Travel to Europe .. problem

Parents Forum
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<p>Anyone have advice? One of my son's teachers is leading a tour to Europe this summer for EF Tours. I signed him up, paid, and then with no notification, the teacher changed the dates. The trip leaves more than a month after it was orginally scheduled and costs $250 more because this is the peak season. </p>

<p>My son has applied for the TASP program and if he gets accepted, he should go to that. We can't get a refund on this tour without losing money ($245 if we dropped it right now) and I want him to go on this great tour. I just don't want him to have to choose between the two and I don't want the big problem of having to lose cash.</p>

<p>Frustrated and a bit angry.</p>

2

<p>Frankly, I would give up the $245. I have travelled to Europe a lot, including with my kids on family vacations. I also have seen a lot of information about tours that students can go on, and I have seen groups of American students in Europe on such tours.</p>

<p>For what one pays to send one kid on a group tour, one can take a family of 4 on a family trip to Europe in which you follow your own schedule and see exactly what you want to do. One also is far more likely to be able to interact with Europeans if you are traveling as a family than if a kid is traveling with a large group of Americans. The kids on those group tours tend to hang out together and travel in large, noisy clumps that drives the Europeans away.</p>

<p>My thoughts are that you'd be better off going to Europe with your son at a time that's convenient to both of you.</p>

3

<p>Ditto, Nsm. One of these days I'm going to start a thread on the Cafe for places you must go with your kids to see that you've never heard of before (as well as those you have heard of). And we both know that the student trips will never see those places. One of these days.....</p>

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<p>Forgive me for being uneducated on this. Your advice sounds wonderful. This trip is 13 days and goes to Germany, Austria, Czech Republic and Hungary. The cost is $2400 at this point including taxes, breakfast and dinner each day. I would to go to Europe with my son. Do you think $2400 would give us both a good trip?</p>

5

<p>Ditto from me, too. We've had the reverse experience. Groups of kids from France and Italy being hosted by our school. My French niece accompanied one group to NY and reported, in great disgust, that all the girls wanted to do was shopping. They went to Saks, Bloomingdale's, etc.. and never went near a museum or the Statue of Liberty or any other site that did not have to do with shopping.</p>

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<p>Definitely! For $2,400, you could have a great trip and could do exactly what you wanted to do. Remember that when you are sending kids on a group trip, part of your money has to cover the chaperones' costs.</p>

<p>In addition, in general, group travel involves staying at higher class hotels than you would need to travel with as a family. Groups have to stay in hotels that are large enough to handle groups. In general, these are the pricier big name chains.</p>

<p>That money also has to cover restaurant meals at the restaurants that are also large enough to handle groups. That rules out the smaller places where the food may be cheaper, and frankly, a lot more delicious than the food produced for the masses.</p>

<p>A few years ago, my husband and I took our 2 sons for, I think, a 13-day trip to Europe. We landed in Paris, spent a couple of days there, then rented a car and drove to Barcelona, (spending a day in a low cost French hotel along the way). We spent several days in Barcelona, then drove to Italy, spending a night in Provence along the way. We spent the night in Italy, then headed back to Paris, spending a night in the alps along the way. We spent a couple more days in Paris, then flew back to the states. The cost for the 4 of us including plane tickets was about $2,500.</p>

<p>We got our tickets cheap on Priceline. (You name your price, departure city and dates, and they find the tickets for you. If this worries you, it is still far enough in advance that you should be able to find good deals to Europe particularly if it's before the high season, which begins about June 23.).</p>

<p>I have not been to Eastern Europe, so can't tell you personally about travel there, though I hear that it is very low cost.</p>

<p>If you simply would like to get to Europe, I suggest Spain because the airfare is lower than to other parts of Europe, and the cost of living also is low. My older S and I went to Malaga and Granada about 6 years ago, and stayed in a hotel in Malaga that was right by the Mediterranean. We had a large window that looked directly onto the sea. The cost was around $60 a night. There were plenty of restaurants on the street, and we could walk to tourist areas such as a nice Picasso museum. We could take a bus to a Phonician-built fortress.</p>

<p>Afterward, we took a bus (nice, comfortable, luxury type bus) to Granada and spent about 3 days there in a hotel we had made reservations at after finding it in one of the travel books such as "Spain on $50 a day." It was clean, well located so we could walk to the major tourist attractions. We opted for a shared bath (S was paying for that part of the trip, and he was cheap). It was clean, and we seemed to be the only people using it. I think it was about $50 a night. Having a private bath would have been perhaps $15 a night more.</p>

<p>My advice is to check out travel books. I love Rick Steves' guides, the Frommers' guides and the Lonely Planet guides. You can make your own reservations on the Internet -- cheaper than using a travel agent.</p>

<p>If you don't feel comfortable traveling to a country where the native language is not English, you can travel to England, etc., but I will warn you that prices are very high in England. </p>

