Truth about Columbia SEAS (Engineering / Fu Foundation)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>This thread was made in response to many comments about the Coumbia engineering program i feel worth mentioning</p>

<p>1-Columbia engineering is not as selective as other top tier schools?
The acceptance rate at seas is 22% (2010). This may seem high; MIT's acceptance rate is 13% (2010).
Take this into consideration:
At seas 93% of the students are at the top 10% of their class, and at mit 96% of their students are at the top 10% of their class.
The interquartile range of sat scores of admitted seas students is [1440-1530] and for mit it is [1430-1570].<br>
These statistics between seas and mit students are are comparable.</p>

<p>Yes SEAS has a higher admisstion rate than other top teir engineering schools, however there is much greater self selectivity; look at the numbers.
If you think a 93% top ten percent student population and a [1440-1530] sat interquartile range is not selective, then yes SEAS is not selective</p>

<p>2-Columbia engineering is not a good school because it is not ranked that high?
The only thing I would like to say is that RANK is by NO MEANS a good indicator of how great a school is.<br>
ESPECIALLY WITH US NEWS RANK. I find it sad how so many people find US News rank as a fair indicator of a schools overall peformance.
<em>FOR THOSE WHO CARE WHY</em>
-US News uses a Peer Assessment Score and a Recruiter Assessment Score with determines a schools overrall score by .25 and .15 respectively. The scores they recieve have a WHOPPING 61% AND 27% VOLUNTARY RESPONSE BIAS respectively. (For statistic majors; yes its that bad)
-They also account Acceptance Rate as a factor, but as we have seen, acceptance rate is not a good indicator of how selective the college is.<br>
-They also count how Degrees Awarded are awarded; the larger the school, the better the score because they give out more diplomas
-They take into account Total Research Expenditures. That means the more money the school recieves the greater the score. They DO NOT poportionate expidentures/size of the school;larger schools always get a better grade because they recieve more money. ex: Columbia engineering moved up 10 ranks within the past year ONLY because they recieved a 200 million dollar gift to build a new research center. BY NO MEANS DOES THE 200 MILLION DOLLARS HAVE AN IMMEDIATE IMPACT ON THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION IN A ONE YEAR TIME SPAN; but US News doesnt seem to care.</p>

<p>Better details on how US News finds it score can be found at <a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/07eng_meth_brief.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/07eng_meth_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>BTW, columbia engineering is ranked top 20 if anyone wanted to know (US news 2007), not that it means much</p>

<p>3-Theres enmity between columbia college and seas students?
No. Not at all. The only dislike cc kids might have toward seas students are the fact that seas students ruin the curve in calculus classes. Thats about it. Most students dont even make a distinction
Some however make jokes albiet friendly:
CC: i got a 90 on my calc test! how did u do?
SEAS: i got a 100
CC : pshh well at least i get laid
seas: -___-</p>

<p>4-When people talk about how great columbia university is, they usually refer to columbia college and not seas?
Neither. Columbia college nor seas contribute mostly to the overall fame of columbia university. Its the amazing GRADUATE schools that actually REALLY make columbia university shine, not the undergraduate. However, when people talk about undergraduate columbia university, they do usually refer to cc. But thats only because cc is so much larger than seas; seas is really small.</p>

<p>5-Columbia is in a very unsafe neighborhood?
This association is made because morningside heights borders harlem. But this is NOT TRUE AT ALL. Significant improvements have been made in harlem over the past ten years. And columbia is NOT in harlem. Many people fail to realize that. Morningside heights are actually one of the safest parts of the city.</p>

<p>6-Should I go to columbia engineering if I plan to go into the engineering field?
No. Personally, engineering at columbia is top notch (especially biomed) but seas is not a purely technical engineering school. If you want become a professional practicing engineer, i suggest you go to cornell, mit, berkely, or stanford instead.<br>
At seas, they make you focus on the liberal arts and leadership development much more so than a traditional engineering education. They make you take core classes (english,history,art) and make you engineer on community projects, for example (i personally hated it but it really makes you well rounded and provides a firm establishment in the engineering field).
That being said, most students dont actually go into engineering after they graduate. Most go into other fields; especially in business,law, and medical.</p>

