<p>I know, these are two very different places but my daughter is debating between those them. Better academics or better social life. Is this a really what it gets down to?</p>
<p>I think very highly of Grinnell, but I am not sure I would say the academics are better. The average SAT and ACT scores are virtually identical. Obviously Grinnell provides the LAC experience of extremely close attention from teachers in a very small town. Tulane, more than most mid-sized research universities, also has a heavy emphasis on undergraduate teaching and attention from the professors, but I wouldn’t represent it as being LAC like. Interestingly, Grinnell reports their student:faculty ratio as 9:1 and Tulane as 8:1, although I know these numbers are misleading sometimes. Still, I do know Tulane faculty members nearly all provide undergraduates with a great deal of their time and energy, and are quite accessable.</p>
<p>Tulane certainly has a reputation as being a more social school, and I think that is probably true. Grinnell students have a reputation for being more serious than most. But Tulane is not the wild drunken orgy some people think either. Far far from it.</p>
<p>So the real differences, I think, are the location (which encompasses weather, culture, urban vs. rural, etc.), the size of the schools, the research opportunities at Tulane if that is important (you didn’t mention possible major), and general “vibe”, as people seem to like to say. Those should be enough differences to allow for a decision. However, if she or you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask.</p>
<p>My S liked Grinnell but was waitlisted. We are on the plane on the way to visit Tulane right now. One thing I have pointed out to him is that Grinnell does not offer everything that Tulane does. He is now talking about taking more photography classes and Grinnell does not have a darkroom or offer courses that I have been able to find. We asked about a darkroom on our tour and the tour guid had no clue. So he is choosing between Tulane and Vassar now since being waitlisted.</p>
<p>They are very different in feel. Grinnell is one of the best LAC’s around and is ranked very high. Tulane is very southern. The culture and weather could not be more different. My son got a lot of info from Tulane, but really liked Grinnell’s culture better and greatly respected the fact that there are no TA’s that teach classes at Grinnell. Grinnell is one of the most intellectual colleges in the country and is known for their stellar academics. The facilities are top notch as they have been on a buliding blitz in recent years. Grinnell has one of the largest endowments per capita in the country and they bring in incredible shows, arts and entertainment to campus. Everything is free for the students. Grinnell is in a very small town, but from talking with lots of the students that is not a problem as you are very busy with school work and the college does an incredible job offering lots of activities each week. The smallness also foster a very tight knit community feel. They also have free shuttles to Des Moines and Iowa city for those that really want to go shopping. I am not personally into rankings per se, but Grinnell is ranked very high in comparison and for some this is important. Although Grinnell is not a large research university it produces one of the highest number of future ph’ds per capita. It ranks seventh in that department and is known particularly for certain departments. Not sure what you want to major in. Grinnell is a very liberal college, but very accepting at the same time. What kind of school is your daughther looking for? What does she want to major in? Do you have more specific questions? Please let me know and I would be happy to answer them. I would also highly recommend going out there and visiting sometime.</p>
<p>We were told that no TAs teach courses at Tulane as well. There are graduate assistants for the few large courses offered in addition to the prof teaching that lead discussion sessions. S2, who is quite concerned about academics, found the faculty at Tulane top notch and accessible even to visiting students. Both are great schools offering comparable academics.</p>
<p>I agree with everything d’smom said except that it implied that Tulane has TA’s teaching courses. This is not the case, courses are taught by faculty, visiting professors, or “Professors of Practice” or some such title. An example of the last is James Carville teaching his Political Science course. Admittedly d’smom did not say Tulane did have TA’s teaching courses, but it would have been easy in infer that, and I just wanted to clear that up. Back to regular programming.</p>
<p>I think it will always come down to the same thing in making the decision. A smaller, very tight knit atmosphere at Grinnell, or a larger, more urban research university like Tulane, which happens to be in an extremely unique city (which is a big factor for some people). Grinnell will definitely seem more serious and studious, Tulane with a more relaxed atmosphere. But make no mistake, the academics are comparable in quality and as was pointed out, Tulane offers somewhat more options in many areas. It all depends on your daughter’s goals and what she wants from the next four years academically and socially.</p>