<p>I strongly suggest planning to go to only one or two cities or countries. This will give you time to recover from jet lag and to appreciate being in another country. If you rush from place to place as probably will occur in the 13-day group trip your child is scheduled for, things end up being a big blur. It's nice to have the time to relax and truly appreciate your new surroundings and to be able to linger on the things you enjoy.</p>

<p>It's also very special to have this kind of experience with your kids. They are at a wonderful age in which to share this kind of experience. Why let the chaperone have all of the fun?</p>

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<p>Hold on folks, have you been to Europe since the dollar's free fall? I would really question whether $2400 would give 2 a reasonable 13 day trip, especially in peak season. The cheapest airfares alone in peak season would be more than half that amount. 12 nights at a cheap hotels, and I mean cheap, would be $100/each. Then food, admissions, etc. So if you are willing to do a VERY shoestring trip with no luxuries, very basic hotels and inexpensive meals, you might get away with several hundred dollars over the $400, but be ready for some hole in the walls!</p>

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<p>Both NSM and Kirmum are right. Traveling as a group allows for discounts that are not available to individuals, but also greater flexibility, so it can be a wash. But the dollar's decline has to be factored in. May be the additional cost is a sign of further increases?</p>

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<p>Also, just a quick thought. If your paid the $245 deposit and THEN the teacher changed the dates and cost, and is telling you that the $245 is non-refundable, well . . . no way in h**l would I accept that. You paid a deposit for a certain trip. That trip no longer exists. You should get your money back, or raise a serious ruckus with the school if the teacher balks.</p>

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<p>The teacher seems not to have good information. He says we gets a refund. The EF Tours site says otherwise and they have the money.</p>

<p>Also, their site says dates may be changed up to 60 days.</p>

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<p>I agree with Iderochi! I would fight it. $245 is a lot to me.</p>

<p>However, we have a nice guest room, if anybody's interested..... :)</p>

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<p>I'm going to be going on a long term tour of europe this year with my hs english teacher and a group of students. I am sure that I am going to have an amazing time there and I will be getting a chance to explore a small part of the world before heading out to college. In the end this tour of 1.5 months will end up costing me 5000-6000 dollars but I think that this is a small price to pay for all of the things that my group will get to see</p>

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<p>Binx brings up a great idea. CC families could do trades. Visit me in Germany this summer we'll visit you in the States next. Imagine the trips! Your hosts are smart and interesting, and best of all, local!</p>

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<p>I have spent the last few summers in Paris, so I am very familiar with how much things cost and how to stretch one's budget.</p>

<p>With a quick check on the Internet just now, I found full furnished studio apartments in what looks like nice areas for 400 Euros for a week going from June 13-20. If a Euro=$1.30, that is $520 a week. I have rented apartments in Paris and greatly prefer that to a hotel because it's nice to not worry about noise from maids cleaning and it's nice to be able to cut costs by doing some cooking. One also gets more space in an apartment than in a hotel.</p>

<p>One can easily cook some meals in one's apartment, which cuts costs a lot. One can have a delicious French breakfast with a baguette, some cheese, fruit and coffee/milk for a very reasonable price, far cheaper than what the students would have paid for on a tour.</p>

<p>Lunch -- crepes or a sandwich at one of the many outside food vendors. That an a drink would come to about $5.50 US apiece. One can splurge more on dinner. One can have a decent dinner for $15-$20 apiece, possibly cheaper, depending on one's tastes.</p>

<p>The teen would probably get into most museums free or dirt cheap since, unlike what's the case in the US and museums, France is very generous with its students! </p>

<p>If one likes walking tours filled with interesting history, one can have English language walking tours through Paris Walks for 10 Euros (about $11.30) for adults, 7 Euros (about $9.00) for students. The are two two-hour tours offered each day that focus on different parts of Paris. I took about 8 with my teen son, and both of us loved them.</p>

<p>One could make a side day trips to Rouen (where Joan of Arc was burned at the stake) or Verseille or Giverney by taking the train. One also could spend all of one's time in Paris because there are plenty of things to do including things that are free such as strolling the lovely parks or standing in front of Sacre Coeur and gazing down at the twinkling lights of the city at nightfall. Not being in a group also means that if you or your kid want to shop, you can spend plenty of time shopping. Despite the rise in the dollar, one can find some nice, affordable things particularly at some of the large department stores.</p>

<p>I am using Paris as an example because I know that city well. </p>

<p>The Paris Metro is cheap, safe and convenient to just about everything. The only time I suggest that one take a taxi would be to and from the airport, and that would end up being about $100 roundtrip, max. There is subway service and bus service, but that can be difficult for a jet lagged person who hasn't been to Paris before.</p>

<p>I used Paris as an example because that's the city I know best. One could save more costs, however, by going to Spain. Malaga, where my son and I spent about 5 days is not known as a tourist city. I don't know why because there were lots of touristy things to do! We found it to be a lovely city even though the guidebooks seem to think it's ugly. We never saw anything ugly in it! </p>

<p>I fell in love, however, with Barcelona, which my whole family visited. We found a low priced pension that was walking distance from the major pedestrian walkway that lead to the sea. There was plenty of low priced food as well as things like mimes to enjoy along the walkway.</p>

