Tuition: Parents' Responsibility or Students'?

Paying for College
21

@JMM72493, My point isn’t that parents could/should charge their kids rent. It’s that you seem to think your parents haven’t contributed to your education but, according to the information you posted, that’s not even true.

Who started the mutual fund that paid for your community college? Somebody paid for the first 2 years of your education. Who paid for your housing, food, utilities, and entertainment for your first 3 years of college? Your parents. Who’s giving you cash gifts for birthdays and other holidays so you can put it toward your education? Your parents.

Saving “thousands and thousands of dollars” by commuting doesn’t give you the right to spend all, or part, of that theoretical money so you can graduate with less debt or even that it’s there TO spend. My son can say he “saved” us $15/year by turning down a private college to commute to a SUNY, but it doesn’t mean we have $60k to give him.

You think it’s your parents’ responsibility to “partially” contribute to the cost of your education? Fine. It looks to me like they have. You’re just quibbling about how much. It’s not fair to your parents to suggest they’re balking at helping you pay for your education when they’ve already contributed thousands of dollars. If you went to a NYS cc your family has already spent ~$7k for 2 years of cc, plus $5k from your grandfather for the 4-year SUNY, plus ~$15k for 3 years of living expenses, which has saved you ~$27k; ~$32k if you count living expenses for your senior year. I think that’s a pretty decent family contribution.

22

I don’t think that expecting your parents to help you with college costs is wrong. If they are not struggling financially and you have done your part to reduce costs and to contribute then I think a young person in a family which values education and otherwise provides for needs of children can kind of expect (hope) to get assistance. They might not be able to or want to give it. Then you can ask them to give you the tax credit and work for the rest or take out loans.

What I have a problem with are young people who expect everything to be handed to them, want the most expensive things, including a prestigious, expensive school and not contribute at all.

I don’t think OP’s case, walking to bus stop and starting at CC and commuting to local school, smacks of entitlement.

23

SUNY tuition is ~$8k/year. It can be paid for with the $7500 federal student loan and summer work earnings.

24

First - I truly admire your resourcefulness and pragmatism in getting your degree. You will go far in life with those traits.

Generally I agree with your idea that parents should help with college when they can reasonably do so, so long as the student is reasonable in his/her choices.

That being said - and this is a big qualifier - to me it is unseemly to look at your parents situation and make judgment calls about what they can afford, what they should have been doing all along, etc. There is something in there that smacks of boundary-crossing and ingratitude. If you want to do it differently with your kids, that’s great! I think it’s fine to learn from our parents, and tweak things. But in the big scheme of things I also think it is improper to tell other adults how they should manage their money.

Wishing you luck and lots of success! And this is a great debate topic!

25

Yeah, I can’t help but feel attacked by some of you guys. Calling me naive and saying that I have self entitlement issues is pretty rude, in my opinion.

First off, I do not expect my parents to pay for anything college related. Yeah, I guess you can call me wrong if I expect my parents to at least give me a place to stay and something to eat as I attend school, but is that really wrong? Second, this was supposed to be a debate and not a personal attack at my opinion. Clearly I’ve made some of you upset with my opinion, but you guys don’t need to tell me that I’m complaining/naive/self-entitled.

Yes, I think that a parent should contribute to their child’s education. If you are a parent who has the financial means to do so, then why wouldn’t you do it? It is to help your child be the best they can be, so wouldn’t there be some sort of moral obligation? And I think that’s where a lot of you are ignoring my wording; I am NOT saying that any parent should be responsible to pay. What I am saying is that in a parent’s mind who has the financial means to do so, is there not some sort of feeling that they should help contribute?

I have done what I can to make college as cheap as I possibly can for the both of us. I am not a kid who has had everything handed to me my whole life. When I had a car, I bought it, paid for gas/insurance. I never had the latest technology, I’ve never traveled in my life. I don’t go on fancy vacations or anything like that. I don’t WANT those things because it is not my parents’ responsibility to give me those things. They aren’t giving me spending cash or paying for me to go see my friends in other cities; that is all me.

However, when it comes to school, I think they should feel like they should help out a little. Yeah, I do plan on helping them when they’re older and honestly, they have made it clear that might be something that needs to happen. I get a lot of that from my mom. “Oh, we are going to live in your guest house when you are older!” “When you get out of college and are you’re making good money, be sure to throw some of that our way!” Things like that put a lot of pressure on me, and if they can expect me to pay up later on, why should they not help me now?

26

You assume all children are considerate to their parents or are serious students. Why should parents be morally obligated to fund college for offspring who are really awful to them, or are total academic screw offs?