<p>idad, that is good if no TA’s teach. Did not mean to imply that Tulane did. I am sorry if it came across that way, as I did not mean for it too, rather was making a generalization that so many kids are being taught by TA’s and assistants these days. I personally feel if we are spending the kind of money that we are, than the professors should be teaching the classes. I like that about the small LAC’s. Many of the big research schools put much of their emphasis on the graduate level teaching and research.</p>
<p>d’smom: I generally agree with you, but there are some subjects, like basic college calculus, where PhD students can sometimes do a great job. At other times they may have a passion for their area and it becomes infectious, but many schools go over board and rely too much on TAs. I was a TA and co-taught one course and supplied student support and graded the exams in another. I had fun and enjoyed working with the undergrads. Boy were they smart!</p>
<p>(An aside: Many students don’t realize that it is often the TA that grades their papers and exams and not the prof. Sometimes if one doesn’t agree with the grade taking it to the prof can get it changed.)</p>
<p>Nice aside idad.</p>
<p>You’ll get an excellent education at either school, and the students are outstanding at both places.</p>
<p>The real difference is the environment. You can spend 4 years in New Orleans or you can spend 4 years in a small town in the middle of Iowa. I’m not knocking that (my brother went there and loved it), but a big weekend is driving into Des Moines or driving to the Amish Colony and having all you can eat roast beef? Really? Is that going to keep you occupied for 4 years?</p>
<p>You’ll also have a good half day drive to the Omaha, Minneapolis, or Chicago airports (flights out of Des Moines are limited and sky-high) so you’ll lose a day every vacation just traveling to and from the airport. Your parents want to come visit? If there’s anything happening at the College that weekend you better book that room in Des Moines and have them drive almost an hour each way because that will be the closest hotel room.</p>
<p>To their credit, Grinnell does a great job of bringing bands, speakers, movies, etc., to the college, but if they don’t bring it, it isn’t happening locally, and by locally I mean within 250 miles.</p>
<p>Oh, and let’s talk about the weather. Not the fact that Iowa is cold and snowy, maybe that appeals to you, instead, let’s talk about catching that Omaha, Minneapolis or Chicago flight to get home for Christmas when there’s a snowstorm and I-80 is covered in ice. That three hour drive to Omaha just became a major 6 hour event, and since your Southwest flight is at 8AM, plan on driving into Omaha the night before (leave about 3pm). </p>
<p>I use the Omaha airport. I know of what I speak. Check the schedules. It is amazing how every flight from OMA leaves early in the morning and every flight into OMA arrives after 10PM. Toss in a 3 hour drive, and you’re spending the night at the Super 8 in Omaha coming and going.</p>
<p>My point is, if you think that you’re going to live in Grinnell and jump in the car for wild weekends in Chicago or quick Spring Breaks to Orlando, consider the weather and the logistics of getting out of there. It just isn’t as easy as most people think, especially in winter.</p>
<p>One should also note that the weather at Tulane is unbearable hot and humid and they get crazy storms too. If you are accustomed to that, than it’s fine, if not, it gets some taking use to. I have lived all over the country and I will never go back to hot, humid weather again. The same could be said for a long cold Iowa winter, but for me, I will take the snow any day over the humidity and who needs to drive anywhere when the school brings everything right to your doorstep for free.</p>
<p>in defense of new orleans’ weather- i’m a snow elf from NH and was worried about adjusting to a southern climate, but i visited in the summer twice and the heat/humidity did not bother me. keep in mind, i’m someone who wears a t-shirt outside when it’s in the 30s. i don’t even know how to describe it, but the air feels different down there. and i was probably too excited to care, lol. but i’ve talked to multiple people about the climate, and everyone has told me that you will adjust. i’ve heard a bunch of success stories from people who have moved from way up north to places like texas and were fine. it might take some time, but people grow to love the heat/humidity, or at least tolerate it well. </p>
<p>i worry about hurricanes too, but extreme weather in the US is inescapable. you’re either gonna have to deal with tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, snowstorms, earthquakes, etc. so it’s lose/lose. i feel better at least knowing the levees are much stronger now, and tulane is good about protecting their students during a hurricane, so you’ll always have help.</p>