<p>7- So why go seas?
NYC. Some people go because it is prestigeous (thats a horrible reason btw), because its offers the a very fine liberal arts oriented engineering education, parents, the extremely low faculty/student ratio, the barnard girls next door, or etc. but NYC is by far the greatest reason. There are a trillion and one kinds of things happening, at a trillion and one places, a gazilion internships, and almost anything you can ever want to find. This may really sound overrated or cliche, but NYC IS THE BESTTTT.</p>

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<p>Some however make jokes albiet friendly:
CC: i got a 90 on my calc test! how did u do?
SEAS: i got a 100
CC : pshh well at least i get laid
seas: -___-
hahahaha this made me giggle.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
BTW, columbia engineering is ranked top 20 if anyone wanted to know (US news 2007), not that it means much

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not sure how USNews grad school engineering rankings are very relevant to the undergrad experience of being in SEAS.</p>

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<p>fu isn't ranked that poorly in the 2006 usnews undergrad rankings either. i forget the exact ranking number, but it's 27 or something?</p>

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<p>7- So why go seas?
NYC. </p>

<p>that line speaks for itself.</p>

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<p>What should I do if I was an idiot for applying to SEAS early and did not know all this information? I'm not yet sure what kind of profession I want but I know that I really enjoy math and science. If I somehow decide that I want to go into engineering between now and December, should I try to transfer to a good engineering school such as Cornell, CMU, or Berkeley? Or should I just remain and Columbia and try to transfer to the college if I decide that engineering is not for me?</p>

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<p>I've been regretting my decision to apply early for the last few months and wishing I could have applied elsewhere for engineering. I feel that I had a good chance of getting into schools with better engineering programs but now if I try to transfer to them I will have little or no chance because the acceptance rate for transfers is so low. Can anyone please offer me some advice?</p>

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<p>school hasn't even started ant you are already putting yourself in the "my school suck" mentality, well if you keep this up I can garantee you a boring year nexxt year. </p>

<p>try to remember the reason you chose columbia for early. everyone has adviced that ED should not be a light decision to increase your acceptance chances, what were your responses to those statements?</p>

<p>you got in a great school, a great city on top of that. try to enjoy yourself next year instead of thinking about how to get out of a school before even attending it.</p>

<p>as for transfering, if you keep your grades up at columbia, I dont see wht you'll have trouble transfering out. enjoy the city for a year or 2 and plan your transfer out, dont rush into any decisions.</p>

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<p>Cornell, CMU and Cal may be better schools for an engineering PhD, but as an ugrad, you're no better off at any of those schools than in SEAS. You sound totally confused (not sure if engineering is for you vs. wanting a career in engineering), so just calm down and don't get ahead of yourself.</p>

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<p>i just wanted to point out something that polandspring mentioned: that seas prepares you for more than just the hardcore technical field. while many seas graduates are engineers, a good number of them followed up their engineering education with some sort of graduate degree in business, medicine, law, etc., leading them to a career which incorporates the best of two worlds.</p>

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<p>Hey typhoeus11, I kind of went through the same thing you did. I ED'd Columbia and got in and thought I hit the jackpot, but then I let people's unimportant opinions of how Columbia Engineering "isn't that great" (or ranked so high) get to me somewhat. Though I was still excited to go to Columbia, I also kind of regretted early decision because I had good stats that maybe could have gotten me into any other college that I wanted.</p>

<p>Here's a few things to consider...</p>

<p>Columbia is Columbia. Remember that. A Columbia degree will still do much more for you than most of any of the other colleges that are listed higher in the engineering rankings in US News (Georgia Tech, University Minnesota, Purdue...) Consider this...Harvard engineering is actually ranked 31. You think employers would hire someone with a Rensselear Polytechnic Inst. degree (ranked 18) over a Harvard person with the exact same stats?</p>

<p>What I don't understand is Columbia Engineering gets a lot of flack for being a "less competitive/higher acceptance rate" school than the College... However, Penn and Cornell are universities that also have "less competitive/higher acceptance rate" schools (engineering, hotel management, nursing...Penn Engineering has the same ranking and same acceptance rate as Fu...)...but you don't really seem to hear any criticisms about those schools...I think this thing is overblown in Columbia just because it has a much smaller student body than those universities...</p>

<p>As someone else pointed out...Columbia is a unique engineering school in that most of the students...end up going into fields other than engineering... This is unlike other schools...and that is perhaps why the rankings are low. Think about it. US News ranks by Peer Assessment. However, Columbia doesn't really give their engineering peers too many peers to actually assess. A lot of the brighest people that go to Columbia engineering end up in med school, business school, law school or go into investment banking or something like that... leaving a small amount actually going to engineering grad school/industry/academia for peers to "assess"...what an unfair assessment.</p>