27

Morals. Did your parents lie to you and tell you they would pay for college and then did not? Have your parents provided for you, fed you ,housed you, raised you to be honest and self sufficient? It seems they have. I guess I question what the moral issue is here. Do they owe you a college education for some reason and are withholding it? Does the act of having a child obligate two people to spend thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars? What is a morally appropriate amount? Many parents do provide for their children’s college education, some provide a certain amount of money and others provide none. I do not believe any of them are acting in a moral or immoral way. It’s a financial choice that is all. Good luck in completing your degree as others have said you should be proud of what you have accomplished. When you have children you can decide how much of their education you wish to fund.

28

@JMM72493 - your mom is crossing boundaries when she suggests that you provide financial support or housing in the future (unless she’s just joking, and you’re in a better position to know that than anyone here). Of course I would NOT say that to her; I would just ignore it.

I do not believe that adult children have that obligation. I do believe that we are to honor our parents. And no, I wouldn’t let my parents starve on the street. That doesn’t mean I have to support them in the style they are accustomed to.

You might benefit from reading a book on boundaries. And boundaries are a two-way street (which means you are entitled to them too).

JMO.

29

@GMTplus7 Not being cocky at all, but I have been a great kid to my parents. We have an amazing relationship. I constantly talk to my mom about everything; she probably gets mad cause I call her at work all the time to talk about life :stuck_out_tongue: Also, I made president’s list all throughout community college and last semester, I made dean’s list at my 4 year. I am working as hard as I can to make them proud. Unfortunately, my SUNY school did not give me any scholarships but that is because there are limited funds so only the best students get them.

30

@JMM72493
Not all offspring are as hard-working or considerate to their parents as you

31

It is not a matter of you making college as cheap as possible for your parents; their out of pocket cost could have been $1 and it would have still been up to them whether or not to pay that dollar.

All family dynamics and situations are different. The way that my family does things may not be the way that your family does things. Everyone is doing what they feel is best and necessary for their situation. I am one of 10 siblings; trust me we run the gamut on how we have raised our kids and what we have paid or were willing to pay for college.

My parents put 6 kids through college before me. They both died while I was in college. My older siblings offered to pay for my college, but I did not want to be indebted to them. I worked a full time job, went to school part time and took care of my 14 year old brother as we lived at my parent’s house. My other 2 younger siblings went to the military, where they received their college educations.

I have siblings who told their kids that they had to go to CUNY, live at home and help pay some of their costs. Their financial situation was not the same as some of my other siblings.

I have siblings whose kids got $ at privates, went there lost there merit and parents brought them back home and they finished at CUNY.

At my house, we had the money talk where the discussion was we can pay for SUNY, you can graduate debt free and there will be money left over for grad school. She choose to go private, graduate debt free and do grad school on her own dime (she took a 3 year full tuition scholarship to a T20 law school after turning down t14 schools with no money so that she would not have 200k in debt). When she went private, we told her in no uncertain terms that we were on the 4 year plan; no summers, no multiple change of majors, just 4 years and not a penny more. We paid all of her direct costs + transportation at the beginning and the end of the year; books, joining a sorority, social life and other travel was totally on her dime. It is what worked in our house.

I have a sibling who paid all of the bells & whistles for their kids to go private; tuition, room, board, books and a car. No judgement, it is what worked for them.

Remember the saying; I was mad because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet. So while you are paying to put yourself through school and your parents are providing 3 hots and a cot, you are in a much better position than a lot of young people who are not in the position to do what you are doing.

You have to put some blinders on and run your own race; don’t worry about what others are doing. You have the wherewithall to be successful and you will be.

32

@Ivvcsf I understand that it’s completely their decision as to whether they help me or not and either way, I am not going to be upset with them because what good would it do? I guess a good amount to contribute would be whatever is feasible for the parents at the time.

This is saying that with your mortgage paid, utilities, car insurance, gas, groceries, retirement fund, etc. and you still have plenty of money that can be used towards your kid’s education, would you not want to help? I am aware that many of those things are costly and if you simply don’t have the money to spare for tuition, then that is just the reality of things. That is not the scenario that I am referring to though.

Trust me, I am far from being greedy and selfish towards my parents. I won’t even ask them for a 10 min ride to a friend’s house on their day off; I walk there haha. I really don’t think that them helping fund my college tuition would even really phase them with the money they have, but I know it isn’t my money to decide how it should be spent.

33

xposted

Kudos for the good you’ve done, OP, but you have yet to face the depth and breadth of realities parents do. It’s possible, but most kids don’t know the month to month issues with their parents’ budgets. So, some of your perspective may seem idealistic.

