transferring out of west point.

Colleges and Universities A-Z Military Academy - West Point
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<p>Sorry you misunderstand totally the point I was trying to make. And to an extent Ann, who I can't speak for but surmised from her post. There is nothing wrong with going to one of the academies and finding out after a period of time that it's just not what you wanted and you want to leave. It happens, it's anticipated, and quite well understood. </p>

<p>Feeling this way and wanting to leave within 4 weeks however implies a different set of reasons. Usually that the cadet had no idea that the academy was going to be this way. Maybe they didn't understand the description of academy life. Maybe they never really wanted to come in the first place and they were semi-pursuaded by their parents or family. Maybe they couldn't correlate the fact that it's a MILITARY academy and as such means you are in the military and they can't handle that. Things like being homesick are going to be the same at any school shy of the local college where you commute each day. Maybe some just aren't mature enough yet to move away from home and go to any school, let alone a military academy. </p>

<p>To get into any of the academies shows that you are above average educationally, motivationally, goal driven, etc... We're not talking about someone who joins the military because they had no other choices. ANY applicant who can get into the academy could have definitely gotten into many other traditional colleges and universities.</p>

<p>Anyway, we aren't going to agree on this subject. That is for sure. This young person needs to stand on their own 2 feet and make a decision. Asking how is not a question you ask here. That is a question you ask those as the academy. It's quite simple; "I'm not quite cut out for this place and I want to quit. What's the next step"? Bringing up such posts in an open forum only leads to speculations and is not the right place to get advice. Hopefully he will get what he's looking for. Later... Mike....</p>

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<p>These forums are a great resource for candidates. That is the main reason I post here. Pyoo has great resources at WP to help him and I hope he has found them. The decision to quit is a personal one, and one only the cadet can make. My posts were not a condemnation of pyoo, just a reflection on general principles. Candidates need to know what they are getting into and go for the right reasons. Pyoo sounds like a determined young man who will be a success no matter what he chooses to do, and I wish him well.
Unfortunately, these forums have become battlegrounds lately with posters determined to "win the debate". It's a pity because it distracts from the valuable content of the diverse opinions and experiences that are shared.</p>

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<p>Don't change the parameters and then tell someone they are silly. There is a huge difference between applying and getting on the plane. There are many, most actually, who do not know the extent of the finances when they are applying and don't really care. I suppose they know that it is "free" but expect ancillary costs and certainly do not expect a salary. It is the least of thier concerns. I have had several candidates tell me that, absolutely, yes, they will accept NAPS. Their, or their parents, following question is; "how much will it cost."</p>

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<p>USNA69:" When they reach out for help, they do not need "reflection(s) on general principal" to further enforce their "unworthiness".</p>

<p>Nowhere have I said or implied that pyoo is unworthy or a failure - that is your interpretation - and a poor one. Deciding to leave or stay takes an enormous amount of courage. Neither is an easy decision.</p>

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<p>I've been following this thread, and it definitely seems to have strayed away from the original topic... It's great to debate about what should have/could have/would have been done, but in the end, it comes down to pyoo's personal experiences and feelings resulting from these.</p>

<p>And on a side note, I saw this quote from momof4 "He admits he knew what he was getting into."</p>

<p>I don't care who you are, NO ONE knows what they're getting into. No one. Obviously he didn't, just from his posts. That doesn't reflect poorly on him, it's just the way things are at the Academy.</p>

<p>Just my 2 cents from being here.</p>

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<p>Very, very true. You cannot really know what you are getting into. Prep schools, prior military experience, etc. helps, but isn't the same.</p>

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<p>Sorry for being away from this thread for a while.
i'm still at west point, and well, as you can guess my time is always being eaten up.</p>

<p>thank you for all the comments suggestions and advice. i have taken into account everything that you have all said. your right. there are just weeks at west point where everything absolutely sucks and all you want to do is quit and give up. thats where i was when i wrote this thread, but it's true what they say if you stick it through the rougher times, it starts too look a little better. i've decided (for now) that i will stick it through at least until the end of the year. partly because i want to wait and see if i start to get accustomed to this place, partly because i DO want to take advantage of the oppurtunities they have here, and partly because--well, frankly, i have no where else to go. i've contacted other civilian schools and they will not let me transfer in, so i have to finish out the year before i can apply anywhere else.</p>

