<p>Berurah: One more point on the "look ahead to the big picture" considerations...Your S seems like he might be interested in applying to the MD/PhD combined programs, since he wants to do research, right? From what I understand, those programs are ultra-competitive to get into, so the best experience and research opportunities in undergrad will help with that. And I also understand that MD/PhD programs are full scholarship. Something else to consider re the prestige factor of the JHU scholarship.</p>
<p>Just want to weigh on on JHU re safety and "cutthroat." Disclaimer: I am a "city girl" by nature and preference, tho not living in a city at this moment. </p>
<p>I did not feel worried about safety at JHU - my best friend lives adjacent to the campus abutting (but not in) a lovely neighborhood of Baltimore. On the other side of the campus is a restaurant-y/artsy/college area-ish section of retail/restaurant/apts where many students live. I don't recall the other two bordering areas. Of course, there can be/has been crime in these areas, but you cannot go anywhere without there being the possibility of a mishap or crime. I hope you will not get a "fearful" view of JHU from what others have said.</p>
<p>I have no firsthand knowledge of "cutthroat" (or not) atmosphere at JHU. I DO know that such reputations are often very unfounded rumor. I went to Stanford B school which prided itself on being (and it was) a cooperative, supportive atmosphere among students. That didn't prevent others, from the outside, characterizing it as cutthroat. On visiting JHU and meeting a few students, I got no impression whatsoever of this type of atmosphere. So I hope your S will choose based on other things than "impressions" from afar.</p>
<p>I know from my S the affect that receiving that type of scholarship can have. His was from a less prestigious (but wonderful to him) institution - Tulane. But, as you say, along with the $ comes validation, a real feeling of being wanted, and as in your case, communications from professors, deans, etc. - a real personal touch, a real indication that S (mine and yours) is already an individual, already connected to the best possibilities. There is value in that - not to say that he can't have it all at Duke as well. But JHU is trying to tell him now how hard they will work to fulfill his needs and desires.</p>
<p>Either choice will be wonderful.</p>
<p>Berurah-
Duke has a similar (not exactly the same) scholarship, the Robertson Scholar Program. (<a href="http://www.robertsonscholars.org/home.xml%5B/url%5D">http://www.robertsonscholars.org/home.xml</a>) It is also implemented at UNC-Chapel Hill. The benefits at Duke are 4 full years of tuition, support for 3 summers of service, research and travel AND a laptop for each scholar. If they are at Carolina it is full tuition, room and board and the 3 summers and laptop. Carolina also has the Morehead which is also prestigious not to mention generous. NCState has the Parks Scholars which is full tuition, room, board, computer, 3 summers and enrichment benefits.</p>
<p>So it sounds like what JHU is offering your son is one of these scholarships. Is the scholarship the whole package from JHU or is there a need-based part as well? Has Duke been forth-coming with their package yet?</p>
<p>In my way back up there post I mentioned my son's involvement at Duke, and our close proximity so if you have any questions, feel free.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>
[quote]
Those kids who are truly research oriented will fly high at Hopkins and many of them go on to become world class researchers. I would not recommend Hopkins to anyone who is not very much into research and is very serious about studying as the science gauntlet is one of the toughest.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Jami, you are sooooo wise. Those were my thoughts too.</p>
<p>The atmosphere won't feel cutthroat to your S, berurah. He's WAY into the subject. He will probably appreciate the intensity of the other students. When you are very very good and very very interested-- being surrounded by the best is TOO much fun.</p>
<p>I also second the prestige factor of the JHU scholarship. That will stay on his resume forever. It will catapult him into rarified air from the moment he arrives. He will not have to demonstrate anything to anybody. He will be looked upon as a future peer.</p>
<p>Basically, and I am thinking about the basketball pole here, this is a:</p>
<p>Rah-rah vs Pure Academic Decision. </p>
<p>Can he live without rah-rah? Would he trade some Rah-rah (and some Moo-lah) for a high-flying start to his research career?</p>
<p>btw: Put me in the camp of Neighborhood Schmiegh-borhood. </p>
<p>I've lived in Alphabet City without incident, I've been mugged on the Upper West Side. I still adore Manhattan.</p>