We do the best we can- and that comes in many forms. We have had parent-parent debates on CC, some have the money, plenty of it, and do set aside full pay for all their kids. Others can’t. And 100k in income only goes so far. Plus, it likely took years to get to that income

There is more to good parenting than paying for college. We have mortgages or rent, insurances, taxes, gas, food, family security/crises to deal with or set aside for, the happiness component, etc. Most of us spare our kids the worst parts of our juggling. It can seem oh-so-easy to save $30/week- or $100/week, for private. Or $200/week for two kids. But that doesn’t make it so.

Bottom line to many of us is to give our kids the personal tools to succeed. That’s a bigger gift, in the long run, than the dollars on tuition and is the real moral and ethical framework that moves you forward toward success.

(And you still seem to be playing both sides of this.)

34

I actually think people are being pretty nice on here. I belong to another group that would have gone absolutely crazy at the suggestion that a parent is in any way responsible for anything beyond HS graduation.

I believe it’s my responsibility to contribute to my child’s college education to the best of my ability as long as they are trying to contribute as well and have done the best they can academically throughout HS. I feel this way because I think that some form of education beyond HS is necessary these days and that most students are not able to work their way through college with the current wage and tuition situation. I actually made a spreadsheet at one time with historical tuition rates at one of our state universities and historical minimum wage data. I went back to the earliest data I could find (1970ish), then used data from about every 10 years forward. At the earliest point, a student could have paid their tuition, room and board with less than 10 hours per week of work. At the latest point, it would take take 60-something hours per week to foot the bill (straight time - which isn’t realistic, but clearly not possible). Nothing burns me up like some older person bragging about how they paid their own way because they were such a hard worker unlike today’s “entitled little brats”. Ugh. I’ve done the math. My D would have to work nearly 30 hours per week at minimum wage to pay tuition and fees at our local community college while paying for her own (used) car, gas, insurance and basic necessities.

Anyway, if I had the ability to pay 100%, I would probably still “hold back” some…make them take out a loan or contribute some of their earnings along the way, etc. However, if/when they completed their degree successfully, I would gift them the amount I initially held back. I would want to know they want it enough to be willing to sacrifice some, too.

The reality is that we will likely fall very short of what my daughter (HS senior) will need to pursue the degree she wants from the schools she wants. However, she has worked very hard and we are willing to do as much as we can to help. Our current plan involves using some of our retirement funds and me picking up additional work / hours. It still may not be enough and she may have to alter her plans accordingly. When my second child gets to college age, assuming she is doing her part, we will consider downsizing our house to help fund her education. Both kids will still likely have to take out loans.

All that being said, it doesn’t mean your parents have to feel the same way! Also, we are fairly young parents. We will both still be in our 40’s when our youngest graduates HS. So, we will still have enough years to replace the retirement funds we use and downsizing is something we may do regardless of financial need (so it’s not a huge sacrifice as far as I’m concerned). If we were older, we may not be so willing to do those things.

35

By way of background, my parents did not contribute toward my college education. They had 5 younger children and no money to spare, even though I qualified for no financial aid other than unsubsidized loans. I completely understood why they did not help me - the only thing I wish they would have done was let me know much earlier that they weren’t in a position to help at all. Their expectation had always been that we would all go to college (both of my parents were college graduates) and we were raised to believe that not going wasn’t even an option, yet they didn’t tell me I was going to have to find the money to pay for everything on my own until a couple months before I started. Fortunately that was at a time when it was possible to put oneself through college - I know in my state today (with in-state COA at the state flagship in excess of $35,000) it would not be possible for my kids. I also put myself through law school, and my husband put himself through college and professional schools, without parental or government assistance (other than government-backed loans). We did have plenty of student loans which were repaid years ago.

My husband and I are now in the very fortunate position of being able to afford to pay out-of-pocket for our kids to attend college. Our oldest daughter (the only one who has gone to college so far) chose to attend a school where she had a scholarship that paid her full OOS tuition and a good chunk of her other expenses. Even though she didn’t need to choose her school with finances in mind, she was cognizant of the expense. We gave her the option to go anywhere she wanted, but made it clear that we didn’t think that cost had much relationship to quality where education was concerned. She certainly never bought into “dream school” thinking, and said she would have been happy to attend any of the 5 schools she applied to.

Bottom line for me - I don’t think parents have an obligation, legal or moral, to put a child through college. I also don’t think every child SHOULD go to college. That said, I cannot conceive of parents who can afford to help, and have a child who is college-worthy (meaning he or she has the ability, work ethic and motivation to succeed in college), not helping to the extent they can. What I do think parents have an obligation to do is what my parents did not - let your child know as early as possible what the financial situation is and what assistance, if any, will be provided. I also think that a parent who has knowledge of, or the ability to research, higher education (be it trade school, community college, 4 year college, etc.) should make the effort to guide his or her child and assist the child with making a reasonable and affordable choice.

