cases would be very rare.) Not a single person I knew at Harvard did a transfer like you’re proposing. Why are you so confident that you’ll break that trend?
- Yes, grad schools that see your transcript will realize that you made a 4.0. They’ll then wonder even more why you chose to transfer from Georgetown to Furman. They’ll assume, even more strongly, that you couldn’t adapt to a large school in the Northeast- or perhaps away from your hometown- and question you even more and be even more reluctant to let you in.
If I’m in the Yale Law School admissions office and see your application, I’ll think, “well, Georgetown let in CLSCCES, and CLSCCES is clearly smart, but after a year CLSCCES went back home, so something must have gone really wrong. Let’s not take a chance on that happening again, as Yale and Georgetown have a lot of similarities; let’s let in someone else who’s otherwise an equally strong candidate and who shows that s/he can thrive in a new environment, particularly one like ours.”
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You don’t need a prestigious undergrad to go to a prestigious grad school, but your goals and values-being around “cool”- and, even more disturbingly, “like-minded” people (your words)-show that you aren’t focused on building the perfect resume at the expense of other things. That’s your choice, but again, making that kind of choice will not get you into the best graduate program. Again, see the last paragraph of #1.
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If you have a ton of drive and motivation, then you should be looking to transfer up the US News chain. There are a few smaller schools with Furman-type student bodies that you could be looking at that are up there in the rankings.
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As someone who hires people and who has gone through the law school application process, I strongly disagree with you. Again, see the last paragraph of #2.
It’s not unheard of to transfer, and it’s certainly common for a school not to be a “fit”. (My undergraduate college was not a fit at all for me, and I hated it with a passion.) It’s also common to transfer to an equivalent or more highly ranked school. So if you transfer to Wake Forest, Duke or maybe a liberal arts college that’s highly ranked, it’s easily explainable and you can come out fine.
But to transfer from a school ranked #29 on the list of “Smartest Students” to the one you’re considering (you can see its ranking for yourself: http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-colleges-in-america-2014-10), particularly when it’s in your hometown and for the reasons that you’re giving, is going to damage you if you then plan to aim high for graduate school, and particularly a graduate school outside of the Southeast. Don’t do it. If you do, at least get a full scholarship and explain the transfer that way.
Happy alumnus, I think you are being argumentative and a little heavy handed with you advice. And you honestly don’t have that much first hand knowledge about Furman as evidenced by a post on another thread stating it is a dry school when it no longer is. Heck, half the people who post about Furman on CC still think it is Baptist when it split from the Southern Baptist Convention over two decades ago.
CLSCCES, most of the people who post here are either Furman students or parents of Furman students, and can give you a more thorough and intimate knowledge about what the school does and does not offer. I have had a student at Furman for 8 out of the last 9 years. One went to law school and is now a public defender - which was her choice and she is passionate about it, she did not desire to go into big law. My other daughter was accepted to 3 med schools and will be attending one in the fall.
You can get to Harvard, or any other t14 from a variety of colleges, not all of them highly ranked:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/undergrads.html
http://www.thecollegesolution.com/surprise-where-harvard-law-students-got-their-undergrad-degrees/
There are close to 200 undergraduate institutions that the students at Harvard law come from each year, sometimes even Furman.
What I’m saying is transferring doesn’t destroy your future. If you continue to make a high GPA and a high LSAT, you will be fine. I do think you should try to see if you can make it work at Georgetown, because it is an excellent school in a great location, but being happy DOES matter, and you should enjoy your undergraduate experience.
dheldreth and CLSCCES, sorry, I did come across perhaps too strongly.
My experiences with Furman were 25 years ago. I did a semester abroad and took classes at Furman both during the summer and the school year, all as part of Furman’s regular undergraduate programs.
Back then, Furman was ranked in the 30’s by US News; now it’s in the 50’s, so I am confident that my assertions about academics are valid, however. My assertions about law school admissions are also valid. I stand behind what I’ve said in this thread, although I should have been gentler.
I’ll say no more, as I don’t expect that my advice will be taken.
Thank you HappyAlum for your apology. If I were to work after undergrad either abroad or perhaps in NYC or DC, wouldn’t this dispel a grad schools reservations that I might have a difficult time transitioning and/or studying and living in the northeast?
I hate to be a nuisance, but can someone please speak to this? Thanks!
If you think that working abroad after getting your undergraduate degree might possibly help, then why don’t you just stay at Georgetown for your sophomore year, then take your junior year abroad from Georgetown? That way you will reduce by one year the time that you have remaining at Georgetown; you can finish your undergraduate degree program at a highly respected university with one of the leading programs in IR; you will have practical experience in working abroad; and you will have shown any graduate program that looks at you that you can transition on multiple levels.