<p>honestly, having to live in iowa would be the dealbreaker for me. it’s beautiful, but there’s nothing out there. the campus may have a lot, but so do many college campuses, and many also have a berth of things to do in the surrounding cities, like tulane. my school’s main campus at UNH is a small town with the typical college stuff- theatre, stadium, restaurants, athletics, etc. and it gets boring. UNH actually has a bad problem w/ drinking partly because there’s not much else to do but drink. obviously tons of people excel at colleges in small towns and UNH doesn’t speak for them all, but i’m just giving an example of when an isolated campus can get kind of problematic. at tulane you have new orleans at your disposal, and you’re only a short drive to some of the best cities in the south. in iowa, i’d feel way too isolated. that’s just me, though.</p>
<p>It is really hot the first month of school, usually. Of course the buildings all have excellent A/C, but no question the heat/humidity is tough on us old folks, especially. Kids seem to deal with it better. Usually, around late September the heat breaks and doesn’t come back until the end of April, as far as really hot/humid. Was always just when finals were starting, ugh. But the majority of the time in between was good, many days in the 60’s, 70’s and low 80’s even in the winter months. There are of course days in the 30’s and 40’s which with the dampness feel about 10 degrees colder. The biggest weather issue in New Orleans during the school year is lots of rain some days. While Katrina was obviously an unmitigated disaster because of the levees failing, a study of the last 50 years would show that hurricanes are less of an issue than people seem to think. There is always a chance of course, but you know there will be days with just inches of rain. So it goes.</p>
<p>I think another important factor that the OP needs to consider is the culture of the school. Being in a nice city or being under the stars in a cornfield really doesn’t matter if they climate of the school is not considered for the OP’s needs.</p>
<p>Grinnell is a very academic and intellectual school. It is also a very liberal school, where Tulane is considered a much more conservative school. Tulane is a much more apathetic school too. Some may really like that, but some don’t. Another thing to note is that Tulane has a lot more crime. It’s basically non-existent at Grinnell. I would not avoid Tulane due to that, but you should be aware of that when deciding. There is also no guarantee of living on campus at Tulane. This for us was a big concern. Only about 27% of students live on campus, where aprox 88% live on campus all four years at Grinnell and is guaranteed for all four years at Grinnell. This really helps to foster the tight knit community feel at Grinnell. The graduation rate at Tulane is about 60% in four years, and 71% in 6 yrs. where as Grinnell is about 86% in for yrs and 90% in 6 yrs. Tulane is a much larger school with 10,500 students where Grinnell has about 1600.</p>
<p>I will defer to FC to look into the stats about the percent of students who live on/off campus (27% seems very, VERY low, especially since freshmen and sophomores are required to live on campus. Perhaps that number is for the # living on campus all 4 years. Dunno. I will, however, address the comment that TU is a much more conservative school. I just asked my s if he thought TU was at all conservative leaning, and he said no. Also, the TU graduation stats are dated, and probably affected by the number who left after Katrina and did not return. Also, the School of Architecture is a 5 year program, which of course affects the grad rates.</p>
<p>Hard to really compare crime in urban vs rural schools. Totally different environments. Guess it would be like comparing the off campus social opportunities/restaurants. Very different, for sure.</p>
<p>d’smom - I don’t know where you are getting your information, but you are WAYYYY off base now.
Well, I could put this another way easily. Almost all schools are more conservative than Grinnell, which you correctly characterize as very liberal. Tulane, like most college campuses, still leans left of center I would be very sure, but it does certainly have some balance to it. I would characterize that as much healthier than a Grinnell environment where PC runs wild.
I have no idea where you get that from. I would love to see your study. That is just a silly statement, especially since Tulane has become very well known for the community service it provides to the city. Take a walk around the Tulane campus and you will see a huge number of students wearing Tulane gear on any given day. Other posters have noted they do not see that at many of the schools they visit. Doesn’t sound too apathetic to me.
I would certainly take issue with your characterization of “a lot”. Does New Orleans have more crime? Certainly. All cities would have more crime, even on a per capita basis, than Grinnell Iowa. Does Tulane University have “a lot” more crime on a per capita basis than Grinnell College? I have no idea, but probably some more. Is it a lot? No way. The vast majority of students go through all 4 years at Tulane untouched by crime. The way you present this is reckless and irresponsible.
Completely untrue. Living on campus is required and guaranteed for the first two years, and many stay for all 4. That makes your 27% number absurd.
