<p>DS is trying to decide between these schools U of M , MSU or Case Western.</p>
<p>He is pretty strong academically and has a 3.8 GPA (his school doesn't weight GPA), ACT 35, National Merit Finalist, National Honors Society, taking 6 APs this year and has 2 AP scores of 5 and one 4, 250+ hours of community service and various extra-curriculars; theater, vocal and orchestra participation.</p>
<p>He was accepted for U of M Engineering (he is interested in Biomedical Eng). He received no aid from U of M. </p>
<p>At MSU he was accepted into Lyman Briggs and invited to join the Honors College and has been offered a PA (professorial assistantship for freshman research). He is considering a pre-med track and is very interested in Parkinson's research. He has been given several scholarships at MSU and ultimately attending would be covered by his scholarships.</p>
<p>At Case Western he was accepted into Engineering and offered a full tuition scholarship. He wasn't a fan of the campus and the size of the school although he did love that the Cleveland Institute of Music was on campus as he is a vocalist and could take music lessons there.</p>
<p>He has stayed overnight at both U of M and MSU. While he prefers U of M's campus and of course Ann Arbor he is not against MSU and wonders about giving up the PA. </p>
<p>I am worried that he will be making a mistake not accepting admittance to U of M as it is considered a much stronger school then MSU and that name recognition can make the difference when he is considering grad school and applying. At the same time, if he is thinking about Pre-Med that, as we have been told, his GPA and MCAT scores will be the first things considered by grad/med schools.</p>
<p>I am beyond anxious about which way to go. Any input will be helpful. Thanks.</p>
<p>U of M for UG as location is awesome. Med. School is great also. Case is also a very good Med. School. Engineering is NOT a good major for pre-med though as it tends to lower college GPA. The only things that Med. Schools adcoms will consider are college GPA (should be 3.6+ as a min.) and MCAT score (preferrably 31+) and medically related EC’s will be also very important, and opportunites for them are absolutely everywhere.</p>
<p>This student does NOT sound at all sure of his future career or major…might be medicine, might be engineering…might might might.</p>
<p>All three of these schools have a variety of majors from which to choose, once he makes up his mind. Engineering is offered at all, and you really can major in anything for premed as long as you take the prerequisite science and math courses for med school…and then get a great GPA and MCAT score.</p>
<p>Are finances an issue? Are you instate for Michigan thus getting instate costs at both Michigan schools? </p>
<p>Let your son choose…I personally think all of his options are good ones for different reasons.</p>
<p>Why kids study engineering to become doctors is a mystery to me. I have a nephew who took this approach and never pursued medical school because his GPA was good for an engineering grad but insufficient for med school.</p>
<p>If your son wanted to stay in engineering with grad school/Phd as a option the MSU research would be a huge plus in getting full funding for the Phd.</p>
<p>Case is considered very strong (and very challenging) for engineers. It is also free for OP’s S. Location is not as great as U of M, but MSU is the worst if location is in question, anyway.</p>
<p>Hands down, U-M engineering is the best program out of the 3. That is, however, assuming you want to be an engineer. The recognition it gets from employers and grad schools is tremendous. My son is finishing up his first year at U-M engineering, and is working very hard, engaged and loving Ann Arbor and U of M. He can’t imagine being anywhere else. Grades are curved, though, so that the average for most classes is a B or B-. That means that half of the students are earning grades lower than that. Take that info for what it’s worth. Good luck.</p>
<p>A friend’s offspring chose Case (engineering) over Michigan (in-state) engineering and recently completed an advanced degree at Dartmouth. All 3 of these colleges can take the OP’s son as far as he wants to go.</p>
<p>“B” average is not enough for Med. School…just something to consider and maybe choose before going to UG (and choose UG accordingly). In regard to engineering itself, it is largely unimportant where one goes to UG. Most engineering companies hire locally, at least the ones in our city, including my H’s employer (H is an EE). If location is not the major consideration (Case is worse, but not horrible), I would just choose the free option as Case reputation for engineering is also great. However, the most important choice, I believe, is for major. You can choose engineering though even if Med. School is a plan. But you have no option of “B” average, period, it has to be as close as possible to all As.</p>
<p>Out of MSU and U of M, I would pick MSU only because he is being covered by scholarships. You can save the money you would have spent and put it towards grad school or other post-college plans. U of M is a better school, there is no denying that, but it is not 100k+ better over 4 years. </p>
<p>Additionally, he is guarenteed research experience at MSU through the PA. He is not guarenteed that at U of M. The Honors College at MSU offers a LOT of flexibility on classes and you’re the first to register which means your classes will never be full. These are huge advantages IMO.</p>
<p>Obviously, I’m biased. Also, I don’t know that much about Case. I do know people that have graduated from both MSU and U of M in engineering and I can’t really say one group of people is doing better than the other.</p>
<p>ETA: If he is interested in pre-med, has he looked into Lyman Briggs? It doesn’t offer engineering, if that is really what he wants to pursue, but it is great for the sciences.</p>