<p>I could have been hit by a car in Lawrence or Wichita. My aunt was maimed on a Kansas highway. I still drive cars.</p>
<p>I think Hopkins is very rah-rah for lacrosse. He can always become a big time lacrosse fan if he decides on JHU :)</p>
<p>Katwkittens, I was aware of the program but never too sure about how it works. You cannot directly apply for it as the adcoms at Duke and UNC are the ones who select the candidates, but when I just looked at the website it said that the deadline for materials for the scholarship was Dec 1 2004, which means only kids who applied ED would be eligible as the deadline for Duke is not until January. Duke does have some high powered scholarships including the Angier B Duke Scholarship. But if you think getting into this schools is winning a lottery,getting any of this money has even more crazy odds. For this board to have so many great merit scholarship recipients is just incredible. I rarely see kids who have gotten these awards.</p>
<p>Hi Jamimom-
I wonder if the scholarship Berurah's son received from JHU required a seperate app, because she sounded surprised when he received it and she seemed not to be aware of its existence before he did, but I could be mistaken. I just assumed it did not require a seperate app like the Robertson at Duke. As far as the 12/1 deadline I think your app has to be in be then but you can mark RD as your decision path. I know DD had several school specific scholarships where the app and material had to be in before the reg. decision deadline but one could still apply RD rather than ED. And yes I completely agree about the level of selectivity of receiving one of those scholarships. Thus the significance of JHU bestowing one of them on B's son.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>The Hodson does not require a separate app: all applicants for the freshman class are considered and the staff selects the recipients from among the admitted students.</p>
<p>That is my understanding also. I believe only about 20 kids get this grant and it is the largest merit award that JHU gives.</p>
<p>Berurah, if it were my choice? I'd choose JHU. But, lol, since it's not me, I'd recommend (1) ask your son to completely disregard the money issue for now - separate it completely from the decision and pretend both schools are $40K, period (or perhaps pretend they're both completely free, if that makes the exercise easier), and evaluate both schools specific to his needs and interests. Which does he prefer? See how this answer comes out, then (2) take the results and add the money to the equation. If all things being equal his answer is Duke, does the JHU scholarship make up for what he will miss if he doesn't go to Duke? Of course, if the result is JHU, then it's easy...</p>
<p>If he does this exercise and the answer is Duke and his reasons are significant, then, I'm not sure any scholarship or amount of money is reason enough to choose JHU. Of all the merits in both acceptances, more money is the easiest thing to generate (plus it's a finite amount for a specific period of time), and, interesting, it's been our experience at least that once a student matriculates, more money seems to show up anyway - once they get into the school and start working, more awards seem to come. </p>
<p>I do realize there's a prestige component with the JHU scholarship, however, matriculating at Duke doesn't really require any rehabilitation of prestige lol!</p>
<p>Hey y'all,</p>
<p>I've been gone most of the evening, but since I've gotten such an overwhelming response on this thread (THANKS EVERYONE!!), I need to throw one more kink into this whole decision.</p>
<p>My son has passions for both medicine AND law. If he were to decide after his undergrad program to pursue law school (he'd want to practice in a medically related law field), how do you think law schools would react to a science heavy, JHU undergrad program? If he were to decide on law school, would he be better of coming out of JHU or Duke or would it matter? Also, can anyone provide the statistics for law school acceptance for both of these schools??? This info. would help a LOT! Thanks! ~b.</p>
<p>Berurah, my D is similar - actually wants both the MD and JD - however, I think the answer to the law school question is really going to come down more on the concentration of law, and, I am not sure stats are going to matter much because they'll be too aggregate. </p>
<p>What he might want to do is research Martindale Hubbell, because you can search lawyers (anywhere in the world) by practice category, law school, and even undergrad. That might lead your son to some real-world answers: if he wishes, he can send email inquiry to practicing lawyers from both schools right off that site and I'd bet they'll share their thoughts, advice and experiences directly.</p>