Tulane’s rates have risen quite a bit. It is completely unfair to take data from Katrina years for this and not state that caveat. Also Tulane has a 5 year architecture program, part of the big rise for the 6 year rate. Also, Tulane has about 7,000 undergrads, not 10,500. Such a simple fact, hard to see how you got that wrong also. Graduate/law students do not in fact compete for classroom space, and I would argue represent a healthy presence for the undergrads. It is part of the difference between an LAC and a research university. As stated in previous posts, there is nothing wrong with choosing an LAC over a research university at all. But let’s not contort the facts when comparing the two.</p>
<p>A very irresponsible post.</p>
<p>LOL-- crossposted with FC!</p>
<p>Looking at d’smoms other posts in other threads, she seems to be a strong Grinnell cheerleader. Thats fine, but the critiques of the other schools, as FC said, seem to be way off the mark.</p>
<p>I just returned from a week in the snow to 80 degree weather. Both are enjoyable for their own reasons. The really hot/humid weather occurs largely when school is not is session. Most students LOVE being able to walk around in shorts and flip flops most of the school year. There are a lot of students outside enjoying the beautiful weather for a long period of time in the southern schools. Not discounting fun snowball fights and such, but studnets are less likely to be spending a lot of quality time outdoors when it is bitter cold. Again-- not better or worse, just different.</p>
<p>Agree jym. I have no problem with supporting one’s school and getting the facts out there, even on the “rival” school’s thread. Up until the last couple her posts were fine, IMO. But that last one especially was just laced with errors and unsubstantiable innuendo and falsehoods. That is out of bounds, and since it is so easily refuted, it doesn’t look good for the school she is supporting, either.</p>
<p>Grinnell is a great place according to the 6 or so people I know that have gone there. But the contrast between it and Tulane is so clear on many factors. Not better or worse, just contrast. Not sure why she couldn’t have left it at that when that had already been laid out in a very civilized and plain fashion.</p>
<p>“I have no idea where you get that from. I would love to see your study. That is just a silly statement, especially since Tulane has become very well known for the community service it provides to the city. Take a walk around the Tulane campus and you will see a huge number of students wearing Tulane gear on any given day. Other posters have noted they do not see that at many schools. Doesn’t sound too apathetic to me.”</p>
<p>This was purely about politics, not about their community service. Please don’t take it that way. Grinnell is very, very active in community and is known for that. I am sure that Tulane has wonderful community projects as well and never implied they didn’t. BTW, My point is that Tulane has a much more Conservative number of students there. I think it’s important to point that out, that’s all. They are apathetic in that you don’t see protests or much political discussion there. Grinnell is more liberal. I pointed this out so that the OP would get a clearer picture. I have no idea what the OP’s political stance is and the OP may want a more conservative school like Tulane. I would not call Grinnell an environment where PC runs wild either as you stated as they are a very accepting school of different types of people. They do lean left though.</p>
<p>“I would certainly take issue with your characterization of “a lot”. Does New Orleans have more crime? Certainly. All cities would have more crime, even on a per capita basis, than Grinnell Iowa. Does Tulane University have “a lot” more crime on a per capita basis than Grinnell College? I have no idea, but probably some more. Is it a lot? No way. The vast majority of students go through all 4 years at Tulane untouched by crime. The way you present this is reckless and irresponsible.”</p>
<p>Again, please don’t take offense. The fact of the matter is that Tulane does have more crime. I even said that I would not write it off due to that, but it should be considered. I am sorry that you are being so sensitive. For some parents this is a very important issue. Some have no problem with their kids attending a school like NYU and others want their kids in a smaller rural area. They are vastly different and it should be considered.</p>
<p>“There is also no guarantee of living on campus at Tulane. This for us was a big concern. Only about 27% of students live on campus, where aprox 88% live on campus all four years at Grinnell and is guaranteed for all four years at Grinnell.”</p>
<p>Perhaps the 27% number that takes into account graduate students, not sure. However, we have talked to undergrads who say many live off of campus and there is no guarantee to get housing all four years. BTW, we were told this directly by the school when we called. Perhaps they misinformed me, but we were told that there is no guarantee and we asked about how many undergrads live on campus and were told many chose to live off campus. I never implied that Freshman and Sophomores didn’t, I was talking about undergrads in general. </p>
<p>I don’t think that my post was irresponsible, rather just trying to offer information to show the OP the differences between the two schools as they are very different as you have pointed out as well.</p>