<p>Keep in mind, too, that the $2,400 for your student's tour did not include all meals nor did it include souvenirs. Both can add up a great deal. </p>

<p>Anyway, check out some of the guide books and also look on some travel-oriented message boards to get tips about cheap fares and how to cut costs.</p>

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<p>I haven't been to Europe since last July, but the prices then were rising and they are probably worse now. When we plan a trip, a first SWAG (Scientific-Wild-A**-Guess) on the budget is about $100 per person per day PLUS transportation. So my first budgetary guess for the trip you are describing is $2600 plus transportation costs, which will vary depending on where you're coming from. </p>

<p>We always rent a car because we like a combination of cities and countrysides, but in many cities you do not want nor need a car. Trains in Europe are a good way to get from place to place, but then you are typically in high-cost city situations. But you can do both: For example, take a flight to Paris, train to the city, walk/taxi to the hotel (which you've researched on the internet), get familiar with the Metro to get around the city and see the essentials, take the train to Caen and rent a car there to go see some of the Normandy sights (American Cemetery, invasion beaches, etc) while you stay in a B&B. then return the car in Caen and take a train to Barcelona or wherever next. In other words, rent a car for side excursions, but don't pay for a rental (and avoid the hassles) when you're in the cities.</p>

<p>Some cities that are very inviting (I think) in terms of ease of getting around and language issues: Amsterdam, Edinburgh, Paris, ... Like someone mentioned above, London is incredibly expensive and I find it hard to get around (traffic-wise). Like the Metro in Paris, learning how to use the Underground in London is essential. Venice is another city VERY easy to fall in love with and get around (just stay away from the tourist hotels and especially the restaurants in the touristy part of town - PM me for a good suggestion there). Most other Italian cities I've visited have TONS of things to do and see, but have never thrilled me because of summer crowds. Some of our best memories come from Eastern Europe, but it's a little more of an adventure in that part of Europe. To me, people seem friendly all over Europe (well, except the Swiss border guards if you arrive at the border without a motorway permit on your car).</p>

<p>Anyway, I could go on and on, but perhaps together, with others on this thread, we could put together a neat itinerary.</p>

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<p>Wow, nsm, your description of Paris soundss like one of our trips. Yes, Yes, Yes to the apartment idea, even if it's only for a few days!!! Not only might it save money (esp on meals), but in an apartment, you feel more like a local and less like a tourist. You may have to learn just a tiny bit of the language though (at least have a book of phrases with you so you).</p>

<p>btw, if you are restricted to going in the summer, early June is by far the best time to go.</p>

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<p>Kirmum,
Are you in Germany? H is fluent in German and we may end up in Germany for part of this summer. He in particular knows the country well because he spent a year as a student in Heidelberg.</p>

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<p>I can't believe you like Malaga! Were you there really out of season? It has a VERY bad reputation in Europe in general because it's where bunches of 18 years olds go to get drunk cheaply, take drugs and trash the place. See also Ibiza, Torromolinos (The Brits favourite. I don't think any Spanish people actually live here) and Benidorm. To go to the last two, you have to fly to Malaga as anyway. I stayed in Torromolinos because it was cheap, and just drove miles every day to get away!</p>

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<p>If you join SERVAS International, a terrific organization, you can get housing virtually anywhere you wish to go FOR FREE, provided you plan in advance. And you will meet lots of interesting, wonderful people.</p>

<p>Also, if your son has any special interests, sometimes they can be pursued in Europe as well. Two years ago, my d. - singer and composer - got herself invited to sing in a cantata sponsored by our faith tradition (Quakers). I got to go along (and sing, too! at the Royal College of Music.) Through them, we found a free place to stay in London for an entire week, and spent a week at a Friends School practicing, at costs under $200 for each of us.) The total cost of our two-week trip to England, including airfares from the west coast of the U.S., was under $1400, and, through music, we made tons of friends.</p>

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<p>Cupcake,
Have you ever been to Malaga? My older S and I were there about 5 years ago. We left on Memorial Day and spent several days there. We saw no drunks, trash, roving groups of sailors, etc. What we did see were lots of families who clearly were residents of that city. They were strolling the beach and the streets. </p>

<p>My impression was that Malaga has the same reputation that Norfolk has in the US. I lived in Norfolk, however, for 2 years back in the 1980s, and never saw the problems that the city had been noted for. My impression was that the problems had been cleaned up, but the reputation lingered in people who hadn't been there in a long time.</p>

<p>I have not been to places like Torromolinos, but based on the pictures I have seen, I am not interested because it seems much too touristy for me. I liked Malaga because it was not touristy. The people there in general seemed to be the people who lived there. The Picasso musem was not crowded nor was the Phoenician fort. My S and I could stroll the main streets or along the beach and not be elbow to elbow with vendors or other tourists. </p>

<p>We had expected to stay in Malaga just long enough to recover from jet lag, but we liked it so much we stayed longer.</p>