<p>what you have all said about leaving this place or staying is all true. for those who think many leave prematurely, sure, there are plenty of plebes in my own company even who are packing up and leaving. since my time here i've known/seen at least a dozen quit. please do not be mistaken though, these cadets do not leave because "they didn't know what they were getting themselves into." trust me, i did as much research and i asked as many people as i thought humanly possibly, and even during beast i knew exactly what we were going to be doing that day because I had known so much about it already. i spent hours and hours deciding where to go to college, i spent hours and hours researching west point and seeing if this was truly the place for me. so i knew as much as HUMANLY possible to know before coming here. but like marines4me says, NOBODY KNOWS what this place is like UNTIL YOUR HERE. you can watch videos, pictures, read hundreds of stores, hear a million things, but you will never ever know what its like until you go through it. sure, everyone goes through life changing experiences, but west point changes your life in a different way. its almost impossible to explain, and like i said, nobody can know until they go through it. beast wouldn't be half as hard as it was if it didn't put the mental stress on you. yea its hard physically, and its annoying, but the stress they put on you mentally with the little things that the outside world things nothing of is what gets you the most.</p>

<p>in the end, i came here because of many reasons--though one that i admit really did push me was the free education. yea, i get it, we are paying for it with our lives, but c'mon--
if someone can't afford a 200,000 dollar education at boston college, a free education at west point looks damn good, no matter what the consequences of that might be. yea i know ive joined the profession of the arms, and that money shouldn't have been an issue, but the bottom line is that IT IS. no matter how you twist it, no matter what you say, IT IS. and west point and the army knows it too, they market that aspect as much as they market the fact that this place is a place to develop army leaders. so far, this place has put me on an emotional rollercoaster that has driven me crazy. what i've taken away from this place is a new appreciation for all the things i have taken granted for. all the hell i've been through makes me percieve life in a whole new light, something i never would have gotten if i never came here--so even if i leave this place next year, i will always carry by my side an appreciation for what I've gained from West Point.</p>

<p>for now im here because i have nowhere else to go. it's a strange thing. everyone from the outside world who sees west point thinks of it in a completely different way that cadets look at it. cadets are like a different species. it's that difficult to explain.</p>

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<p>You have courage and brains, pyoo323. Finish one day, then one more, and soon the semester will be over. You can do it. Of course, only those who are at West Point can understand what you are going through. Thank you for letting us know you are still there!</p>

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<p>pyoo, I think we've all been through what you're going through to some extent. I cant preach to you about what the right choice is, but I think in this day and age, as a current platoon leader in the army, the only thing that should really matter is if you WANT to lead troops in combat. The soldiers in this Army deserve that from their leaders, you owe it to them. Put yourself in downtown Baghdad in a few short years--trust me, it will go by fast--and think of what you would do if an EFP tears through one of your 1114s and four 18-20 year old kids from Dallas, Ohio, Montana, or wherever, get torn to pieces, never to live again. Some may have a wife and kids, the others just their proud parents back home. Or picture yourself shot through the neck on a rooftop by a sniper, paralyzed for the rest of your life, as happened to one of my friends last year. That is the type of stress you will be under, and if that's not what you want, there is nothing wrong with that, in fact, you are a better person for recognizing that and coming to terms with who you are. This is not the Army of the 90s; it is an Army involved in a brutal war, perhaps the most frustratingly deadly conflict we've been in. People die, and if you stay in this business, you will know some who end up sacrificing it all, I guarantee it. </p>

<p>I know West Point sucks man, and I know what you are going through is hard as hell, but I plead with you to sit back for a second, imagine yourself a few years down the road as an Old Grad, fighting in Iraq, and really look inside and ask "is that what I want?" If it is, and I hope that's the case, more power to you, because the Army needs leaders. But if you realize that the Army is not what you want, you want the education, please dont stay at West Point. Dont do that to these kids out here. I know it's hard man, I know it is, but please sit back and look at the endstate and the biger picture for a little while. Hit me up on PM if you want to talk outside the forum, I understand. Best of luck.</p>

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<p>pyoo,</p>

<p>Thanks for posting. I was wondering if you were still there. And thank you for your insight and honesty.</p>

<p>ScreamingEagle,</p>

<p>Extremely thought provoking comments. Thanks to you for all you're doing.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^^^^^^</p>

<p>everything momoftwins said - and ScreamingEagle as well.<br>
Pyoo - you will find your way -whatever direction that is - and you will go far. Keep your chin up, kiddo.</p>

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<p>Eagle is dead on accurate. If the poster doesn't think he is army leadership material; especially when it's important such as after graduation when he's leading troops in the middle east; then he shouldn't stay. I know it's a hard decision, but he has to make it. Staying in because the education is free and he has no other place to go is simply wrong. It's wrong for him and if he stays long enough that he owes the Army a committment to active duty, then it's wrong for the troops he will be leading. </p>