<p>No aid from U-M? That seems odd he didn’t at least get a merit scholarship with a 35 on his ACT. My son had the same score and he received the Regent’s for $1500. Maybe the GPA is considered for that (my son had a 4.0 UW). If he is that set on engineering then U-M hands down is the best of the 3. Only you can decide if it is worth the difference in cost though.</p>
<p>Kdog yup it was his GPA that didn’t qualify him for the Regents Scholarship. ACT didn’t help.</p>
<p>Sorry I left out a couple pieces of the puzzle. We are InState for Michigan. U of M would only cost room/board/books and of course incidentals. We have the rest covered. </p>
<p>Roman he did get into Lyman Briggs. When he initially applied he wasn’t sure about Engineering. We checked and he can start with Lyman Briggs and take intro Engineering courses while there which would allow him some flexibility in his freshman year.</p>
<p>Miami I know that GPA and MCAT are the important factors when applying for med school as does he. The thought process was if he didn’t get into med school that with an UG Eng degree it would afford him opportunities that a degree in Bio or similar would not.</p>
<p>Thumper you may be correct about his indecision. We were advised by admissions that if Engineering was a consideration (and it is) that it is much harder to transfer in then to transfer out. If he starts there, in Engineering, he will have the freshman courses covered for Engineering.</p>
<p>There is no question that UofM is a great school in a great location. It is also a very LARGE school, and that the lack of Honors College, or “PA” or what-have-you means he will have to work a lot harder to get the opportunities that will automatically be offered to him at MSU. If he is a go-getter, that might not be an issue. But if he isn’t, he might simply be lost at sea. This isn’t to say he won’t do well; only that the opportunities won’t come (as) easy. </p>
<p>I imagine in this situation you just lay out all the pros and cons you can think of, and let him choose. There’s no bad option.</p>
<p>(I’m imagine my two kids in this situation, and if I had to choose for them, I would choose MSU for one, and UofM for the other - different kids!)</p>
<p>I know that many think biomedE is sexy for a pre-med major, but it’s really not necessary. If he’s concerned that he might not do med school, then biomedE is very limiting as well. It’s one of the few E disciplines that pretty much requires that you get a grad degree to work. </p>
<p>If getting a high GPA will be more difficult at UMich, then I wouldn’t pick UMich (if med school is on the table). </p>
<p>My younger son is Chemical Engineering and pre-med and has a 4.0, so it is possible to have a high GPA in eng’g, but he goes to a mid-tier flagship, so any cutthroat nature or whatever isn’t going on </p>
<p>If MSU’s engineering offerings are very good, then why not go there to keep all options open?</p>
<p>What do you mean by saying that tuition at UMich is covered but the rest isn’t? What is covering the tuition?? A pre-paid?? what??</p>
<p>Mini we have MET for Michigan schools (Michigan Education Trust). It covers tuition but not room/board. </p>
<p>Thank you for your input. At MSU if Engineering was a consideration, he would pursue Chemical. They don’t have Biomedical Eng there at all. A few of the Profs there are doing some great Parkinson’s research as well.</p>
<p>One year ago my son was in a very similar situation - we are Michigan residents, and he was deciding between UM and MSU. My son knew he wanted to pursue engineering as a career and was awarded full tuition at MSU (36 ACT, 4.0 gpa, NMF, so very similar stats to your son). He was also awarded a nice engineering scholarship from UM, along with a couple of other nice scholarships that basically cover his tuition at UM. He felt, given the strength of UM’s College of Engineering that UM was too good to pass up, even though he really liked MSU also, and MSU seemed to really have WANTED him. It also seemed to us that there were more opportunities for hands-on work immediately available at MSU - he, too, was offered a professorial assistantship, honors college, etc. Had it been full-pay at UM (in-state, of course) v tuition-free at MSU, he would have chosen MSU, for sure. There are many great opportunities at state and it’s up to the student to take advantage of them. Free is free, and I think free undergrad, especially if he’s planning on graduate school, merits a good look. I know nothing about Case Western, so I can’t speak to that school.</p>
<p>I have a nephew who grew up in a UM family and is in his second year at MSU (in Lyman Briggs) and totally loves the school and his experiences there - he is thriving. Good luck with your son and his decision - I’m sure he’ll do great wherever he lands.</p>
<p>Tuition is covered…but not room and board. </p>
<p>It sounds like finances are not an issue with this choice. That being the case, as stated above, all of these schools have their good/bad things. Your son will likely be able to have a fulfilling future getting a degree from any of them.</p>
<p>If the cost difference is just room/board/incidentals between U of M and MSU Honors, I’d probably go with U of M for the highly regarded engineering program - especially since your son sounds like he prefers the campus there. That being said, I go to MSU/am in the honors college/had a PA. Particularly for science/engineering, kids get to do a lot of awesome research as part of the PA, and the honors college does have some great benefits. Especially if your son wants to keep his GPA competitive for something like med school, MSU might be a better, slightly less competitive option that would give him a leg up in getting in. I don’t know enough about Case to comment, but it is really a wash between the two schools - I would say it comes down to personal preference as both schools are potentially great options</p>