<p>My radar says JHU though.</p>
<p>latetoschool,</p>
<p>My son has talked about completing both too! We were just discussing it this morning. What does your D want to do? Also, thanks so much for the suggestion. He might get some very good information. ~b.</p>
<p>Hi Berurah-
Haven't had time to catch up with this thread (which seems to have track shoes on, given the pace it is moving!) but I've heard that law school really like kids with a different backgrounds/majors.They get a gazillion English, History and Poli Sci majors-- You'd get a much different perspective, and a more lively class discussions with a background in the sciences.</p>
<p>B.: </p>
<p>Percentage of Duke student applicants admitted to law school: 99
Percentage of Duke student applicants admitted to med school: 80</p>
<p>Don't know JHU's.</p>
<p>I have zero knowledge of law school; I can only say that a kid from any rigorous pre-med curriculum at great science school would definitely stand out among all the LAC poli-sci & history majors! Might be a "hook!"</p>
<p>"Percentage of Duke student applicants admitted to law school: 99
Percentage of Duke student applicants admitted to med school: 80"</p>
<p>Not useful numbers. It doesn't tell us anything about how many were weeded out in the process. Any good student who can get into Duke or JHU can get into med school if they had gone to good ol' Podunk State, if they could find a way to pay for it. I have heard of many folks who would have been fine premeds anywhere else, but terminated that direction, for good or ill, at JHU. </p>
<p>My alma mater has a higher percentage of music majors going into medicine than biology majors.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Haven't had time to catch up with this thread (which seems to have track shoes on, given the pace it is moving!) but I've heard that law school really like kids with a different backgrounds/majors.They get a gazillion English, History and Poli Sci majors-- You'd get a much different perspective, and a more lively class discussions with a background in the sciences.
[/quote]
jym,</p>
<p>That's what we were thinking and hoping. Also, it would make him an attractive candidate for a job in a medically related law field to have the background knowledge in the sciences, I think.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Law firms will want the kid who has the best possible undergraduate record in the science field which is most recondite. I for odd various reasons know many partners at Silicon Valley law firms (Pillsbury Madison, Wilson Soncini, Cooley Godward, Grey, Cary, Ware etc etc.) They need people who have bothered to get educated in the stuff that is recent and needs math/science. The managing partners in these firms graduated before technology drove their clients. So they graduated in history/economics/english. However, they need the deep geeks of science who are willing and able to come and fight/inform the contractual battles.</p>
<p>Not that that dictates JHU or Duke. They just want to see someone who knows what they don't know, got killer grades, can impress the CTO of the client they want to take public, and cleans up well. This is actual data I am giving you, vs. opinion:) Many times I only have opinion to offer so hey, data!</p>
<p>Berurah, again, I am hoping your S can marry my D:) So since she wants to have a lot of children and stay home, needs someone to make the salary...Just kidding. Promise.</p>
<p>alumother,</p>
<p>A big thumbs up for DATA!! <em>LOL</em> Thanks!</p>
<p>This is beginning to sound pretty exciting! My son has always had a desire to combine the two passions...his medical passions he's had since age 8, and the passion for debate/law that he began to develop in fifth grade. </p>
<p>
[quote]
They just want to see someone who knows what they don't know, got killer grades, can impress the CTO of the client they want to take public, and cleans up well.
[/quote]
Hey, I think they'll LOVE my son!! :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berurah, again, I am hoping your S can marry my D So since she wants to have a lot of children and stay home, needs someone to make the salary...Just kidding. Promise.
[/quote]
hee hee! Actually, we've done something like this...my dh paid off my loan for my masters while I stayed home and raised six kids for 18 years....And it's even more remarkable if you consider the fact that my dh came from a rather poor(ish) and unenlightened family which started charging him "rent" at his own home right after he graduated h.s. He never finished college, but look what he's done for our kids! :)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>