<p>Forget whether others know how hard it is at WP or not. Forget whether they know what you are going through. What matters is whether or not you think that you and the army are a good fit and match. If not, then you need to leave. If you think that you can take on the responsibilities, and you want to, then you should stay. There are way too many people who accept appointments to the various academies all for the wrong reason. Free education, a job, etc... are not reasons to go to the academies. They are benefits of going to the academy, but they shouldn't be the reason for going. You go to WP or the other academies because you want to be in the military, you want to lead soldiers, sailers, airman; you want to serve your country; etc... That's why you accept an appointment to the academy. In return, they will provide you the benefit of a free education, medical/dental, paycheck, job waiting for you, travel, etc....</p>

<p>You owe it to the potential soldiers that you might possibly command some day, as well as the tax payers, to do some soul searching and decide what you want. Then you need to make up your mind to see it through. If you don't think the military is for you, then you need to leave. Later... Mike....</p>

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<p>Christcorp, before we get off on another hypothetical tangent with your not-so-valid suppositions, why don't we try to support pyoo in his decision making process rather than trying to imply that he has no business being there? You do not know the facts.</p>

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<p>There are no hypothetical not so valid suppositions. My statement is very valid and very accurate.</p>

<p>Also, there is no implication that pyoo doesn't have any business being at WP. That is 100%, totally, without exception, his choice and decision to make. Only he can decide whether WP is the right place for him or not.</p>

<p>All I'm trying to express is that if doesn't think that it's the right place for him, then he shouldn't let anyone convince him that he should stay. As I mentioned earlier, I definitely think he should stay at least for the first year. This way he can know better if he's just hitting a bump in the road, or if the academy isn't right for him. If he feels that it isn't the right place, then he should leave. If he then feels that it is what he wants for his future, then he should stay.</p>

<p>And it is true that many people apply to the academies because of the benefits they are offered instead of the ultimate goal of serving as a military officer. Plus, Pyoo is NOT a child. He is now an adult. He is a young man who now needs to make decisions for himself and to live with his decisions. It's great and admirable for him to ask for advice and opinions. But people need to not treat him as though he was their 17 year old son. Take the emotions out of the comments and suggestions and it becomes very simple. If after the first year, he feels that WP is something he cares about and is passionate about finishing and serving as a military officer, then continue on. If after a year, he doesn't feel that WP is what he's looking for with his future, then get out.</p>

<p>No one has disagreed or questioned his feelings or position about being at WP. The only think, that almost everyone has agreed on, is that getting out after only a couple of weeks is the wrong choice.</p>

<p>I respect pyoo for getting to WP. I respect him for deciding to give it some time. That is a very good and mature decision. If however he has second thoughts of WP after the first year, he shouldn't feel bad about leaving. Shouldn't feel obligated. Shouldn't feel pressured by friends/family/posters to stay in. He needs to do what he thinks is best for him. That is what is best for all concerned. Remember, pyoo is the one who said that a main reason for staying was because of the free education and that he had no other place to go right now. That's fine. That's why I suggest finishing the first year. Not just the semester, but the entire first year. Then, if it works out. Great! If not, get out and move on. He won't owe anything and he'll have a good perspective on what he does want. He's an adult. He can make up his own mind. Later... Mike...</p>

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<p>Heh Pyoo, here it is almost 3 weeks since you first posted. That's almost 10% of the time for your plebe years. Ask some more questions and you will be at the halfway mark. Seems trite, but I think its really profound and that's how you get through.</p>

<p>Free education? Well c'mon, as you say - I bet it doesn't look so free now, does it? I figure West Point has to be just about the most expensive college going, and I am not even at the "life at risk" stage in thought.</p>

<p>Talking with someone I know who is in plebe year, my advice is you have got to do the two years before commitment. It seems that's the system and has worked pretty well for last 200 years. Now that makes West Point one hell of a hard ass prep school, but you will find that if you have even reasonable marks you will have your choice. You have to take responsibility in that you don't know what the heck your talking about Pyoo, at this point, and feelings of dread and not liking something is not knowledge.</p>

<p>If you split now you have all sorts of rabbit holes to dive into and everyone will provide psychobabble to sincere support to make you able to live with the decision publicly. But Pyoo, it is the look you have to give yourself in the mirror before bed that counts and there you will be on your own. You have proven character to have gotten into the place - it is time to apply it and honor yourself. If you really thought you were gonna get a free education, that was a major character flaw and well, they gotchya - it aint free. If you don't buck up you will pay the price of self respect which is a hell of a lot more than $200,000.</p>

<p>Buckle down, do the two years and then go on for your third and graduation or off to just about any college you choose - the Army feels there is nothing but honor in the doing so and so will everyone else. Leave now, you will leave your self respect challenged and also might be able to get into the satellite of your state college system, maybe. But if you really are there because you tried to pull a fast one for a free education - better split now as it is always best to correct from a con or attempt at pulling a fast one or attempt at any large act of perosnal dishonesty as soon as possible. There is no free lunch. Going to West Point for a free education is like becoming a priest in the church because you understand you get free meals.</p>