<p>If you're going to do finance (financial engineering, industrial engineering, or operations research), leaving Columbia would be the biggest mistake of your life. Unless it's for Harvard or Wharton or something like that...especially with the new Financial Engineering major they're offering...especially with the city for you to find tons of internships in...</p>

<p>Undergraduate research is a KEY for grad schools and even jobs...everyone I know that has looked for a lab to do research in has gotten one...why? because SEAS is such a small school...no competition for those research positions</p>

<p>Columbia Engineering's acceptance rate is getting lower and lower...and its rankings are getting higher and higher. Slowly but surely, it'll be "more reputable." There's a reason for why basically everyone from my area gets rejected from SEAS but gets accepted into Carnegie Mellon.</p>

<p>If you're not sure you want to do engineering later in your life, Columbia is the best engineering school you can go to because of its extensive liberal arts core. I noticed you said you like Science and Math...Science and Math does not necessarily mean SEAS...I made that grave mistake...and ended up transferring to CC to be a Chemistry Major after i found out i HATED engineering. But that's a different story. What are you thinking of majoring in?</p>

<p>Anyways...as long as you have fun freshman year....get involved in activities you like...and study hard and get good grades...you will be a successful Columbian or succeed in transferring to anywhere you want. I think transferring is just hard for a lot of people because they're usually transferring from schools with "less prestigious" reputations...but you'd be transferring out of Columbia...</p>

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<p>thanks polandspringg and beachpanda for both your informative posts... I was not an ED'er but I was having some of the same doubts, and I think I just really needed to read that.</p>

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<p>typhoes11
Actually you are in the best possible situation although you may not realize it. You do not know what profession you want to do go to yet, and seas gives you the best leverage in that aspect. You can practically go into any field you want (just make sure u take choose the right classes because some fields expect you to take some specific classes ex: if you want to do med you there are some specific classes you MUST take)</p>

<p>If you decide that you really want to do engineering by this December, I recommend you to stay nonetheless
You might very easily change your mind about engineering once you transfer but once you are in a technical school you would not have as much flexibility to pursue a career in a non-engineering field if you stayed at seas. It’s also not wise to decide what career you want to immerse yourself in "for sure" that early in your freshman year. Take a lot of core classes and participate in the undergrad research program they have to make sure that engineering is truly your passion (a little less than a half of college students change their mind about what they want to major at least once)</p>

<p>There are also so many other opportunities that involve math and science besides engineering that you can explore. With seas, exploration is key. </p>

<p>I hope that helps.</p>

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<p>This is one of the most insightful threads I’ve ever read about Columbia engineering. Bumpity bump. 3 yrs old</p>

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<p>wow guys thanks for this thread! I really want to go to Columbia SEAS because I THINK I want to go into chemical engineering, but I’m not quite positive (I’ve changed my mind in the past).
I’m just afraid because its so selective! Not that this will affect my decision to apply but does Columbia attempt to make SEAS 50/50 male/female or not because they have Barnard to mess up the ratio?</p>

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<p>How do you know admissions increased to 20 % this year?</p>

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<p>^no, it didn’t
this thread is from 2006.</p>

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<p>ED at SEAS is 30-33%</p>

<p>RD is more like 14%</p>

<p>As of right now that is.</p>

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<p>actually i think overall its around 15% making RD itself probably a bit lower</p>

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<p>Barnard isn’t engineering, but no they don’t attempt to make SEAS 50/50. That would be unrealistic given the distribution of applicants. I find it amazing that people believe other engineering schools are better than Columbia SEAS. The appeal of SEAS isn’t primarily the intensity of the engineering curriculum; it’s Columbia. It’s important to remember that SEAS is really an engineering-focused division of Columbia, not just an affiliated engineering school. SEAS kids are not that different from CC kids; we’re all Columbians. I don’t think anyone looks as SEAS in isolation; they apply to it because they want to go to Columbia and they’re interested in math/science/engineering. In the same way, I knew I wanted to be a Columbian, and applied to CC because I dislike intense math and love studying subjects (e.g. English and philosophy) that will ensure I can’t get a jon after graduation! ;)</p>