36

OP wrote: Financial aid does calculate your need based on your parents’ salary which I personally think is wrong because it does insinuate parents being financially responsible for college.

The federal government makes no bones about it: The family is responsible first and foremost for their own child’s education. Federal aid assists those whose families can least afford to pay for college. To allow families to decide on their own whether or not they can or want to pay makes little sense … there simply isn’t enough money to support a system based on this premise. Until money begins to grow on trees, there must be some way to allocate scarce financial aid resources. Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not, but it is the best that Congress has been able to come up with to date.

As for a moral obligation for parents to pay … I will not speak for anyone but myself. I have always felt an obligation to my kids’ educations (K-12 and college). I did pay for some private schooling for both kids (they also attended public schools for a number of years), and I paid for their college. My H and I made choices throughout our lives that allowed us to do this, and some of those choices meant a less-awesome house, older cars, less exciting vacations, lack of “gadgets,” etc. We were also fortunate that we had an income that, while not exceptional, was adequate to support our needs and allow us to save. If we had not been so fortunate, we could not have paid what we did for our kids.

Do I judge others’ choices? No. Of course, I don’t have sympathy for the folks who pay for travel hockey, competitive dance, etc and complain that they can’t afford college … but their choices are their own, and they have a right to make those choices. Not all parents who have decent incomes and complain that they can’t afford college have paid for these things, of course - but they have other reasons that make sense for them that explain why they feel unable to pay. I do, however, agree that they need to be upfront and honest with their kids about whether or how much they will pay for college.

37

Yes, this is very important to let the student know before the application list is made.

38

My DH and I are paying for college for our two kids. We feel this is our parental obligation and is something we have set out to do and planned for. The sky was not the limit, though. We knew and they knew the budget. No, we are not super rich at all. In fact, at times over the years it has been a struggle. But we have made college a priority and so, like many parents, we have sacrificed gladly to make this happen. I know other families who in all honesty are polar opposite from my opinion and that’s OK too. I’m not passing judgement. For us, education is one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids. Our girls are each invested in this, too: we do not pay for books, supplies, entertainment, misc sundries, etc. Summer work and on-campus part time job is a necessity.

39

Why is cash the only contribution that you count? Paying for your first two years of school was a contribution. Letting you live at home so you don’t have to pay rent and utilities is a contribution. Paying for your food and entertainment is a contribution. So they ARE giving something each semester. You just aren’t acknowledging it.

Do you expect to be able to go to college for free? Most kids can’t do that, you know. You’re in a much better situation than many though. You’re living home for free which is saving you ~$40k over 4 years. Three semesters of SUNY tuition is only ~$15k. Have you been working during summer breaks? My son (also a SUNY student) expects to have ~$9k saved from summer earnings by the beginning of his junior year. That plus a $6-7k federal student loan would pay for 3 semesters of SUNY tuition. Even if you have to borrow all of it, your entire education will end up costing you an average of $4k/year. I think that’s a pretty good deal.

40

Goodness, of course paying for college is not a “moral” obligation. Morality is pretty baseline behavior. It doesn’t get into the nitty gritty of exactly what a parent provides for a kid. Example, I feel strongly that every child gets an education in the arts but it’s not a “moral” obligation. People that can’t or won’t provide piano lessons aren’t “immoral.” If you believe in an afterlife, not being able or willing to pay for college isn’t going to deny you access through the pearly gates in any religion I’ve ever learned about. Now, Parents who steal their children’s earnings leaving them destitute as adults like in the case of many child celebrities in previous generations, totally immoral. Parents that beat their children, lock them in closets to starve… Absolutely immoral. Let’s not try to elevate unwillingness or inability to pay tuition for an ADULT child to a morality issue.

Personally, we committed to helping our kids through college and are happy to do so but we can only help. We can’t provide a free ride and our kids have always known that. We made retirement savings the priority because we felt them having to help with college costs far better than having to pay for our elder care. Most weeks in our early years found setting aside even 30 dollars for college impossible. There were too many other priorities like occupational therapy for one kid when insurance would only cover 3 sessions, like blown-out tires, like two sets of braces and broken retainers, like a brother who got laid off and needed help paying for heating during frigid winters, like funeral expenses for a lost family member… Life can suck away a lot of your best intentions.

As parents, our budget was local public university and live at home (and we live by two very high ranking ones.) No loans needed in that scenario. If the kids want something else, they needed to either get big merit or into a school that met full needs. D got into a full needs school which is good because we could never do the 62k it would cost for her to attend a private LAC. S is looking for high merit because he’s looking at out of state publics. It’s a full family affair and I don’t feel at all immoral for the parenting choices we’ve made even if the result wasn’t ability to fund a full ride to college.